Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency

Subject: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:37 PM

According to this article, the Mayor of Cincinnati has declared a state of emergency after rioting broke out over the killing of a black man while running away from an arresting officer. He was apprently wanted for a misdemeanor charge.

I do not start this as the endless debate we've had before about cops, minorities and guns. I just think it is important enough to note and sad that this goes on, still, in this country. It seems we'll never learn.

Thanks for listening,

kat

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:41 PM

We need more info. Is there a site you can link us to, where we can hear a fuller account of the story?

Thanks,
Alex

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:42 PM

Oh, Katdarling, before we can learn we have to remember.....

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:43 PM

Alex, click on the link I put in, the "this article."

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: chip a
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:43 PM

Learn what? Are you assuming this to have been a murder? Or did you mean we should learn not to trash the property of others when we believe ourselves to have been wronged? I don't think either view is right here. What do you think? Just want you to clarify what you think should be learned and by who.

Peace,

Chip

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 03:59 PM

The story is obviously big here and I've been following it. Cincy has their share of this type of thing and race is an issue their as it is in many other places. Cincy is a broad mix of people covering perhaps a bit more ethnic and financial ground than many other midwestern cities of similar size. An on-running Klan protest comes up every year at Christmas when the KKK insists on putting a THEIR cross/tree with other decorations on Fountain Square.

The "Over the Rhine" section has a very mixed populace as it changes through renovations. A once fashionable neighborhood turned ghetto and now being "revived" it draws a high number of Yuppie drinkers and slum landlords who are now making a killing while displacing people with nowhere else to go and limited options.

Cincinnati is an incredibly diverse city, far more like New York than almost any other midwestern place that I can think of. The police force has had a very checkered past in recent years and this is not a first. Remeber that Jerry Springer was once a newscaster and the mayor here.....its a strange town. Extremely radical-liberal here and neo-nazi there........This is a sad situation, but if it was going to happen anywhere in the heartland, Cincinnati is the place.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Bert
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:14 PM

If people are being shot for minor traffic offences I do think that 'some sort' of protest is justified. Rioting is, of course, not the ideal answer. Perhaps someone can suggest a realistic recourse that would WORK for the people in this community.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:44 PM

Yeah, Bert, but rioting does get attention.....

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:44 PM

Yeah, Bert, but rioting does get attention.....

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:45 PM

Yeah, Bert, but rioting does get attention.....

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 04:48 PM

Maybe they should try triple posting instead..........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 05:03 PM

Well, it worked didn't it?

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 05:15 PM

Chip A...I am not assuming anything, nor do I think it is right for people to destroy other's property.

I meant when will we all learn that violence is not the answer? I mean when will color of skin not be an issue? when will we learn that we can't use force to "get along" etc. I really just meant when will we learn to be peaceFULL! And, here I am, from the tone of your posting, angry and ready to beat on a pillow or something, so maybe we will never, ever learn because we are just a fucking stupid violent species. Fuck if I know. Another man is dead and his death seems to have been avoidable, just like Amadou Dialo's.

Thanks, Spaw, for some explanations from the fringes of the homefront.

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 05:45 PM

I know nothing about the local Cinci issues, but it seems incredible to me that it is ever correct for a cop to shoot at a fleeing suspect. I understand firing when weapons are involved and a cop or a passerby's life is in danger ... but shooting for evasion of arrest? Surely something's wrong with that scenario.

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 05:58 PM

Its hard not to see the Diallo similarity and I would suggest that any of you who can, hear the "Ballad of Amadou Diallo" written by Larry Otway and performed on the Sorcha Dorcha CD. I had just been listening to it again the day this news originally broke.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 06:02 PM

Here's the lyrics.........

Centuries of Pain The Ballad of Amadou Diallo Lorcan Otway

Amadou was born, where humanity sprang from, In a land forced to give away its best. Where a foreigners hand, stole the riches from the land even tearing her children from her breast. Verdant forests cut down, and gold ripped from the ground and her diamonds sparkling in many a foreign crown Ancient wisdom denied, history buried beneath lies hers a legacy of centuries of pain.

He came to a land of gold, where his homelands wealth was sold, hoping he could find a place to make his way. By the sweat of his brow, he would make a life somehow, in a strange land far from family and friends. In the streets of New York, he set out to live his dreams though things where much different than his hopes still he felt he'd get by, not often wondering why, here his people found a legacy of pain.

Coming home one night, in his hallways stark white light, gunmen challenged him - he turned to ask them why. Many shots then blazed, Amadou stood amazed Why was he being murdered by these men? In that hallway where he died, once again many men lied, saying Amadou was reaching for a gun. But history is clear, so many die each year, This is still our nations legacy of pain

A mother came to take, her child back to lie in the soil from which humanity emerged. In a brave mothers tears, we saw the burden of the years, of a land forced to give away her best Amadu my son, what have these strangers done? Could they not see the son I held so dear? Where they blinded by their badge, or the color of your skin? or the legacy of centuries of pain?

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 06:52 PM

Roach's union said he feared for his life during the encounter.

Sounds like he was right to fear for his life.

Don't cops usually learn it's overkill (pun intended) to shoot somebody for resisting arrest on a misdemeanor charge? Don't they teach that in cop school?

Bad cop. No donut.

Rioting is not a rational response, it is an emotional response. Suppressed rage caused by systemic injustice can only stay suppressed so long. Sooner or later it will bubble to the surface. This doesn't justify vandalism or looting or other acts of rioting, but until we have been in a situation of systemic injustice for decades, it's a little hypocritical to go judging the rioters and assuming we're better people than they are.

Alex

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:04 PM

Well, it's the same old rub. What we can do is what WE can do. Today. In our own settings, with the stuff handed to us in our day as we live our lives. We can look at a "Them" and learn something from "Them" but in the end all the action is done by each of US.

It's a potent reminder to ask ourselves, "What more might I have done today... and (knowing that), what resolve do I bring to tomorrow?"

~S~

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: nutty
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 07:21 PM

If there were no guns there could be no shootings - just a thought

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:09 AM

we all know, or OUGHT to know, that building a police force is a hard thing to do...you need officers who have courage and ability to BE out on the street, but you want to avoid the ones who just like to carry a gun and intimidate people. The latter type apply a LOT, and many get by the psychological profiling and GET to carry that gun!...and they learn quickly how to justify whatever they do...and few police will criticize another officer.

I do NOT know if this incident was over-reaction or not, and if I were on a dark street where the bad guys did often have guns, I might make mistakes too--but there sure needs to be some way to weed out cops who abuse the badge BEFORE they do harm.

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Amergin
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:16 AM

People die from these "mistakes"

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: DougR
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:17 AM

I agree with Alex. It's certainly no donut.

DougR

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: Peg
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 12:23 AM

The mayor of Cincinnatti was just on Nightline. Very reasonable, articulate guy. There was also a black community leader who says he has confidence oin the mayor's ability to handle the situation; but who called upon the mayor for immediate action along the lines of ordering resignations of those involved and/or responsible (preseumably the chief of police etc.)

The footage of the last few says there was incredible. Cops shooting rubber bullets into crowds, using pepper spray, people looting, vandalizing, intimidating cops on horseback, unbelievable...like, as the mayor said, Beirut...

Subject: RE: Non-Music-Cincinnati State of Emergency
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 13 Apr 01 - 03:27 AM

Why can't police be armed with tranquilliser guns, rather than guns which kill? I've seen people using tranquilliser guns on rhinos and they work just fine on a charging rhino.