BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda

Subject: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 11:28 AM

Right now, a major UN summit in Bali has just a few days left to hammer out an agreement on stopping catastrophic climate change. But instead of helping out, Canada is actually sabotaging the talks! On Saturday, experts gave us the global "fossil" award for being the worst country in the world on climate change.

There's still a few days left to save Canada's reputation -- and the climate -- but we need a massive democratic roar to remind our Prime Minister what Canada is all about, and stop him from blocking the world at Bali. Click below to sign the petition, which will be advertized with the number of signatures in an ad campaign across Canada this week. The goal is to get 25,000 people to sign in the next 3 days -- before the ads run. After you sign, forward this email to all your friends and family right away:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/another_canadian_climate_crime/4.php?cl=41900112

Prime Minister Harper's short-sighted, undemocratic and big oil-driven policy on climate change is damaging the world and destroying our image as a good country. We're supposed to be the nice guys, who try to do the right thing in the world.

The vast majority of Canadians are hopping mad on this issue -- we can win this. We just need to show Harper how serious we are that he change course. Sign up now and forward this email to everyone you know - we've got just 3 days to hit 25,000 signatures!

Thanks for you help!

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Bee
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:27 PM

Bobad:

While I agree that Harper's words and actions (as usual) are counterproductive and typically short sighted and mean minded, and I agree that Canada's record on climate change and pollution sucks, I'm not sure I want to be associated with this particular initiative.

Quote from link, my bolding:
International officials and experts have named Canada the worst country in the world on climate change as a result of PM Harper's climate plan: wreck any chance of an international agreement being reached at the UN summit in Bali this week.

PM Harper's short-sighted and corporate-driven policy on climate change has launched an attack on Canada's traditional role in the world. There's still a few days left to save our country, and the climate. Let's get a massive Canadian roar to remind our PM which country he's leading and what we stand for. Sign the petition, below calling on Harper to change Canada's position at the Bali summit, and we'll advertise the number of signatures in an ad campaign across Canada this week. Sign the petition now!

I looked for some indication of who Avaaz is, and discovered they appear to be a mostly US based (they claim otherwise) group started by MoveOn.org. There's no indication (although there may be) that any Canadians are involved in the organisation, so why are they referring to 'saving our country'? There's no link to what experts or who they are: although I'm sure such things are being said, I'd like to see for myself. I also doubt Canada is 'the worst country in the world on climate change', or at least I'd like to see that statement backed up. I'm betting China could give us a challenge on that front.

Why do they need a specific number of signatures to run an ad campaign? What good will an ad broadcast by a group mostly unknown in Canada do? Why aren't other Canadians doing as I do, which is to email our own politicians, in all parties, and phone local MPs' offices to state our views, an action I believe is more likely to have an effect than signing an online petition?

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:37 PM

The way I look at it is that it can't hurt and it just might help.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: bobad
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:50 PM

From Wiki:

AVAAZ.org is an international civic organization that promotes political action on issues such as climate change, human rights, and religious conflicts.[1] Its stated mission is to "ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making." The organization operates in thirteen languages, and claims more than one million members from every country in the world.[2]

Avaaz, which means "voice" or "song" in Hindi, Dari, Persian, and other languages, is managed by a team of campaigners working from Switzerland, Brazil, the United States, France, and the United Kingdom. They communicate with members via email, and employ campaigning tactics including online public petitions, videos, and email-your-leader tools.

At the 2007 G8 conference, Avaaz.org protested against the "U.S. administration (for its) 'wrecking tactics' and failure to agree to specific, binding global goals" when it came to the mitigation of global warming. At the event, Avaaz.org presented a petition signed by 355,000 people from 193 countries that supported its position. [3] Avaaz is also a co-organizer of the Global Day of Action for Burma along with Burma Campaign UK and Amnesty International. It has registered more than 750,000 signatures to a petition to the Chinese President Hu Jintao and the UN Security Council, urging them to "oppose a violent crackdown on the demonstrators" and "support genuine reconciliation and democracy".[4] Avaaz delivered this petition to UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown on October 15, 2007.[5] The Avaaz video Stop the Clash of Civilizations, created with Agit-Pop Productions, is the all-time second most discussed video in the YouTube "News and Politics" section.[6][7]

AVAAZ.org was co-founded by Res Publica, a global civic advocacy group and non-profit organization, and MoveOn, an online community that has pioneered internet advocacy in the United States. The organization is also supported by Service Employees International Union, a founding partner, and GetUp.org.au.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 09:40 PM

Actually, this is not simply a national issue.

Maybe if people from Canada and the U.S. decided to join forces once in awhile, something might actually change.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Beer
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:02 PM

This is a very complicated issue. However when it comes down to a simple answer it is are we going to save this planet or not. As much as I hate what is being said about Canada on this topic, I also appreciate Harper bucking on the issue unless the United States and China come on board. If these three could agree on something, would it be a beginning? I'm not a David Suzuki or anyone of importance. But like most I do feel a change in temperature and I don't like it.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:20 AM

I do not often agree with Stephen Harper. But on this issue I believe he is right. You cannot have any kind of meaningful change in this area of environment unless all countries agree to reduce emissions. Both China and India are huge polluters. They must come on board. If they are excluded what we have is a kind of two tier policy. That makes no sense to me...or to Mr. Harper, obviously.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:32 AM

If canada comes on board, China, India and the US are even further isolated, which might be a good thing.

otoh, Harper's a Taurus,(like Blair), and I haven't yet discovered how to persuade a Taurean to change their mind. Except , maybe, by the most superb job of proof, cos they hate being wrong. Mere fight just raises their resistance.


Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Bee
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 01:51 PM

I don't for one minute believe in astrology, but Harper is certainly the most obstinate PM we've had in a long, long time. He never lets go an idea once it is set in his head, he refuses to negotiate his position on any issue except behind closed doors, and then we have no clue what's happened. He is also secretive - I doubt his closest friends have a full understanding of what his personal opinions are on any issue, unless he has stated them outright and publicly.

He has already alienated most of the Atlantic voters, mostly through stubbornly refusing to come to terms with anybody here on any matter of local importance, and because he holds grudges, and when Stevie's got a grudge on against someone in a provincial government, the whole province is likely to suffer for it.

It's my estimate that his attitudes, more than his policies as evidenced so far, will lose him the next election, unless the other parties really, really fail to pull themselves together - which is entirely possible.

The best I can say about him is that he has not been as dreadful as I expected, and he looks remarkably like one of my favourite cousins, who is just as stubborn, but hasn't any power to make a nuisance of himself with. Maybe it's some gene-linked trait affecting pudgy brunette men.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 03:31 PM

or maybe cos he's a T......... , :-)

Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 12:50 AM

Bee - your entire post above could easily have referred to "Little Fascist Johnny" - who was also affectionately known to Aussies before acquiring that title as "Little D*ckhead Johnny"

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: danensis
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 04:19 PM

Perhaps the politicians should read the "Tragedy of the Commons":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

John

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: John O'L
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 05:47 PM

I don't believe in astrology either, but I am a Taurean, and autolycus is wrong wrong wrong.
(g)

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 05:42 PM

That's great news. Canada is saved. :-)

   Ivor

PS How do you persuade a Taurus?

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:14 PM

Perhaps the Canadian Broadcasting System, or whatever would be the appropriate media outlet should schedule round-the-clock showing of Al Gore's fantasy on TV. Make it so that no Canadian could avoid seeing the film. Then the population would likely put pressure on your government to toe the mark. (or maybe not.)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 06:26 PM

"Al Gore's fantasy"??!?!?!?!!?

Get serious.

I sincerely hope that you're being well paid by some oil company for shilling on behalf of economic forces so diamettrically opposed to the continuance of life on earth. Unless there's some money in it for you ~ substantial money ~ there's really no good reason to campaign against your own interests as a living organism.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: bobad
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 03:22 PM

Just received this e-mail:

Wow -

This morning, in a massive U-turn in the 11th hour of extended negotiations, the Harper government finally dropped its opposition to 2020 emissions targets among Kyoto countries , and a climate change agreement was reached in Bali!

Over 110,000 of us came together over the last 4 days and added our voices to a wave of popular outrage - we supported the ads that ran in Canadian papers and at the conference in Bali, called Harper and our MPs, and built the strength of the petitions, events, banners, and marches at the summit. And it all worked!

Click the link below to see a video message from Liberal leader Stephane Dion at Bali - Avaaz is a non-partisan group and the NDP and Green Party also deserve credit for opposing Harper, but Dion had an impassioned comment for us:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/another_canadian_climate_crime/1.php?cl=46858872

Lots of factors helped make this happen, especially a strong resolve and pressure from other countries. In teaming up with people around the globe to save our climate - including over 600,000 other Avaaz members who pushed their governments - we've defended Canada's proud tradition of doing the right thing in the world. The struggle is far from over, but this weekend is for celebrating!

With much joy and enormous respect for everyone who signed, forwarded, donated, called, lobbied and pitched in,

Ricken and the Avaaz team

PS - Here's a link to see other Avaaz campaigns and our work this year - http://www.avaaz.org/en/report_back_1/

And here's a Globe and Mail article on the Harper reversal at Bali:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071215.wbalidealyork1215/BNStory/International/home Why does this action change the world? Because we're going to make your 60 seconds count.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: DougR
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 05:01 PM

T'warnt just me that casts doubt on old Al's little movie. Seems a judge in Great Britain had some doubts too, PoppaGator, heard about that?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 07:48 PM

NO real progress.
The treaty was signed because limits were dropped. A two-year negotiating process is agreed on. More talk!
That global warming is real was agreed on, but no measures were agreed on or put in place.

Bali Climate Deal

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Peace
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 07:46 PM

Harper's stance on this has damaged Canada's international reputation very much. I think it cost him the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 08:02 PM

It helped him here in Calgary, a center of petroleum employment.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Beer
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 08:25 PM

Well he just lost my vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 01:37 AM

Harper never had my vote. He's a Christian Conservative that only does what Bush wants him to do.

If it weren't for New Guinea (or was it New Zealand) and as a result, the turn-about by the U.S., nothing would have been signed.

The whole world is saying to North America, "If you won't lead, get out of the way."

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 02:28 AM

Thanks too, to the youth who must and will save this planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 02:29 AM

forgot to include the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YJDT8pmLKk.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 02:33 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ynw79Xla0

This might work better.

Subject: RE: BS: Help Stop Harper's Anti-Climate Agenda
From: Bee
Date: 17 Dec 07 - 08:27 AM

I have been harping to my politicians on climate change issues for years, on the basis of preventing much hardship for my siblings' children, but given the rapid melting of the Arctic - least summer ice ever this past summer - I now think even those of us past middle age today are going to see vast changes, much sooner than many predict.