BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?

Subject: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:31 PM

This morning former president Bill Clinton was told he needs heart bypass surgery. This is from CNN:

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Former President Bill Clinton will undergo heart bypass surgery as early as Saturday, sources tell CNN. Clinton was in New York-Presbyterian Hospital on Friday undergoing tests for chest discomfort.

A close friend of Clinton said the former president called him to say that his doctors had advised him that he needs bypass surgery. The friend told CNN that Clinton's condition is serious and the former president had told him he might have a quadruple bypass.

Clinton, 58, has been in good health with no known history of heart problems. A medical report in January of 2001 showed he had an above-normal cholesterol level and borderline high blood pressure. He checked into the hospital Thursday, the sources said, complaining of chest discomfort and fatigue. He went home Thursday and returned to the hospital Friday, the sources said.

During his presidency, Clinton a reputation for eating fast food meals. Since leaving office, Clinton has lost weight and he told talk show host Oprah Winfrey that he had gone on the South Beach diet.

This could introduce some distracting or energizing spin to the campaign season.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:35 PM

What a typo! Will a clone make that "heart" bypass surgery in the first line of my first post! Whew!

[done--skinny clone]

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:55 PM

Ex-Prez "Bubba" was at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Metairie (New Orleans suburb -- just blocks from my workplace) just yesterday or the day before, signing books in an tent set up in the parking lot.

No reports that he seemed ill or faint at the time, but perhaps the severe South Louisiana heat and humidity were a bit too much for his weakening heart(?)

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:11 PM

I posted this as the basis for a consideration to what the attention back on Clinton might do to impact or energize the Kerry campaign. Or as something that Bush's cronies might try to politicize?

SRS

I've always thought Bush is far more a "Bubba" than Clinton ever could be. Bush is the Good Ol' Boy who admits to not much reading, and who coasted through school with at best average level grades. As for health problems, too bad the pretzel wasn't bigger. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:41 PM

He's having by-pass surgery, SRS, there are probably hundreds even thousands of such operations done daily in the U. S. It's really not as though they are reading him the last rites you know. Bill will be fine and will live to chase women after a brief respite.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

Bypass surgery for somebody who is 58 and in reasonably good heath should be routine thing these days. Lets just wish him well and not read anything political into the proceedure.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:49 PM

.. and the Republicans will have plenty of black cocktail dresses ready as evidence!

DougR - was it really necessary to make a comment like that? And SillyRiverSage, as much as we can't stomach Bush, your crack about the pretzel was not appreciated.   I think we can solve our problems with the clowns in the White House without wishing them ill will. Shame on you both!

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:51 PM

I'm not suggesting a bad outcome. I'm noting that this brings Clinton back into the news when Kerry needs to dominate it, and when comparisons between the two are bound to move to the top of the page.

Interesting, though, how when people do criticise him today, the best they can do is take swipes at the sex scandal (such as it was) and the resulting impeachment that was stage-managed by anti-Clinton billionaire Richard Scaife and the ill-chosen self-serving prosecutor Kenneth Starr. Hillary was right. While it may not have been "vast," it was a right-wing conspiracy. And they'd love to smear a little of that on any democrat who might in any way appear on the scene when Clinton is around.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:52 PM

I was serious, Ron. I detest him that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:23 PM

What can I say. We each have different standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: GUEST,MarkS
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:26 PM

Hey SRS
Your seriousness and your eagerness to restate it again is a reason why more reasonable arguments tend to be dismissed - they tend to be lumped together by source with the more hyperbolic utterances - and sadly ignored.
I would respectfully suggest that if you want to have some influence leading to change, some moderation in rhetoric might be better.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: freightdawg
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:41 PM

To answer SRS' question, no, Bill Clinton's health concerns should have no effect on the campaign, either positive or negative. Both campaigns have come out with statements wishing former Pres. Clinton the best.

A funny thing about America. Given a couple of years to let the dust settle, most Americans come to regard our former presidents with honor. Witness what happened to Nixon. Granted, it took a lot longer for him, but then his transgressions were a lot bigger. By the time he passed most people, even his staunchest enemies, came to realize the positive work that he had accompished in the White House. I see Jimmy Carter viewed with much more respect now than the first four years he was out of office.

The point is, or should be, that a former president is in the hospital with a serious heart problem. While his antics are more fresh in our minds, that does not diminish the respect for the office that we as Americans should have.

I think everyone wishes former Pres. Clinton the best, except the most crass among us. I really do not care about them.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:44 PM

SRS, I pretty much agree with you on all fronts. I didn't mean to criticize Clinton by calling him "ex-Prez Bubba" -- I meant to use the nickname affectionately (and as hommage to David Letterman).

Everyone else, I agree that SRS would be advised to tone down her rhetoric *if* she were trying to persuade those not already on her side. However, I get the impression she's not interested in proseletyzing, only in expressing her outrage.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:06 PM

Most of the allegations of Clinton's prior sexual behavior were manufactured by operatives of the Republican Party and most of them found to be untrue. Monica is the only one that really held water because the pornographer Kenneth Starr decided to offer a course in sex education to the public including young children.

Bill just has to stay away from MacDonalds and not run laps to get Big Macs. He should recover quite well and will be the target of more Right-wing demagogues.

There was no conspiracy by the Right-wing. It was a blatant attack in the open. History will exonerate Bill.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:46 PM

MarkS, people who don't want to accept other's arguments will always find excuses (extreme rhetoric) to justify their positions. If I push back at Ron's father-voice, and suggest he's wrong, you should be able to detect that push and shove and weight it accordingly.

I do find Bush to be a blight upon the nation. I'm not alone in that--his position in office is an insult to the majority of Americans who legally and democratically elected Al Gore as president of the U.S. The wars, the loss of life in those wars, the lies, the raiding on the U.S. economy and environmental laws, the current precarious position of the U.S. in the world, are all thanks to Dubya. The gloves are off, we're to the last two months of the campaign. Ad nauseum this stuff is going to come at us. Were there a way to return Clinton to office, I'd vote for it in a heartbeat. Since there isn't, Kerry is going to have to articulate his positions and manage to make them forcefully enough to be heard and remembered over Bush's major machinery (all aimed at discrediting the rival since he has little good of his own to show for his time in office).

Since Clinton is a touchstone for many angry democrats, you can bet that this surgery and his prominence in the news for at least a few days can bring about any number of reactions. It can cast a shadow on what Kerry is trying to do as he forges ahead. (Would that it helped quiet Bush and Cheney and Rove, but I don't expect that).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:54 PM

What are you shoving SRS?? I think I need to take you about behind the woodshed and give you the whuppin you deserve. Wishing death on someone. Shame on you!! Did your momma and poppa raise you that way? Where is my switch??

Clinton's health will not factor into this. Ronald Reagan's death gave a momentary push to Bush, but it did not have any lasting effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:59 PM

Aw, Ron, maybe he'd be so badly crippled by that sharp salt that he'd have to leave office. But then we'd have been stuck with Cheney. The only good part of that is that he's unelectible as president for a second term.

Reagan brought about nostalgia, but he was out of the picture for a long time. Many of our first time voters now were babies when Reagan was in office and won't remember him. Clinton they will remember.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:59 PM

Here's an interesting bit of Republicanism for you:

Audience boos as Bush offers best wishes for Clinton's recovery
By Associated Press, 9/3/2004 13:57

WEST ALLIS, Wis. (AP) President Bush on Friday wished Bill Clinton ''best wishes for a swift and speedy recovery.''

''He's is in our thoughts and prayers,'' Bush said at a campaign rally.

Bush's audience of thousands in West Allis, Wis., booed. Bush did nothing to stop them.


Charming Republicans

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:05 PM

SRS, most first time voters would have been about 6 when he entered office and 14 when he left. I am guessing they won't remember much about Clinton either, except for the jokes about the BJ.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:23 PM

I wasn't picking on Bill, Ron. Gee, if I took offense at every cheap shot made about Bush here, I'd constantly be wringing my hands. I realize, of course, that Bush is "fair-game" but Clinton is hands off.

My point is, he seems to be healthy except for this problem, and in 99% of the cases, they are back on their feet in relatively little time.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:43 PM

I just had to add my worthless 2 cents to this---since Clinton is in the hospital my late wife was in. The care and the attention will be even better---and it is just great. Westchester Medical Center at Valhalla. This is not the only reason I empathize with him and his family---I know the feeling. Not liking Bush I add, rapidly, that were he in that position I would also feel for him. Has to do with the old cliche about "any life lost...." though I am sure Clinton will do just fine in this surgery. But, all surgeries are tension creating.

That said---I play tennis with a number of people who have had the surgery and they beat the pants off me. They are all older also.


Back to the politics.   Someone suggested that this draws attention back to him. Come on!!!   I doubt that his angiogram was faked. Are we so cynical that we can only admire dead Presidents who have been out of office for years and not care about a human being without placing an ominous reference to everything that happens.

Suffice it to say that all candidates will offer homilies and words of encouragement and shed crocodile tears as the go about their business.   The family will deal with the tension of surgery.   And, coming from Bush, I have to say it is pure PR---he who (I had read and interviewed the authors of The Bush Dynasty) who think he is one who demeaned the office of Pres. with his personal doings. The poster here who said that W is more of a Bubba has hit it right on the head.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:37 PM

As a hippy, I resented LBJ and Nixon. As a liberal, I detested Reagan. As an American, I hate and fear Bush. SRS understated the case. She's a gentle sort, after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 06:05 PM

Bugger. He has the same symptoms I have, and I've been poked and prodded by cardiac surgeons for a year now... they've finally decided, 8 months after the original exploratory op, to give me the op that should cure me (or turn me into a drooling, shambling wreck). The ramifications are this - he will have his op and be up chasing interns before I've got a date for mine.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Bill Clinton's health ramifications?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 06:37 PM

Well---if he does it shows the surgery was succesful.    Hope that will be your future also. Sincerely.


Bill Hahn