Irish song Limerick rake

Subject: Irish song Limerik rake
From: GUEST,Anna
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 11:08 AM

Agús fagaimid siúd mar atá sé

I found this sentence in the Irish song "The Limerik rake". What does it mean? Thanks Anna

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Troll
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 11:56 AM

It doesn't matter to me. (liberal translation)

troll

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 03:48 PM

The literal meaning is "and we'll leave that as it is". The sense is rouighly as Troll suggests.The nearest English idiom I can think of is "'nuff said!"

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 10 Feb 00 - 10:18 PM

Hi Anna!

When a song gets put into a book (or recorded by someone well known) it tends to get "standardized." "The Limerick Rake" was printed in Colm O Lochlainn's great bible, Irish Street Ballads.

I have seen a few quite old texts of this song that have the last line of each verse in English (e.g. "and I'd like to be twisting their garters.")... different each time. Just thought you might like to know that.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: GUEST,Anna
Date: 11 Feb 00 - 03:53 AM

Thanks to everybody. English is quite hard to understand for me, but gaelic is absolutely impossible.

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Brendy
Date: 12 Feb 00 - 12:23 AM

"And though being from the mountains, her stockings are white,
And I'd love to be tightening her garters."

Subject: Lyr add: FAGAIMID SIUD MAR ATA SE - Limerick rake
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 10:40 AM

I'm very surprised not to find lyrics for the Limerick Rake at Mudcat, though there are several other songs set to that tune available in the forum and the DT.

The lyrics are available several places on the web (though not with Brendy's line about the garters); see for instance the Prof's pages even if he does write "Limmerick" with an extra m. For guitar accompaniment, see also Haus de Internationalen Folklore

According to web sources, recordings include Tim Lyons, Patrick Galvin, Mick Maloney, Christy Moore (North & South), the Pogues, Ronnie Drew (The humour is on me now).

tune in songwrite format. At a French site it says the tune is called "An Caitín Bán"; I have that song in a book at home, so I'll have a look later. The source of this information appears to be Folksongs and ballads popular in Ireland (volume 2), Ossian Publications, 1979.

According to Vince Hearns , the music for this song found in both Petrie's Complete Collection and Joyce's "Irish Music and Song" under the title Fágamid siúd mar atá sé

Here is a set of lyrics for a mostly Irish-language version:

As published in Diarmaid Ó Muirithe, "An t-Amhrán Macarónach". Baile Átha Cliath (Dublin): An Clóchomhar Teo., 1980. Source:An Claisceadal IX, 9.

FÁGAIMID SIÚD MAR ATÁ SÉ

Is dóigh le gach brídeach tráth bhímse gan chéill
Nuair bhímse ag súgradh is ag radaireacht léi,
Is dóigh léi mé phósadh gan feoirling sa tsaol
Ach fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!

Tá cailín in Inis is cailín i gClár,
Agus cailín beag eile i mBaile na gCárr,
Ach i Baile na Caillí tá an cailín is fearr –
Ach fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!

I gCoradh na Finne tá an cailín deas fionn
Go bhfuil rince ina cosa agus reaic ar a ceann,
Siúd í mo bhean-sa dá siúlóinn an domhan,
Ach fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!

When I go to Rathkeal and I stand in the square
The girls all around me do gather and stare,
To some I give apples and others sweet cakes,
And I court them unknown to their parents.

Tá cailín in Eochaill is is eolach dom í,
Tá sí gan pósadh agus pósfadhsa í,
Tá coróin gheal im' phóca agus ólfaimid í,
Ach fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!

There's one from Askeaton and one from the Pike
Another from Ardagh, she's my heart's delight,
Though being from the mountains her stockings are white,
Ach fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!

The verses in Irish are in a similar vein, speaking of all the lovely colleens (cailín) in various towns.

QUESTION: Can anyone help establish dates for different versions of this song? For instance when was: An Claisceadal IX, 9 published, what source and date did Colm O'Loughlin have for The Limerick Rake, and what other early sources are there for this song in English or in Irish?

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Paddy Plastique
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 01:07 PM

The phrase 'fágaimid siúd mar atá sé!' also appears at the end of another
great song 'The Wife of the Bold Tenant Farmer'. Sorry - too lazy and afraid of
my slow internet access to look for it on the DT at the moment - worth tracking
down though.

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: OldPossum
Date: 29 Jul 02 - 01:13 PM

The Limerick Rake is indeed in the DT -

here.
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3602&Title=LIMERICK%20RAKE

Related thread: http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=17493.
(It's a different song with the same tune.)

The Dubliners did a great version of this song, with Ciaron Bourke singing the song unaccompanied. It is quite a spirited rendition, and includes the line about "twisting their garters" mentioned by Liam's Brother.

Also the song can be found in Folksongs & Ballads Popular in Ireland, vol. 2, ed. John Loesberg, Ossian Publications, 1980. This seems to be the source of the version at the French site mentioned by Philippa above, despite the wrong year and wrong page numbers given in its "Référence". It is in fact on pages 54-55. The text found on the French site (its pop-up ads are driving me nuts, by the way) is quite identical, apart from the occasional typing error. The notes of the book has the following to say:

THE LIMERICK RAKE: The tune is An Caitin Bán. The words are from a printed balladsheet of the last century. Another version is called The Galbally farmer.

John Loesberg's last comment ties in nicely with the Related thread I mention above.

The Prof's pages mentioned in Philippa's post is again quite identical to Loesberg's version (again with occasional typing errors - but at least they are different typing errors :-). The "Prof" has even copied John Loesberg's suggested guitar chords.

I too would like to learn more about the history of this song.

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Declan
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 05:34 AM

Philippa,

O Lochlainn cites his Mother who came from Limerick as the source of the tune and some words. The words he published seem to have been a composite version from a number of sources including the Journal of the (English) Folk song society and from ballad sheets. He also quotes some lines from his Grandfather who died in 1890. No other dates given in the notes. Its in the first volume of his book which I think was frist published in the 1930s.

Christy Moore's version of the song is on his first solo LP after leaving Planxty which is simply called Christy Moore (c 1974). He may have re-recorded it for North & South which was a much later album - I'm not sure.

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 04:00 PM

Thanks Declan. I think the version that "everybody" sings and publishes nowadays is as O'Loughlin published it. Have you got any information on dates of "An Claisceadal" publication?

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 06:13 PM

I think I've seen the "An Claisceadal" series in the Irish Traditional Music Archive. I'll check the dates when I get a chance.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 06:27 PM

1936. At least, that's the date on the book edition in ITMA. Originally, they were published on single sheets and sold at a penny each. I have most of them - but not, inevitably, An Caitín Bán. The editor, BTW, was, again, Colm O Lochlainn. Seamus Ennis set the music, as far as I know.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 30 Jul 02 - 06:33 PM

I hate to ask this! Could some kind soul point me to a phonetic version of "Agus fagaimid siud mar ata se"? (I would say: A-gus fah-guy-mid sigh-ud mar atta see.)I would like very much to find a clear description of Irish pronunciation. I am at a loss, entirely, to understand why Irish is so hard to pronounce. It seems to me to be because the Roman alphabet and English "pronunciation rules" are employed. It is like reading Lakota only it is much more difficult to grasp the "rules". Was Irish a written language before the Roman alphabet? Cherokee has it's own letters for certain sounds, does Irish?

CB

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Declan
Date: 31 Jul 02 - 05:17 AM

Og-gus fawg-wim-eed shoed(shoe as in footwear) mar athaw shay. There are different ways of pronouncing Irish depending on which dialect you speak (ie which part of the country you are from or learned to speak Irish in). There was a Gaelic script before the roman alphabet and this was taught in Irish schools until there was a standardisation on roman type and standardised spelling which came in in the late 50s early 60s.

In fact once you get to know the various sounds, Irish is more consistent to pronounce than english is - there aren't anomalies in pronouncing words like bough, tough, and ought. Its also harder to pronounce if the accents (fadas) are omitted, as they often are in typed prose or here on the internet.

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From:
Date: 01 Aug 02 - 04:08 AM

Would love the words to the old song off

O! Danny Boy

Thank You

Subject: RE: Limerick Rake , Fagaimid siúd mar atá sé
From: Felipa
Date: 21 May 03 - 04:12 PM

(there are other threads for Danny boy, Barbie - I hope you found what you were looking for)

There's a version of the Galbally Farmer called "The Spalpeen's Complaint or The Cranbally Farmer" in the PW Joyce Collection of Old Irish Music and Songs (published 1909). The tune is almost the same as the one I know to the Wife of the Bold Tenant Farmer, but without a chorus. See it at the Galbally Farmer thread

Joyce says this is the tune of Fagaimid siúd mar atá sé

It's not the tune most of us know for the Limerick Rake (and newer songs such as MacColl's Champion at Keeping them Rolling and Paxton's High Sheriff of Hazard)

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Brían
Date: 23 May 03 - 11:41 AM

I know this is probably not scholarly information but Dominic Behan in his book Ireland Sings says that the tune he uses for his song THE SEA AROUND US(The sea, oh the sea is the grádh geal mo chroí) is the the old melody of 'S FÁGAIMID SIÚD MAR ATÁ SÉ, I am assuming this is THE LIMERICK RAKE. I was listening to a recording of a set of jigs by The St. Peter Ceili Band on a CD titled Celtic Ceili. One of the jigs is named THEW GALBALLY. it is the same melody that Dominic used for his song. Is this also the tune you know THE BOLD TENANT FARMER, Felipa?

Brían

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: Felipa
Date: 23 May 03 - 04:38 PM

The tune I know for the Bold Tenant Farmer is on a ClancyBros recording, and - minus the chorus - in PW Joyce for the Cranbally farmer (see MMario's abc in Galbally farmer thread, link above). The tune I know for the Sea Around Us is as recorded by the Johnstons; I would need to check Dominic's book (next time I go to the library)to see what tune he published with the lyrics

Note that there is another thread specifally called "Tune of 'Limerick Rake'" Perhaps Brian and I should copy these last two messages onto that thread and continue the discussion there?

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerik rake
From: Brían
Date: 24 May 03 - 01:12 PM

The discussion regarding the last two postings has now moved here.

Brían

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: GUEST,Mitch
Date: 04 Oct 06 - 11:10 PM

man all i got to say is how can it get any cooler than this guy in the song. this guy is a character

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: GUEST,Marie
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 10:58 AM

What does Rake mean as in the " The Rakes of Mallow"

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:31 AM

What does Rake mean as in the " The Rakes of Mallow"

I always assumed it meant a guy who would f..., I mean, "have carnal knowledge of," anything from a sow to a bishop, and did.

Peter

Subject: RE: Irish song Limerick rake
From: Midchuck
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 11:38 AM

Note, also, that E. McColl used the melody for "Champion At Keepin' 'Em Rolling".

Then Ian Robb wrote a parody of THAT song, called "Champion At Drivin' 'Em Crazy".

And it goes on and on...

Peter