BS: Ontario Prostitution Law

Subject: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 12:33 PM

The laws of Ontario have taken a step out of the dark ages today! Prostitution is in itself not illegal in Canada but just about everything connected to it is. The top Ontario court deserves praise for today's wise decision!
It will enable many to operate from the safety of their home but will still subject the pimps to prosecution. It is too bad that many people have been forced by archaic laws into the hands and under the control of pimps in the past. It will also allow some of the most disenfranchised to be treated under the law with equality and some degree of increased safety.
In no way do I recomend this as a way of life for anyone but its existance should at least be treated with some degree of humanity!
Now the ball is in the court of the Ontario government to decide if they appeal to the country's supreme court.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 12:41 PM

Well I don't live in Canada and I certainly don't condone Prostitution, however, it existed through the course of mankind and will exist law or no law. I applaud anything the keeps any woman safer and less subject to controlling criminal organizations.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 01:13 PM

I intended to attach this link:
CBC News

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 01:19 PM

I'm on the same page, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 01:47 PM

It's the world's second oldest profession.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 02:52 PM

Just FYI: a social worker in my city recently wrote about prostitution here. The typical new prostitute is "a 13-year-old girl of color."

That fits right in with something I read elsewhere - that all around the world, any society's main victims are minority females.

Any society that doesn't face this reality is kidding itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:38 PM

13... sniff.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 03:41 PM

Bruce, that no doudt raises the question as to what is the oldest? My guess is torn between apple picker and folk singer.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Beer
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:09 PM

I was just wondering the same thing Sandy.
Adrien

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 04:30 PM

Yes, gnu, it's sad. I applaud any lawmakers who try to do anything intelligent about prostitution. Obviously the old-fashioned approach was no good.

What bothers me is a different aspect - the public's fascination with characters like "The Godfather" (movie) or the Sopranos (TV show). If such productions showed the horrible ways such people get their money, their glamour would disappear immediately.

For example, in an article about health insurance, my newspaper mentioned a four-year-old in foster care. She was in it because her mother had sold her into prostitution so she could have money to buy drugs. God bless the people who saved that child from that.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:19 PM

This may sound sad as well, but, fact is, pimping is big business in Canada (everywhere?) and lawyers are paid big money to keep pimps in business. Payoffs to local police and politicians keep the scum in business. If this case is decided once and for all, that crap will still go on, but it will be less and any "less" is a good thing.

I just wish a way could be found to get rid of strip clubs. We all know what they are and we all know what they really do. It's sickening. I've been, only to watch, when I was young and stupid. Did a lot of stupid things when I didn't know what I was doing. I think part of the reason I went was what is called "stupid male bonding". >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:20 PM

I'm thinking politician...they do the screwing without being giving something in return.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:35 PM

The typical new prostitute is "a 13-year-old girl of color."

All the more reason for sex work to be legal and regulated -- for the health and safety of everyone concerned and to eliminate the pimps and the abuse and exploitation of women and children.

And allow sex workers to unionize -- the I.W.W. is, I believe, the only union concerned with the rights and protection of sex workers.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: number 6
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:43 PM

Well ... it's a tiny, tiny step forward. It doesn't mean they are completely safe ... the business is now off the streets but the 13 year old sex slaves will be kept locked up for trade in dirty bawdy houses.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but there is no mention of the monitoring of the safety and health (mental and physical) of the these women. To me that is the real issue.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 12 - 07:58 PM

sIx... I agree, but that is hard to "legislate" and "enforce'. Hopefully, these prostitutes will engage in the same type of practices as are used in legal brothels in the US. And, I hope they do the same with their customers.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 03:22 PM

I want to know this. If the gov't can find you when you don't file your taxes, how come nobody can ask "Whatever happened to ______" (insert name of kid who is not in any school system.)

How can kids this young disappear without ANYBODY (grandparent, cousin, friend, teacher, neighbor) sounding the alarm?

I think it would be more effective to activate decent people than to control bad people.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 04:30 PM

Teachers do ask after children who were there Tuesday but left Wednesday. Sounding the alarm is the task of people charged with that responsibility (principals, superintendents) or their designated 'drivers'. All too often the authorities (courts, social services, police) pass the buck around and the plight of the kid is lost in the bureaucratic paper chase. The penultimate responsibility for the child rests with the parents (unless orders from the state dictate otherwise).


Missing children:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/missingchildren/

That is an excellent view of the situation and one might expect the figures to be ten times that across the board in the US given that the US has ten times the population Canada does.

No matter how ya slice it, it's a helluva problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 09:21 AM

The characterisation that "The typical new prostitute is a 13-year-old girl of color might be taken as reflecting some bias, although it's close enough to accurate to be taken as "true enough."

Observation (with no research to support it) suggests that in my area the main "common characteristic" among "street workers" (the only ones overtly visible) is drug addiction, with the majority of those seen being of "mature age" and unemployable because of their addictions.

In most parts of the world, recent expostulations suggest that the typical new prostitute is a girl or young woman lured by an advertisement promising "good paying jobs" in a foreign country where they won't know the language, customs or legal protections, and can be kept in a state of slavery to "work off the costs of transportation - if they live that long."

In large part, the "customers" for these sex-slaves come from ethnic settlements, sometimes from among those legally in the new country who do have at least language in common; but there is good evidence that they're also "sold or rented" to the most perverse and depraved among more general populations.

Runaway (or more accurately "lured away?") children are exceedingly vulnerable to being forced into prostitution; but confirmable statistics are difficult to find on just how many of such kids are actually "active" as sex workers at a given time.

There is a vast difference between vulnerable persons forced into slavery for sex, and those who willingly decide to engage in sexual services as a business/profession, so maybe it's really two separate subjects. The change in Canadian law doesn't do much for the slaves, although it's probably a good thing (if it holds up) for the willing workers.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 03:16 PM

Indeed, John. But the slavery issue may never be able to be taken care of. Sad, but true.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 03:34 PM

I should imagine that hardly any sex-workers do this job because they want to. Probably 99% of them are more or less obliged to prostitute themselves for financial reasons. There are some (I watched a TV programme about this a few years ago) 'high class' call-girls who are perfectly content to earn money this way. Those who would prefer a different life should get all the help they need to achieve this aim. First step is to bring them all under non-judgemental State protection, control and monitoring of their health and their safety. Then counselling and support to address their problems and addictions etc. I pity from my heart any woman who has sex unwillingly and under duress, to make a living. All women are my sisters.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 05:59 PM

Seems to be a recurring theme about prostitutes "needing" to prostitute themselves. Fact is, it's an EXTREMELY lucrative career. A few thousand bucks a week ain't chump change. If I was still young and pretty, I would consider it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 06:28 PM

All women are my sisters too, Eliza. And that is for sure. (I'm male.)

Prostitution, as gnu says, is an extremely lucrative career...if a woman has the smarts to discreetly manage it herself, and knows how to protect herself, then she can make a tremendous amount of money. Some do. And they do it quite willingly.

Those are cases entirely apart from the desperate homeless girls who end up being forced into a life of prostitution by drug-dealing, violent pimps.

The case of the willing prostitute is not a crime at all, in my opinion, it's a career choice (and in a certain sense, it's a public service). The latter IS a terrible crime on the part of the pimp, and those girls need rescuing...and the pimps need to be penalized to the full extent of the law.

The best way to protect women against pimps is to legalize prostitution and carefully regulate it in such a way as to fully protect those women from violence, intimidation, and disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 07:00 PM

For the vast majority, AFAIK, prostitution is not an extremely (or even substantially) lucrative career.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 07:23 PM

Richard... your "arguement"??? is not germain to the discussion unless I just DO NOT "GET IT"???. Good strippers make 3 large a week. Fact is, if prostitutes have the protection of the law, the part of the prostitution trade that preys on the young and the weak (I assume that's what you were referring to) will be crippled. And THAT is a good thing.

I know a guy who was struck by a car while on a motorcycle. Lost his left leg. Got a big whack of cash. He has two "cleaning ladies" come in twice a week. They clean the WHOLE HOUSE. They have a very successful cleaning business and it's legal and they are "clean" and demand that of all of the clients they clean. Safe cleaning only.

Beats self-cleaning but it costs. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 10:43 PM

And there you have it, in a nutshell, gnu. Why the hell a society thinks it has any business telling 2 grown human beings whether or not they can privately and of their own free will strike a financial agreement over a sexual liason is beyond me...!

It's their business, and no one else's.

I'm not inclined to do anything like that myself...primarily because I truly want to be loved for myself...and not for a fistful of money. My own self-image and my own sense of self-worth matters a hell of a lot to me when it comes to that. I'd sure hate to think I had to PAY someone else to get intimate with me! Yuck. As the Beatles said, "money can't buy me love".

And besides....I'm cheap!!! ;-D I am half-Scottish, after all. I have to honour the family code regarding frivolous expenditures! NO friggin' WAY I will pay money for sex!

But I have NO business at all judging or condemning another individual who is not bothered by doing so. None whatsoever. That's his business, not mine. And it's her business too. It's up to them. Society should leave them alone, because they are not hurting anyone.

A pimp, on the other hand, IS hurting people. Those bastards should be put out of business, and right fast! The fastest way to put them out of business is to make regulated prostitution legal and safe for the workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: number 6
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 11:57 PM

"The best way to protect women against pimps is to legalize prostitution and carefully regulate it in such a way as to fully protect those women from violence, intimidation, and disease"

agreed .... just legalizing prostitution as the provincial government did is not the only answer.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Ontario Prostitution Law
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 29 Mar 12 - 08:38 AM

I fully agree with LH and others; those independent women who are perfectly at ease with their chosen profession are not my concern. They are entitled to do what they wish as consenting adults. No doubt they make a great deal of money and consider the job acceptable and lucrative. It's the ones who are vulnerable, in desperate straits, in a position of powerlessness who need help and protection. In UK nearly every prostitute is an addict or is supporting an addict. Their lives are not free, they are often attacked or even murdered. Their health is usually lamentable. I sometimes wonder why men choose to employ these women, as they put their own well-being at risk too. Regulation and control would benefit everybody concerned.