BS: History lost to Scrappers

Subject: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 05:28 PM

It is not just the gold pocket watches and wrist watches that are being destroyed for their precious metal content, it is sterling pieces. Recently I talked about how I bought a pair of WW II sterling bomber pilot wings. I got them off a guy that was going to scrap them for the sterling content. Now these belonged to a member of our greatest generation that fought in WW II in the air war. All they are worth to anyone is the price of the scrap silver. I could cry ... Going to donate them to the VFW display case

How about grandma's silver tea set she got for her wedding ... does that go too. Honestly our history is going off to the scrap yard.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 05:40 PM

And people can say I am being hard because today the economy is tanked .. Well we are all hurting, but our grandparents survived the great depression without selling grandma's silver or grandpa's watch or dads whatever. There are very few possessions that mean anything to me other than family ones. I would be distressed if someone sold my Martin after I take the dirt nap ... But our history even family history today is carted off to the scrap yard for a quick buck ...

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Rumncoke
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:13 PM

How about this?

STOLEN WAR MEMORIAL

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:20 PM

Yup... just happened to me. An heirloom that should have been "returned" to the family after a death and which meant a great deal to me was sold for less than it was worth by someone who did not even need what it was actually worth. I'd like to be there to see the looks on their faces when my will is read.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:32 PM

Dishonest jewellers melted down my entire collection of silver coins, gold jewelry and heirlooms. They bought it for pennies on the dollar and immediately destroyed the evidence.
Karma - I put a curse on the jewelry and coins and all who wear or profit from them. I wouldn't want any of it back now.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:33 PM

How about the guys that stole the sign off Auschwitz concentration camp

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:37 PM

I love reading the postings on ebay. They go like this, I inherited this set of dishes from my great aunt who got it from her aunt. They are over 130 years old and were made in England .. I am starting the bid at 10 dollars.

I read that shit and wanna scream

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:45 PM

I mean in WWII until late in the war after the advent of the P-38s the fighter escorts could not travel the entire mission with the bombers, the bomber crews were slaughtered without fighter escorts. It had the highest fatalities of any group in WWII. This guy wore those wings on every mission .. It was part of his uniform ... and some fucker sells it for 30 bucks in scrap silver. I could cry at least I salvage some small piece of history

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:55 PM

Maybe the scrappers would give me top buck for one of my great great uncles Metal of Honor from the civil war

O'Connell, Thomas, USN - Awarded: MOH - Civil War

Or my Uncle Dan's distinguished flying cross and Silver Star for WWII fighter combat ...

Good God

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:36 PM

We have all seen hard times. I live on a pension but there is no way I could ever sell a gold watch for a piece of paper that is worth less and less each day.Lunacy!

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:39 PM

Most of those buying old gold and silver as "scrap" are pretty savvy on values, and they sell or put at auction pieces that have value more than scrap. They depend on the seller's ignorance. Only pieces that lack buyer interest are scrapped.

For those who must sell, either because money is direly needed, or they have no way of keeping the items (antique furniture or the like), appraisal should be sought. Much information can be gleaned from the net. Reliable appraisers are the next step.

A buyer who resells must take up to 40 percent to cover expenses. Auction houses often take 30% as their fee.

I have a record of all items of any worth. When I go to to that great scrapyard, for those items not specifically mentioned in the will, family members will have some idea of values. Not much, but a few things of interest.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:04 PM

Same thing is happening in the old car hobby. Where will future hobbyists get parts for most old cars? Cash for clunkers was a joke, an unfunny joke.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:07 PM

Kendall makes a very good point on the cars also ... scrap metal prices up so high that people go to their barn and ditch the Studebaker for scrap when someone would love to restore it and keep it alive

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 03:37 AM

Dan, I think it was Oscar Wilde who wrote of one of his characters, "She knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

I have my grandfathers retirement, gold-plated watch, which he received after 50 years in a locomotive works. Worth very little in intrinsic value - but a mint to me. Sell it? Nah!

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 05:04 AM

I think Kendall's point is worth repeating. In the UK really quite interesting vehicles are vanishing. Under the recent "scrappage" scheme I believe I am right that a 1954 Triumph Mayflower in good running order and possibly the only remaining one in its colour was crushed - and some prewar cars were taken in too. Even my beloved 7 series Volvos (together with the 2 series the iconic Volvos) are getting quite rare, while the 124/125/132/Supermirafiori series Fiats they are hardly ever seen, and it is years since I saw a Fiat 130 or 130 coupe. The car is possibly the most potent symbol of the consumer society and history is being lost.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:20 AM

A very obscene picture: A Packard in the crusher. I can't watch.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

And old wooden clipper ships! Those that weren't lost at sea ended their days hauled off to some back marsh and burned so the scrap iron could be more readily salvaged.

Of course my great grandfather made his living collecting scrap and rags from the farm families outside of Cleveland, while selling them new jars, bottles, needles & thread, and hardware items. Back in Lithuania he had been trained as a saddle-maker but found little use for his talents in the part of the New World he washed up on.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Bettynh
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 01:03 PM

I find this totally unsettling

Meanwhile, I'm living in a history junkpile, trying valiantly to rehome things of history. Current problem children are:

History books - very heavy (so mailing is difficult and/or expensive), a bit damaged or incomplete (4 of 10 volumes, for example, some fraying or a bit water damaged) of various dates from 1853 to 1911. I already regret donating a set of 1939 encyclopedias. They're all interesting because they entomb the prejudices and common "knowledge" of their particular times. A (very) few are handsome enough to be worth a fair amount of cash. I just can't keep them - they would crumble away completely and I would never make real use of them in my lifetime. I would give them to anyone who would promise to scan them and make them availale online, but I don't know who that might be. Ditto for textbooks from the 1800s and a childrens' encyclopedia from 1911.

Some quilts - not at all well-made, frayed at the edges, with wonderful fabrics from the 40s and 50s. Also a slightly stained or frayed feedsack pillowcase. I need to find a collector who cares about the fabrics.

A pile of magazines and books related to B29s, experimental aircraft, and small jets. Dad was a designer (well, a draftsman, but he eventually earned veto power over engineers after 40 years) at GE. I'll probably keep the picture book of B29s with the note by Dad saying he saw a particular plane crash during the war.

The list seems endless. On tv I see "treasure hunters" alternating with people with shovels and dump trucks emptying out homes of "hoarders." It's confusing and depressing. I've had some success at yardsales (one guy who comes looking for old toys just found out Dad's place of work was where his uncle worked, and his mom grew up in my old home town - he'll take and keep memorobilia from the GE plant and those "anniversary of 250 years" souvenirs from that town), but it's slow making those connections.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:04 PM

The world would be crushed under all the objects created in past centuries, if they were kept.

I do agree that the "cash for clunkers" program was good only for car manufacturers and their employees. The older models use more gasoline, but throw in the materials and energy needed to make the new ones, and the environment equation favors keeping the "clunker."

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:04 PM

Yeah, Kendall. This looks like the car we had when I was a kid:   Packard.   (In fact, that kinda looks like my Dad.)

I live in a 100 year-old building on Seattle's Capitol Hill. Four stories, twenty apartments, and it became a co-op apartment building in 1948. This means that we all own shares in the building and our apartment is part of our share. (HERE).

Developers look hungrily at the building. They also look hungrily at several other houses and apartment buildings in this area. This was one of the first settled and lived-in areas in the city, about a five minute drive from downtown. Many old buildings, some great old mansions that used to be lived in by the biggies of Seattle's yesteryear.

And a great old Craftsman house across the street and down the block where (ironically) a well-known Seattle historian lived (the Hitchman house). Developers managed to buy it a couple of years ago with the intention of tearing it down and putting a six unit townhouse (style, 1950s motel modern) in its place. Neighbors managed to get a petition out and stopped it. We're trying to get some of the buildings in this area declared "Historic Landmarks," which would mean that tasteless developers can't touch them.

The same breed of buzzard is hovering over are all the old, historical buildings in Seattle's Pioneer Square.

One good thing about the real estate down-turn is that these bozos have backed off a bit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 05:40 PM

In Minnesota there was a gang of thieves who were stealing old cars and selling them to junkyards as scrap. They were deliberately selecting cars that didn't look like they were worth anything so as not to raise the suspicion of the junk dealers. They were taking advantage of a loophole in the law. Ordinarily, when you sell a car, you have to prove ownership by handing over a title—a sort of certificate of ownership. However, junk dealers were not required to obtain a title. I don't think this was just a mistake on the part of lawmakers; I think the intent was to allow parking-lot owners, towing companies, etc., to get rid of vehicles that were abandoned on private property by their owners, when the owners couldn't be found.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Big Ballad Singer
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:14 PM

The Archdiocese of Boston ordered a beautiful chapel, built in 1944, to be leveled after its land was sold to a university. The land was sold by the Archdiocese to raise money to pay for more legal fees surrounding their indictments for sex crimes.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I just wanted to point out that even some within the Church, at one time one of the last bastions of great art, music and literature, will chase the dollar at the expense of history, tradition and beauty.

You know what we get today, now that this generation is selling off all its heirlooms and family keepsakes? We get the plastic crap imported from Asia, the throwaway garbage that won't be worth anything 50 years from now, because we are acting today like we don't even WANT the responsibility of caring for anything worth more.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Bettynh
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 10:14 AM

BBS, that's a very dark vision of things. You need a {{{hug}}} I think. Some of my family heirlooms and keepsakes are in very good hands. Money was involved, yes, but my father's photo enlarger went to a 20 year old woman who remembered her grandfather's enlarger and nearly cried when she realized she could afford to replace it in her life. A young man appeared at my door eager to buy volumes of classical piano music from 1909. A Spanish lady has one of my grandmothers' teacups, English bone china and missing a saucer, but beautiful. There is a "collectable" market that's purely fashion and money-oriented, but there are people out there looking for things that are interesting, beautiful, well-made, honest, American...the list is extensive. Most have seen Walmart and are looking for something better.
Money and value are becoming totally disconnected. I have children that travel miles to be sure that their trash is recycled. They cherish different things than I do or than I expected (who would predict that they'd fight about inheriting the sewing machine?) There are studios producing glass, pottery, furniture, and other beautiful things that will be the treasures 50 years from now. And, perhaps, "grandma's teacup" - not my grandmother, but the head of a Spanish family, who cherished a yard sale find. History can be messy that way.

As for the Church, big business, big government - dispicable things happen in the name of these things, and there isn't a lot I can do about it. I can support local churches (a purely Protestant ethic, I know, but perhaps it's time for that again), local action groups, local farms, and local PEOPLE, individually, that are actually making sensible decisions. And I have hope they'll make and play the music I want to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Crowhugger
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 01:03 PM

The example set for too many kids these days is "disposability." The social norm now is to buy cheap, mass produced productsthat cannot last and cannot be repaired--clothes, toys, even most mugs nowadays only endure the light scraping caused by stirring with a spoon for a year or two before showing wear. So how will coming generations learn there IS such an option as taking care of things in the long term, much less learn how to do it?

Subject: RE: BS: History lost to Scrappers
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 01:13 PM

Old sewing machines in interesting cases have a fairly good market among two groups- hobbyists who want to sew thicker materials, and those who take out the guts and than use them as occasional tables.
Amazing what people use as decorative items.
"Pigs" (ceramic or metal bed or foot warmers), mouse traps (the antique cage type- they sell for up to $50), old toys (some worth in the thousands), and Britten or other discontinued toy soldiers etc.
Interesting bookends in bronze, Pullman or other RR hand towels (any RR memorabilia), old lamps, interesting signs.
You name it, even old fire extinguishers and gas pumps (I have been watching the 'picker' shows on TV).