BS: Dark Dimensional matters

Subject: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 02:49 PM

About 10 years ago I sold an illustrated piece of poetic prose about our multiverse with some truthful yet humorous explanations* of our interaction with our relative universe parents and neighbors in other dimensions and how our universe began with two branes (parents) colliding and then giving birth to our new expanding space and matter. Some of this piece really was ahead of its time but there was no math to verify 11 dimensions so it was not cosmology proper, just a good introduction to the multiuniverse theory.

A notion I am entertaining now is that dark matter is indeed within its own dimension. Within that dimension gravity is a VERY powerful force in comparison to the weak way it interacts in our perceivable 4D universe.

How close is this dimension to ours? It is always and everywhere 10 to the minus 20 millimeters away. That is purdy durn close yet do consider that there are clumps of it that is far more dense than it is in our particular neighborhood. Should we (our solar system) pass through a thick strand of this dark matter the gravity could rearrange our planets and asteroid belts...again.

As our universe is continuing to accelerate in its expansion we are at the mercy of dark matter dimension/s as it pulls us with it. In our space gravity is one of the weakest forces there is but not in the dark universe. There, it is as strong as the strong electron magnetic force.

So I go out on a skinny limb and wonder if dark matter may form its own black holes and leave its own dimension over time while pulling on our dimesnsion les and less as it grows smaller and smaller. If it could then maybe our universe might slow its expansion and increase its longevity.

A sci fi fan might read about a race of advanced space doctors who undertake to expamnd the life of this universe dimension...complete with all the trade offs and repurcussions it might cause.


*(we are the child universe but we seldom call or see our parents etc.)

It will take physicists and modern day Jules Vernes alike to take the plunge into these new realms of understanding. Now I anxiously await the results of the biggest partical accelerator in the world to start up, without accidently making a mini black hole that could result in a class A supernova, to learn about which new questions we should be asking.




PS
There is a huge erupting gas nebula that apparently collided with an oxygen and hydrogen di sulfide rich galaxy millions of light years ago and is only now visible and "smellable" by spectrology to astronomers.

I hearby dub it the Spaw nebula.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 03:14 PM

You made my brain hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 04:01 PM

Dark dimensional matters...to you but not to me! Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 05:20 PM

To go out to the end of the limb until it breaks...

There ""might"" be a Psycho-dimensional link to this close but seperate invisible dimension within reach of human consciousness.
I have heard the exact same description of peculiar gnome like intelligent beings from dozens of people who have taken DMT.

What is certainly peculiar is the stark similarity of the detailed features of the beings by those who take that 5 minute journey.

Compared to LSD the DMT experience/hallucination is like everyone is watching the same video.

But be that as it may:

Now that the super gravity and 11 dimensional string theorists are all back on the same page I was wondering what they would think of this theoretical strong gravitational aspect of dark matter.

We know that galaxies spin with a uniform velocity because of the extra matter of dark matter. Without this factor galaxies would spin on the inside but rapidly lose effect toward the outer extent of its arms or rim.

If we could bottle some of this dark "gravity rich" matter and focus its effects we would have quite a nice little space craft.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 06:54 PM

I was *just* trying to explain dark matter to the kids... but this is not how I approached it!

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:00 PM

Donuel, you say, "I have heard the exact same description of peculiar gnome like intelligent beings from dozens of people who have taken DMT." How does it happen that you meet these people in such numbers? I know you are a hypnotist- is it in the course of such work?


By the way, from Wick: "When DMT is vaporized, the vapor produced is often felt to be very harsh on the lungs. According to a "Dose-response study of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in humans" by Rick Strassman "Dimethyltryptamine dose dependently elevated blood pressure, heart rate, pupil diameter, and rectal temperature, in addition to elevating blood concentrations of beta-endorphin, corticotropin, cortisol, and prolactin. Growth hormone blood levels rose equally in response to all doses of DMT, and melatonin levels were unaffected."[9]"

Can you imagine a television ad voice over? lol

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: john f weldon
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM

Been reading Philip Pullman lately... ...maybe his secret ID is Donuel?

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:53 PM

Although I can sorta understand a little smidgeon of what you are saying, I still think you should offer to write for Dr. Who!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM

eggzackly kat

I don't personally know the DMT experience but I have read about it and listened to people on the old Art Bell show that were surprised how uniform the harliquin like creatures are by different people...but that is pretty far out pipe dream stuff.


I'd tell the kids that most people have heard of dark matter and like the rest of us we don't truely know what it is.
Its for the kids to discover the answers to this riddle, if they are up to it.

I personally think that the dark energy is merely the super gravitational aspect of dark matter and that both share a dimension which gravity only weakly seeps into our universe, but even that is enough to keep pushing everything here farther and faster apart.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:00 PM

The best TV show for the kids to gain wonder about these parallel universe theories is a show on the discovery show titled
Parallel Universe.

IF you are interested I can make a dvd copy of the 1 hour show - with the commercials.

It will give you the illusion of a clear and simple understanding of the theory of everything including the dimensions we can't point to as a direction in our world and what came before the big bang.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:00 PM

I am with Sorcha - my brain cells are rattling ! BOTH of them !

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:34 PM

Oh Yeah the anti amine inhibitor qualities of DMT is similar to what Amazonian shaman make when they brew ayahuquesca.
Perhaps you have seen anthropological films of natives blowing powder through great long reeds into someone's nostril. That is usually ayahuquesca. DMT in this country is not legal but available through most plant stores since it is found in great concentration in a common ornamental grass. One simply turns the grass into oil and let it dry before smoking. They have called it the businessman's acid trip because it is over in 5 minutes but unlike acid one will have no contact with our common reality so a caretaker would be required to monitor those 5 minutes.
The reported harliquin gnomes are said to be both benign yet annoyed with the tripper's presence.
THose who use the ayahuquesca claim that they gain strong bonds with the spirit of existing life forms such as a tree or hawk which seems to have more attachment to this world than DMT.

Kids- NEVER do any of these things at home, but I bet it is probably safer in a monitored situation than taking Paxil without supervision, or any number of modern anti depresants which list as a side effect - suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:37 PM

admin
feel free to delete this thread etc. if this violates discussing what amounts to illegal drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM

A lovely hypothesis, Don, but how does a universe where gravity is a strong enough force to have consequence on the microscale level avoid collapsing into a singularity? Our own universe occupies space because the electro-weak force, which bonds matter into atoms, has both attractant and repellent aspects. The same force which causes an electron to revolve around an atomic nucleus (attraction) keeps the individual protons in that nucleus from actually touching each other (repulsion). This means that all things in our universe, other than extremely dense bodies like black holes and neutron stars, are mostly space with a small percentage of actual matter.

Gravitation is only attractive. If the force of gravity were stronger than the electro-weak force, protons would be forced into direct contact with each other, resulting in a universe of all matter, no empty space. In other words, a singularity. For a universe with that strong a gravitational force to have a spatial dimension, (and your hypothesis seems to require that it have a spatial dimension, else it couldn't react with our universe on a large-scale basis) there would have to be a corresponding repellent aspect to gravity. In other words, anti-gravity.

If there were cross-dimensional leakage of hypergravitational force, it seems to me that it would be accompanied by a corresponding leakage of anti-gravitational force, and nobody's ever detected anything resembling anti-gravity in our universe.

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 11:21 PM

I understand so little of what is being discussed that I picture a strong-gravity universe as pulling us and pushing us around like so many magnetized bars. *g* We would require metal plates to keep us in place...

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 01:35 AM

Planck's constant, a heuristically defined minimum energy level, is why (in respect of electrons and their corespondent protons in the nucleus) every molecule does not become a singularity. Just as in the orbits of large masses like Earth around the sun and the Moon around the earth, the balance between attraction and angular momentum describes the balance of persistent apparent reality.

This however begs the question of why space honors the discrete intervals of quanta and allows the eigenstates to appear only at energy levels equivalent to specific and particular spatial distances.

This implies (to me) that our present crashing blind spot has to do with the nature of the construction (if that is the word) of space itself, and the spations that constitute it. The mathematics of spations is entirely, as yet, undetermined, but there is surely something to be known there.Spationics will be to the 21st and 22d centuries what electronics was to the 20th and 21st.


A


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 11:03 AM

Well, all righty...maybe the Chianti was a partial contributor to that last post, but I like its style.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 11:25 AM

Thanks for the offer, Donuel. I remember the program; found it interesting and very challenging. I esp. liked This Fellow. I will keep it in mind when Morgan gets a little older.

katwithheadstillspinningabit:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 10:23 PM

Michiu is the man.
He took up the public personna of cosmology after Carl died.

I'm talking our of my hat when it comes to this strong gravitational dimension in our universe.
This hypothetical strong gravity dimension in which dark energy and dark matter lives could also have incredible anti gravitational properties.

What we know for now is that dark energy does push us around as well as adding gravity to our visible galaxies. We also know we are acceleraing in our expansion as if there is a great attractor "out there" or a anti gravitational dimension among us is pushing us out as space itself expands.

Amos thinks of this in his spacionic speculation.

Those color added photos of supposed dark matter passing through gigantic clouds of visible matter may show that my idea is way off base since no dynamic interaction seems at play in the photo.

Of course another way of looking at this expansion of space is to think of it as OUR 3D dimensions are SHRinking relative to the other spatial dimensions.

Yikes were not accelerating apart from all other galaxies?!! but rather shrinking in place !!!???

ow now my head hurts ;<}

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 10:38 PM

by jove I think ee's got it. we're Shhhrriiiinnnnnkiing

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:22 PM

Well, the physical universe may be shrinking AROUND us, causing all kinds of spiritual malaise and perturbations, but we, ourselves, are not shrinking.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 09:00 AM

Whereas particles, as well all know, have mass (or they wouldn't be particles) and mass is essentially whomped energy, the nature of spations is enfoldment of dimension. Enfolded dimensions are born from whomped viewpoints abandoned over the millenia, you see. Springing an enfolded dimensional matrix, or spation, is more powerful than a nuclear locomotive. Whap!!! New space and a billion old viewpoints restored, whoosh.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:53 AM

The funny thing about going back and reading a post like that is when you realize you are writing just like a Marvel or Batman comic book.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:27 PM

Dear Dr. Cosmo

Aren't you just using the word spacions while others use the word strings when speaking of spatial dimensions?

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 03:29 PM

Well, I coined the term back when string theory had hardly been articulated. For one.

For another, I don't know that strings are envisioned as doing what I conceive spacions are/do. The idea behind string theory is that the constituents of reality are strings of extremely small size (possibly of the order of the Planck length, about 10−35 m) which vibrate at specific resonant frequencies.[7] Thus, any particle should be thought of as a tiny vibrating object, rather than as a point. This object can vibrate in different modes (just as a guitar string can produce different notes), with every mode appearing as a different particle (electron, photon, etc.).

But the relationship between these strings and space itself is not well defined. The strings are postulated to oscillate in space due to contraction (when left to themselves) and expansion (due to conserrvation of energy).

But it looks to me that the theorists in this field are, as we all do, falling in to the ready-made illusion of spatiality -- about which we know so little. We know it is sensitive to mass. We know it effects viewpoints, because it provides them a sense of dimensionality, and if their tolerance of space is exceeded they get most queasy (if too much) or claustrophobic (if too little). Most particles I have ever heard of are dumbly coimpliant with space, just as mass is with gravity, which may be nothing more than wrapped space.

The point is that we are fish wondering if there is such a thing as water. We are hardly suited for the kind of knowing -- let alone measuring -- that we would need to be able to separate it out from the instant concomitant of being at all. If we COULD, some remrkable things might become possible, such as the penetration of "hyperspace" in some manner. But we really have no notion, of any useful sort, of what the stuff is, let alone what "hyper" really means.


Well, at least that I am familiar with, which is only a very small fraction of things.

:D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 03:49 PM

HEre's the thing. THere are multiple string theories/ For example:

"String theories

Type, Spacetime dimensions, Details

Bosonic, 26 ,Only bosons, no fermions, meaning only forces, no matter, with both open and closed strings; major flaw: a particle with imaginary mass, called the tachyon, representing an instability in the theory.

I, 10 ,Supersymmetry between forces and matter, with both open and closed strings; no tachyon; group symmetry is SO(32)

IIA, 10 ,Supersymmetry between forces and matter, with closed strings and open strings bound to D-branes; no tachyon; massless fermions spin both ways (achiral)

IIB, 10 ,Supersymmetry between forces and matter, with closed strings and open strings bound to D-branes; no tachyon; massless fermions only spin one way (chiral)

HO, 10 ,Supersymmetry between forces and matter, with closed strings only; no tachyon; heterotic, meaning right moving and left moving strings differ; group symmetry is SO(32)

HE, 10 ,Supersymmetry between forces and matter, with closed strings only; no tachyon; heterotic, meaning right moving and left moving strings differ; group symmetry is E8×E8 "

Tachyons are a bit imponderable to my way of thinking, but I don't know much, anyway. THere sure is a lot to clarify in all this stuff... sigh...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dark Dimensional matters
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 05:44 AM

"But the relationship between these strings and space itself is not well defined."

The relationship between cosmology and psychotropic drugs isn't "well defined" either!!