BS: Cutting off our own nose

Subject: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 01:33 PM

Last time Saddam cut off his nose to spite his face and set fire to the oil wells.
It took about a year to put them out.

His bio weapons were found by US troops and exploded with conventional explosives sending them into the sky and all over US troops.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED NEXT???

1 There was the gulf war syndrome that was called psychological

2 Back in the US a new disease spread like wildfire and was labeled
CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME



It looks like we will cut our own noses off again in spite of the last fiasco, lies and cover ups

Subject: RE: Cutting off our own nose
From: Tweed
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 01:57 PM

Why hell that's just crazy, Don. Of course we learned much from the last time around and I'm certain that when we find the rest of Saddam's goodies we'll incinerate them with some of them smallish size nuclear bombs that's out now and burn off any so-called syndromes. We are progressing at an amazing rate with this new government of ours at the helm. I look forward to each new day's developments. Never a dull moment with these guys!

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: khandu
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:03 PM

But the damned noses keep growing back!!!

k

Subject: RE: Cutting off our own nose
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:04 PM

PLEASE label your threads B.S>

To his credit Saddam Hussein has:
Invaded two countries
Missle attacked two other countries
Made an assination attempt on a U.S. president
Butchered his own people
Broke all the armitice accords which were signed in 1991
Provided a haven for terrorists
Provided capital funding for terrorists

Its all been OK with Americans as long as they did not kill more than 100 of our servicemen a year.

Bomb the World Trade Center but don't kill too many people. Try to blow up the Los Angeles Airport. Kill a couple of CIA people in a parking lot in Virginia. Blow up a barracks. Blow up an embassy. Attack a ship in harbor.

Yeah - I guess we will "cut off our own nose again" to save your pathetically sorry ass.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:19 PM

Hmm whazat phone number?
dunno oh well
That silly tricky memory of mine
makes old things seem new again

bzzt
whazthis channel?
oh History
"...In the Gulf war Saddam had one more card to play
He cut off his nose to spite his face setting fire to hundreds of oil wells.
It took over a year to put them out.
His bio weapons were found by US troops and exploded with conventional explosives sending them into the sky high above US troops...

bzzt

...This is CNN, all the news cleaned and pressed 24 hours a day

Whaatelszis on?

bzzt

PBS Front line...

Hmmm thats odd
oh yeah,
those bio warfare bunkers ...
...Ten years ago the gulf war syndrome was deemed psychological by all the top pentagon physicians

Meanwhile back in the US a new disease spread like wildfire and was labeled
CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME


Hmm I wonder if there is any connection...damn
there goes my cable connection again.

Maybe I should pop in a dvd
nah, I'm too tired.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Troll
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:24 PM

I believe that Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was around in the early '80's. In fact, it was referred to as "The Yuppie Disease". A bit too early for the Gulf War to take the blame.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: DougR
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 03:24 PM

Troll: will you please stop confusing Donuel with facts? He's having such a good time.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 06:47 PM

Now wait a minute, Troll is only guessing with that early 80's comment.
Patricia Doyle has made a career investigating the Gulf War syndrome, defending veterans who have it and finding the links to CFS concurrent with GWS.
If you want a hundred links I can give them
IF you want to merely dismiss with predjudice...
I wish you the best just the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 07:43 PM

I've had Chronic Fatigue Immune Disfunction Syndrome (and Fibromyalgia) since 1971. It's been around for a long time. The only reason it was called "Yuppy Flu" during the '80s was because, at that time, Yuppies were the only people who could afford to get a diagnosis (CFIDS requires a lot of testing to rule out other things).

Personally, I'm convinced that CFIDS is related to exposure to environmental contaminants (among other things), so it's entirely possible that there is a connection with CFIDS occurance among Gulf War veterans. I also wouldn't rule out the possibility that one or more bad batches of some sort of vaccine given to the military personnel could have caused some of the cases.

It's also true that the number of new cases of CFIDS has been increasing at an alarming rate in the last ten to twenty years. And those are just the ones that have been diagnosed. CFIDS tends to get mis-diagnosed a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 08:26 PM

The bio warfare agent that presents as CFS was developed long before the Gulf war. It was even carelessly tested in open prison populations here in the USA. The brucellis mycoplasma hybrids are nasty and known by few.
The National CFIDS Foundation
103 Aletha Rd, Needham Ma 02492
[phone]   Fax [phone]

These disabling weapons are considered better than fatal agents because they tie up resources to care for the survivors.

No you did not need a returning gulf war veteran to infect you since it was already domestically compromised years before.

You would think that veterans would have been diagnosed but cover ups and denials and foot dragging is the legacy of the VA as a corrupt interpretation of national security.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 08:56 PM

The crimes against humanity via world wide bio warfare efforts are just too horrific for words. It is a dangerous subject to talk about if you actually know something. The treachery has been justified by everything from the population explosion to "its a living".

We are living during the greatest pandemic to EVER infect mankind
but who even want to learn about the 1965 retrovirus warfare program on a Sunday night.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:31 PM

The French documentary film "The Secret Wars of Desert Storm" attributes Gulf War Syndrome to the use of recycled radioactive materials in US weaponry. (The GIs weren't told of this.)

Meaning that GWS is radiation poisoning, pure and simple. We nuked ourselves.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 09:17 PM

The UN is holding talks regarding the US use of depleted uranium as an illegal weapon of mass destruction.

The half life is millions of years which makes landmines look like spit wads.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: GUEST,Raedwulf
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 03:09 AM

I am open to correction, *but* as far as I know, the radiation output of depleted uranium is quite low. Like plutonium exposure, the issue is mostly chemical, not radiation, poisoning (plutonium is one of the most chemically poisonous substances known to man, again, AFAIK).

Depleted uranium was used extensively in the Balkans conflict. Yet again, AFAIK (*sigh*), the number of cases of GWS is not as propotionately high as in the Gulf, which it ought to be if radiation is the cause. If it is chemical effects instead, then I would expect the dry & dusty desert to throw up a greater proportion of cases as there is more likely be disturbance of particles, more airborne dust, etc.

I think the docs probably ought to be able to tell the difference 'twixt radiation sickness & CFIDS by now, so I'll once again disagree with michaelr. I doubt it is 'pure & simple' radiation sickness, though radiation may be one causative factor amongst others.

Last AFAIK... AFAIK, the inclusion of depleted uranium in AP shells is for its properties in terms of mass & penetration, not for any radiological or chemical effects (although if there are any in addition, I daresay the High Command regard that as a useful side-effect {rollseyes}). Depleted uranium is an armour penetration weapon & not used elsewhere (AFAIK) - don't chase red herrings just cos the word 'uranium' pops up.

As I say, I'm open to correction. I don't have hard facts & figures & haven't taken too much interest in the various conspiracy theories over whether GWS exists (yes I do think it's real, FWIW) &, if so, what causes it; but I used to know stuff about heavy elements & I tend to soak up odd fragments of data... *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 05:48 AM

I thought this was another thread about Michael Jackson.....

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Grab
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 08:52 AM

2. Incorrect - the affliction of Gulf War servicemen was and is called "Gulf War Syndrome". Taken from http://www.biofact.com/gulf/:-

Symptoms of Gulf War Illnesses (according to the American Legion) :-

- Chronic Fatigue
- Signs and symptoms involving skin (including skin rashes and unusual hair loss)
- Headache
- Muscle pain
- Neurologic signs or symptoms (nervous system disorders which could manifest themselves in numbness in one's arm, for instance)
- Neuropsychological signs or symptoms (including memory loss)
- Signs or symptoms involving upper or lower respiratory system
- Sleep disturbances
- Gastrointestinal signs or symptoms (including recurrent diarrhea and constipation)
- Cardiovascular signs or symptoms
- Menstrual disorders

In other words, chronic fatigue is *one* of the *symptoms* of Gulf War Syndrome, so GWS (whatever the cause is) may be diagnosed as CFS. But chronic fatigue is a frequent symptom of many conditions - consider how much enegery you had when you last had flu, for instance!

True Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a separate kettle of fish - it's also known as ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis). Troll is not guessing, he's spot-on right. ME/CFS has been around *much* longer than just since the Gulf War - check any websites about it. A friend of mine had to drop out of school with it in 1990.

Re Gulf War Syndrome, AFAIK there's still no sure cause of it. One popular theory is that the many vaccines servicemen had to take (to ward off possible bioweapon attacks) collectively overwhelmed the person's system, since no-one before or since had ever used so many vaccines together. I personally think this is quite likely - all vaccines have some side-effects, some of them long-term.

Donuel, as far as "the greatest pandemic etc", do you know *any* history? I suggest you look into The Black Death, the epidemics across the non-immune American Indian populations on the arrival of Westerners or any of the various flu epidemics before you make such claims.

Also please provide evidence on your last claim about depleted uranium being a "weapon of mass destruction" - I know there are talks about phasing it out due to health risks (IIRC the risk is due to the formation of dust particles which attack the lungs), but it's not to my knowledge been called a "weapon of mass destruction". These are nuclear, chemical or biological weapons designed to wipe out large quantities of people - DU certainly does not fall into this category. (Please don't say "well it's uranium so it's a nuke", bcos that would be completely incorrect.)

Re the "recycled nuclear products", that's DU. If a GI didn't know about tanks using DU projectiles, he's not doing his job! Note that DU is *only* used in armour-penetrating anti-tank rounds, not anywhere else. DU has a very low radiation level, but IIRC the particles have an effect on the lungs roughly like particles of cigarette smoke. I'm working from memory here, so if anyone has the definitive gen on this, please correct me.

Donuel, just a thought: what was the purpose of this thread?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: mooman
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 09:32 AM

For anyone interested, toxicity figure for various forms of uranium may be found at this link. Caveat, as with a lot of toxicological studies, most tests have been performed in animal models and cannot be directly extrapolated to humans.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:45 AM

Grab,

As one who has suffered from ME/CFS (also known as CFIDS) for more than thirty years, I can tell you that many of the symptoms you have listed for Gulf War Illness are also present with ME/CFS/CFIDS. So it doesn't surprise me at all that there is some confusion about who's got what, and what may have caused it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:49 AM

if you cut off your nose, you won't smell anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 01:18 PM

Facts are always an interesting item to throw into this kind of discussion. As a matter of general information, the US Congress, not the VA, decides, through legislation, what is and what is not a "service-connected" disability. The policy of the VA is to treat the illness, not to decide who is at fault, and the current policy statement is here.

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Art Thieme
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:19 PM

War is hell. Many hard things get done in wars that might lead to other things. Those things extend the war and the pain and the hell. Still, the idea is to get through and past the war---and those other repercussionary things as quickly as possible. Nobody expects a war to be pleasant. But we can all hope that it will be short---if it takes place. We can also hope that the healing time afterwards will not be too painful. If one loses limbs, it will be natural that some phantom pains will persist.   

May you live in interesting times. Yes, but it's still a curse.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: leprechaun
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:50 AM

If Donuel cuts off his nose, will he have to put more metal things in his eyebrow?

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 12:43 AM

Michael Jackson

Subject: RE: BS: Cutting off our own nose
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Jan 03 - 01:49 AM

Spooky!