BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 10:53 AM

I've been poking around through old gardening threads, getting some helpful information and a few chuckles. There was a story from Joybell about falling through a chair (scroll down, this link is to the entire thread) and advice about keeping bermuda grass from flower beds.

I also found a good one for daylilies.

I started looking because I'm dying to see some of these flowers Janie has seeds for and I'm sure she has put photos up on one of the photo sharing sites. I was going to capture something for the Mudcat Gardeners, get a page started. No luck finding those links, but I remember what looked like a great English garden in front of a Victorian house. Do you have any of those you would like to add, or can send a link to the photo share site?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:57 PM

Been watering all morning and it's now too hot to be out there for any extended period of time... 102.4 yesterday at 5:30 pm... It's allready 97 and it isn't even 1:00 yet...

Hydrangeas are all startin' to bloom... Don't ask what varieties... The P-Vine is the hydrengea nut... Must have 20 different ones...

The second patch of poppies are blooming... These are red... Not too sure what the last ones are but should know within a few days...

Won't they just reseed, Janie??? Seems they would???

Nap time...

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 01:32 PM

That link went to one of Janie's posts, I thought it was to the top of the thread. Here is Joybell's adventure.

Here in Texas we're usually the ones with the extreme heat. I don't miss it, but I do sympathize, Bobert. It's hard on people and plants. I'm sure we'll get our shot at some of that toasty weather later on, and it tends to be sustained over the course of several weeks. Make yourself a jar of sun tea and find a spot of deep shade and watch the world go by for a little while.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM

Bobert, it looks like North Texas is joining you in the oven. I'm going out now (8:30) to mow my lawn. I usually wait and do it at lunch time (I telecommute, so my hours are flexible, but I still try to break the day up along the lines my co-workers use).

100 today, at least. This is where xeriscape gardening shows it's true strength.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jun 08 - 10:13 AM

DE spritzed on a few plants the ants have been visiting heavily, and instant grits scattered where I want to kill fire ants.

I took a large under-planter dish and filled it with water in the veggie garden, then set a brick (they have four or five holes to help grip the mortar) in the middle, stapled my trichogramma wasp card to the stake again and stuck that upright from a hole in the brick. I have yet to see ants voluntarily swim.

The cannas that I hated in the front of my front porch are going gangbusters at the side of the house where there was nothing else growing and where I transplanted them. A hummingbird and I startled each other this morning as I hosed the remainder of the dry molasses off of the leaves from a few days ago. I broadcast it when it looked like rain (it was sprinkling enough that the molasses stuck to the leaves). They are robust and beginning to bloom. Once a weed in front yard, they're lovely at the side of the house!

Janie, Martha Stewart Living in the July 2008 issue features a deep shade garden, including a flower called Astilbe, hardy in zones 3 - 8. You might want to peruse a copy in the check out stand next trip through the grocery store.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: MMario
Date: 13 Jun 08 - 10:18 AM

Astilbe - so far haven't managed to keep one alive...maybe I need to try the "benign neglect" method - shove it in the ground and ignore it. That's what finally got Lily of the Valley growing for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:12 AM

Dug up and moved a cactus and agave (and lots of agave babies) today.

There is a toad in my veggie garden this evening, hopping around in the sprinkler and eating June bugs.

I'm glad I can keep this toad in the style to which he/she has become accustomed.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 10:59 PM

I was going to trim a low little limb on the redbud yesterday when I realized it was where the fireflies park themselves during the day. I posted an image at the Mudcat Gardeners page. I should dig out some of my tarantula photos, and a some of the other folks who live in my garden. Lots of Mediterranean house geckos and native toads these days.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Janie
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 11:39 PM

Spent some time contemplating the yard at the new house this weekend. I'll try to get some pictures this weekend. Looks like those oaks suck up most of the available moisture. Looks like a lot of dry shade. I'm having second thoughts about moving any of my Japanese Anemone over there.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Janie
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 11:41 PM

Can't find the article now, but earlier today on either CNN or the Raleigh News & Observer website, I read about a 2000 year old date palm seed some one has successfully sprouted in Isreal.

Neat!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 12:27 AM

HERE's one article about it. That's incredible!

Maggie, I'll see about joining up in a day or two. I don't have much to post for pix, yet, but will keep it in mind. I am enjoying reading and looking!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM

I just added another photo, a pupa of something with a long curled tail. It was as long as the blades on my little hand pruner.

I add you to the group if you want, using that gmail address I have, if that would be easier.

Bobert, how's your spread holding up in the heat? It smells like burning grass around here. Of course, this could be a grass fire in Mexico, the smoke travels and lingers low. But that's what it smells like this morning.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 12:44 PM

In spite of the heat wave we had we have been blessed with decent rains... 2.2 two weeks ago... 1.8 over the last 3 days... Plus we keep the ossilators going bewteen rains...

Right now we are getting the last few beds around the house that haven't had the "full treatment" ready for a garden tour the 2nd week of July... The full treatment consists of weeding, puting down two layers (sheets) of newspaper, then landscape cloth and then the appropiate mulch... We use a chipper to grind up leaves and use them around acid loving plants... But we also buy double shedded mulch which is delevered in a big truck (12 yards) and we also have friends who have a large pine forest and we collect bags and bags of pine needles... The veggie garden is mulched in straw which is great for keeping down the weeds and holding moisture and then at the end of the season I just hook up the plow to the tractor and plow it in for the winter...

All in all, most everything looks fine... But we all know that there is always something calling out for attention... Right now our pond is completely covered with algea and we have to find a bale of barley to throw in it... Barley bales aion't wasy to find... I'm not too sure if a bushel of barley would do the same thing???

Well, short nap and back at it!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 01:26 PM

The collective knowledge in this thread is astounding! I am takign baby steps. Right now, something is eating my sunflower leaves and also the leaves on my newly-planted Eastern redbud tree. We think it is earwigs as we do have them around here. So, I bought some Diatomaceous Earth, but it doesn't have instructions about applying on or near plants, just getting it into the crevasses, etc. and just as dire warnings as the chemical poison stuff, it seems! The only thing I can think to do is sprinkle it around the base of each plant in the evening after all watering is done, then again the next evening. We don't see any bugs on them during the day, so assume it is night time when they come out to feed. Does that sound logical? And, any suggestions on what else we could do? I read somewhere, if you roll up a wet newspaper, the earwigs will gather in it overnight, then you can dispose of them, in the paper, the next morning, but that would be really unhandy for where I have the sunflowers and I don't know if it would keep them from eating away, anyway. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:48 PM

DE is easily "puffed" out of a bottle like the kind you get for ketchup (my spell check didn't like "catsup"--am I the only one who spells it that way?) or mustard, with a pointed skinny cap. I have a couple that are larger than the usual table-size that I bought at a restaurant supply place near me. I've been trying DE myself in several situations.

I periodically make a shallow depression in the garden and put a dish there with an inch of beer in it. Surprising what turns up drowned in the morning. Slugs, snails, pillbugs. Maybe earwigs.

If you have a hand sprayer sprayer you can use water with orange oil (like TKO or Delimonene) and soap and spinosad or neem on some of these things. (Do you have Ace Hardware or Big Lots nearby? They carry a nice little half-gallon pump sprayer for about $4.50) Visit http://www.dirtdoctor.com and poke around the library and you'll find lots of hints on dealing with all sorts of bugs.

Best way to figure out what is eating your plants is to go out with a flashlight at night and look at those leaves to see what is there.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:35 PM

'Bout time for them pesky Japanese Beetles to make their yearly assault so maybe that's what is eating yer stuff, kat...

We keep old jars (with lids) around with water in 'um and pick the J. Beetles off and drop 'um in the jar... That takes care of 'um... No poisons...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Janie
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:55 PM

Kat, diatomaceous earth is not likely to have much effect in controlling earwigs. Traps are your best bet. (those newspapers, or boards, etc.) They like dark, moist places and love mulch and compost - and especially love leaf mold - so they can be a real problem. You probably have a different species than we have here, but the earwigs common to this area tend not to chew on leaves - they can wreak havoc to blooms - nothing is supposed to bother daffodils and narcissis, but some years they absolutely ravage mine.

I didn't have much of a problem with them for years, but apparently got an infestation with a dump truck load of compost I had brought in one year. I've had problems every since, though some years are worse than others. Trapping them and dumping them in a bucket of soapy water does seem to help control them some. I have also tried raking off all the mulch, letting the top layer of soil dry out some, and then replacing with new mulch, with some success.

Bobert, I saw my first japanese beetle this morning on daisy fleabane growing along the road.

Stilly - I'll send cultivation info. when I send you the poppy seeds. Where you live, you will want to strew some of them late this fall, and more in late winter for extended bloom. Want any rose campion seeds? I have white and magenta.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Janie
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:57 PM

I remember the year I decided the proper role of roses in my landscape was as a trap crop for japanese beetles;o0)

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:44 PM

I've never seen Japanese beetles here, but a quick search show they do exist here. Though one thing said they leave the leaves looking kind of feathery, leaving the spine, etc. My leaves are chewed around the edges, kind of scalloped. I'll try the DE for tonight, at least. Thanks for the link, Maggie. Thanks, Bobert and Janie, too! I'll take a look tomorrow at the other remedies and go look with a flashlight tonight. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Janie
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:13 PM

Whatever critter you got, Kat, it ain't japanese beetles. They feed during the day, and there ain't no missin' 'em. If you don't have them right around you, just smile and keep quiet about it, and don't tempt the fates.

It may be that you don't have much growing that attracts them. If you don't have much grass, the grubs might have a hard time of it. The grubs feed on plant roots and organic matter in the soil. If you don't have much grass (I think I remember you saying you don't, your environment may be hostile enough to the grubs to keep them at bay.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:50 PM

I guess there's something to said for scrubby grass, then?**bg** Thanks, Janie, fates are let go...:-)

I did go out with the flashlight, in my jammies, no less, and didn't see a thing under the leaves or along the stems. Maybe the DE has already kept them away? I can hope, eh? It's odd, I don't see grubs, caterpillars, no earwigs even. I might call the extension office tomorrow and see what they say.

Thanks and g'night.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 02:17 AM

Not everything munches at night, so one look might not help, but if you make it a practice you'll see lots of interesting things going on anyway.

On my way back in from emptying the trash I offered a little toad a June bug but he declined and headed into the eggplant leaves.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 11:42 PM

I picked up a pound of peeled garlic at a local Asian grocery, along with some jalapenos, and am going to make some garlic pepper tea for critter control. I just have to remember which critters it controls. I've made it before, it does work, but it has been a while.

Very heavy rain in a dawn thunderstorm today, at least an inch. My yard gasped a sigh of relief!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 08:05 AM

One thing that can be done to cut down on bug problems is making the garden "bird friendly"... A bird bath alone will attract enough birds to make a dent in the insects...

We are fortunate in that we also have toads and lots of tree frogs... They eat the heck outta bugs... Now, tree frogs you can't get if you don't have the right conditions but most folks have toads and if Mr. Toad has a nice little toad house he will stay in or around your garden and be yer buddy, too... Turtles are also helpfull but they tend to be wanderers but I always stop fir 'um on the road and if it ain't too far from home take 'um home and put them in the garden... If it is too far I just assist them in crossing whatever road they are stuck on...

BTW, why did the turtle cross the road???

Nevermind...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: MMario
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 08:56 AM

we've had rain the last day or so as well; I think some even pentrated into the ground!

Roses are starting to bloom; the last of the rhodies are blooming and the iris have started. I have more colours of siberian then I thought!

Sadly - the rain knocked out a lot of the peonies.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 10:38 AM

*Ahem* unless one is down near the river or an irrigation ditch, they won't find any frogs or toads here in the high desert.:-) The closest we might come would be the horned toad and he ain't gonna be anywhere near a garden with water and green things.:-)

Bird bath I can do. I'll move it from the backyard to the front. It'll be more entertaining for the cats looking out the window that way, too.:-)

I am just going out now to see how things are this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 11:13 AM

Mona, at the garden center, asked me to bring in a leaf from the sunflowers and one from the redbud tree so she can see if it is the same pest AND so she can identify it, too. Then, maybe I can figure out a non-poisonous way to get rid of them! Here's a picture of what it is doing to the Eastern redbud tree: Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 12:40 PM

Well, well, Mona took one look, smiled and told me a small cutter bee was making baby blankets out of my redbud tree! She said once she gets done doing that, she will come back and clean up the bugs to feed to her children. After reading the info on that link, I am not going to do anything except maybe put some cheesecloth over the tree for a little bit. It's odd that she hasn't bothered my roses at all.

The sunflowers are being eaten by a teeny-tiny caterpillar that eats the underside layer and, if they eat it a little too thin, then the upper layer collapses and makes it look as though it is eating holes in it. She said any vegetable garden pyrethrin would take care of that.

So mysteries solved!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM

More rain this morning. More little holes in my eggplant, and ants on the plant. Gotta get on top of them.

Spent all day at a garage sale, and will spend tomorrow morning also. After that, attacking the area for a new bed and weeding an existing bed. Slowly and surely I'm getting these beds under control.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 08 - 01:05 PM

I bought a used blender ($4) at the garage sale yesterday, and have ordered a set of three replacement gaskets. The one in it now will stand a true test this morning--batches of garlic tea and garlic pepper tea. Strong stuff, enough to eat holes through old rubber. :)

After two days of rain the garden shot way up. Now I need to keep it up there and healthy, and I'm still battling ants with aphids in the peppers. Arrggghh!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM

We're heading into drought mode here, so I'm again contemplating a couple of things I've threatened in the past. Gray water into the yard for gardens, primarily (have to relocate one, or at least establish it new), but also, what is the process to lay out a bed based on permaculture concepts? Move the soil, create zones, add compost, gray water, etc. Anyone dabble in that? What would you plant in it if you set one up?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 11:42 AM

How are you getting the gray water out there, Maggie? Do you already have a collection system in place?

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 12:31 PM

I have a small drill-driven pump that has a hose adaptor on it, but there are quite a few available for this kind of thing (look up pumps at someplace like Ben Meadows). One bathroom has a window and I would probably put a tank on a stand outside that room and let gravity feed to the adjacent garden when needed. It would need regular cleaning with shampoo and soap in it, to keep the tank from getting too crusty, but shampoo and soap aren't going to hurt the garden.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 05:11 PM

Thanks, Maggie.

IN looking for organic, safe alternatives to pyrethrin sprays for the bugs eating my sunflowers, I came across a neat posting about kids experimenting with organic gardening. Near the bottom of the page is a paragraph of two about a company which will send out beneficial bugs to kids who commit to using them to conduct investigations. It's a neat idea which you may read about HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 08:46 PM

Just a thought, SRS, about using gray water... I'm sure it's okay to talk about it here but it might not be to yer neighbors... Many local governemnts have laws on the books about gray water... Back in Jefferson Co., Wes Ginny, it was against the law to use gray water for anything??? Go figure???

Yeah, stupid law but there ain't no shortage of stupid laws...

Here on the Blue Ridge it's all work and no play... Three weeks away from the garden tour and we have been weeding, watering, mulching every day... We hired a lady who is a weed-aholic for 2 days and she went to war with 'um...

We had hail in the area two nights ago and it ruined alot of folks veggie gardens but we were blessed to note get much of it and what did fall was real small... Put some small holes in a couple canna leaves but that was it... Our farmer friend, Mr. Clifford, got blasted a half a mile from here and it put a big hurt on his veggies... Looks like we'll be givin' him stuff this year...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:29 AM

You're right, Bobert, there might be rules, but this village is a kind of odd little place that is surrounded by Fort Worth. I have been thinking about maybe filtering through sand into a modified French drain into a gardening area. I've had this thought before, about the permaculture process, but never acted on it. A friend of mine went and bought a 3000 gallon tank after we had a similar conversation (he will use it as a cistern, and that was what I was originally thinking about). But a plastic channel, filled with sand and with periodic outlets into a garden area might be a good way to "filter" gray water and avoid any possible odors of shampoo or dishwater. I'd have to find a different laundry soap before I used that water.

Think about it--by just using gray water, you all of a sudden have a lot more water and actually could flood out your garden, if you put a day's worth out every day--we use so much. It means you need more garden or to use less water. Or something like that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:47 AM

I've been meaning to try Soap Nuts, Maggie. You might be interested in them. There's more info on this blog. Here's Another place to buy them.

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:07 AM

"Maggie's soap nuts." What an inspired name!

;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 10:34 AM

Yeah!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:22 PM

Harbor Freight has several types of submersible water pumps for the kind of thing I'm thinking about as far as using gray water. And you can get "dirty water" pumps, a good idea with particles from rinsing. There are a couple that take regular hose attachments, others use tubing. Simply collecting rinse water in a bucket in the kitchen sink would add a fair amount of water to my little garden outside that window.

I have trichogramma wasps out there, and I'll put out another batch this weekend. Still plenty of pests, though. Started spotting a fewe mealybugs this week. The wasps should take care of them, but this probably means the garden is stressed. Need to put out more mulch and do another fertilizing.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 02:42 PM

This checks out as true on snopes, so I thought I'd pass it along, even though it looks as though it's been making the rounds since 2003, I've never seen it before:

Subject: Attention Dog and Cat Lovers





Over the weekend the doting owner of two young lab mixes purchased Cocoa

Mulch from Target to use in their garden. They loved the way it smelled

and it was advertised to keep cats away from their garden. Their dog

Calypso, decided that the mulch smelled good enough to eat and devoured

a large helping. She vomited a few times which was typical when she eats

something new but wasn't acting lethargic in any way. The next day, Mom

woke up and took Calypso out for her morning walk. Half way through the

walk, she had a seizure and died instantly.



Although the mulch had NO warnings printed on the label, upon further

investigation on the companies web site, this product is HIGHLY toxic to

dogs.



Cocoa Mulch is manufactured by Hershey's, and they claim that 'It is

true that studies have shown that 50% of the dogs that eat Cocoa Mulch

can suffer physical harm to a variety of degrees (depending on each

individual dog). However, 98% of all dogs won't eat it.'



True information about the mulch can be found here -

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoa.htm

This site gives the

following   information:



Cocoa Mulch, which is sold by Home Depot, Foreman's Garden Supply and

other Garden supply stores, contains a lethal ingredient called 'Theo

bromine'.



It is lethal to dogs and cats. It smells like chocolate and it really

attracts dogs. They will ingest this stuff and die. Several deaths

already occurred in the last 2-3 weeks. Just a word of caution check

what you are using in your gardens and be aware of what your gardeners

are using in your gardens.



Theo bromine is the ingredient that is used to make all chocolate

especially dark or baker's chocolate which is toxic to dogs.



Cocoa bean shells contain potentially toxic quantities of theobromine ,

a xanthine compound similar in effects to caffeine and theophylline. A

dog that ingested a lethal quantity of garden mulch made from cacao bean

shells developed severe convulsions and died 17 hours later. Analysis of

the stomach contents and the ingested cacao bean shells revealed the

presence of lethal amounts of theobromine.





PLEASE GIVE THIS WIDEST DISTRIBUTION



snopes.com: Cocoa Mulch

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 03:28 PM

Well, that's it for me... No more mulch snacks at night!!!

Nevermind...

Well, well, well...

Seems that all we do these days is pick stuff... The black raspberries are only a few days from giving out but the red ones are coming it... With the good rains we have had we've had a bumper crop of berries... And the cherry trees up on Lewis Jenkins far4m are so full of cherrys that the things could very easily collapse under the weight of them so Lewis is letting anyone pick who wants to...

We're freezing alot of berries for next winter... The cherrys will end up in a couple of pies... My back hurts from pittin' 'um... I'd much rather pick than pit...

Veggie garden is gonna be a tad late becuase of the cool May we had... The ground didn't get up to 55 degrees until almost the first of June so tomatoes, cukes, eggplant, beans, etc. will be a couple weeks late... But the spinach wat that weather up... Lettuce is giving out...

We're having the annual "cutting exchange" for the Northeern Va. Azalea Society here at our place in a couple weeks so every day is weeding and mulching trying to be ready for it... The P-Vine had me demolish an old board fence between the driveway and the house... After it was gone things didn't look quite right so I've spent the last 3 days taking the tractor back in the woods, loading big rocks and dragging them out and have just purdy much completed an 80 long stone wall... Still doesn't do what the old fence did but it is a step in right direction... Plus, the area where I've been getting the rocks has needed a little clean up so between the front bucket (with tooth bar) and a rear 3 pt. hitch York rake It's lookin' purdy spiffy...

Well, back at it... It's 94 degrees so I'm taking a short break every couple hours...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 06:24 PM

I have lots of foliage but not a lot of fruit in my garden. The ants haven't gone away completely and the peppers look pretty sorry. Now the mealybugs are showing up. Arrrghghhh! I'm simply going over each plant and squashing the little suckers, and I'll spray more garlic pepper tea this evening. I have to put down more mulch, what's out there is wearing a little thin.

I had my son working on a brick area that was taken over by lemon balm. He worked all of about 5 minutes. How am I going to teach these kids to garden if that's all the time they spend out there? After getting up at noon? He wants an allowance this summer, he'll have to work for it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:18 PM

I jettisoned the compost bin experiment--as you predicted, Bobert, there was plenty of moisture. So much that it wasn't working properly. I dug a hole in the yard compost pile and tipped the contents of this bin in under cover of dusk last night, crossing my fingers that it seeps into the bin and doesn't get stinky (the latest heap is out in the front yard).

I'm going to pick up three barrels from a friend who works at a metalworking plant. He brings home the big plastic 55 gallon barrels from non-regulated items (the benign non-EPA regulated stuff, he says) and has used them around the yard to hold water and to catch rainwater and such. He's an organic gardener also, BTW. I'm planning to set up water stations and see if I can work out a gray water into the veggie garden operation in a couple of spots, and in another, I want to see how much rainwater I collect and how long it takes to use in the flower beds out front.

Janie, how is your move going? Have you started transporting pots yet? Sorry I'm not nearby to help you paint!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 06:27 PM

SRS,

You will be amazed aty just how quickly wtare falling on a roof and down into a gutter and downspout will fill a 55 gallon barrel...

If you take a house that is like 40 feet long and 24 feet deep and collect the water from one side or the other of the roof it will take less than a an inch of rain to fill a 55 gallong drum to the top...

There are companies that offer kits and you might want to look intom them... You don't need much but you do need a valve at the bottom and and overflow flange and a screened inlet port for the top... I've rigged up a few with hardware store stuff but the kits are cheap and make the rain barrel very efficient...

Back in Wes Ginny I had a 350 gallon tank under my back deck where all the rain water from the back half of the roof went... It had an electric pump mounted on top and I had underground hose to my vaggie garden with an oscilator at the end and all I had to do was flick a switch and, wah-laa, the veggie garden would get watered... It was quite a system, not to mention a cool thing to show off...

We spent the day in the veggie garden today weeding, mulching (straw), suckering tomoato plants and side dressing everything that like lots of nitrogen... We have this guy who has a chicken farm and he calls us now and then when he has "the good stuff"... The good stuff is not only chicken litter but also composted dead chickens... Yeah, I know it sounds gross and it smells purdy bad but if is "the good stuff"...

(Dead chickens, Bobertz???)

Well, yeah... These chicken houses hold up to 100,000 chickens which grow from peeps to full grown in 45 days!!! Yeah, I know... It is unbelievable but the chicken you buy at the store was slaughtered before it was 2 months old... Anyway, if you bring in 100,000 peeps than there are gonna be a certain number that die from various reasons during the 45 days they are being grown and the state makes chicken farmers compost the dead chickens and so each chicken farm has that special compost areas where one day "the good stuff" is ready... I keep my pile way away from the house in the woods and take the tractor down there and scoop a bucket now and then for the veggies... Side dress them and it's... BINGO!!! They take off a'growin...

Anyway, today was the day so I reckon we are off an' running now...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 10:06 PM

I always just put tomatoes in the ground and let them grow--what do you do to sucker them? How many branches or do you pinch of flowers, what? I got some last ones left on the table tomatoes this year (an odd mix, and not the ones I like best) and I have an odd shaggy bunch out there now. Some are really bushy, others are leggy. One of my squash (I only have a few) just keeled over. It's too close to the house, I'll avoid planting to near the wall next year. I have a new bed with lots of air and sun that I'll be working on in the fall for next spring. Maybe get a couple of fall things in for this year, who knows.

I have to put out a lot more mulch now also.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 11:42 PM

Ewww...I wouldn't feel like much of a vegetarian if I knew I was eating a tomato which grew well off a dead chicken.:-< Bobert, your place sounds gorgeous, though!

Anywho...we have our first two grape tomatoes just about ready to pick from the two potted plants we set up. They both have lots of blooms, baby green tomatoes, and seem to be quite happy now that I've moved them to where they get a bit more sun. I have to make sure the dog doesn't get to them before we do; that's what he did in WY...ate all the cherry tomatoes before we got to them!

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 08:41 AM

Well, SRS, the tomato plant will send up branches between branches that won't bloom much but take alot of the plants strength... If you hold up three fingers and think of them as branches on yer plant then if you take out the middle one, that is called suckering... Now if yer plant is up like 3 or 4 feet tall then those middle branches will havr some size to them and your need to cut them out with pruner sheers... You might end up taking a 1/4 of each plant but yer plant will produce some fine fruit that way 'cause more of yer nutrients from the roots are going where it's supposed to go...

Another ol' trick that works is to go fishing the day you plant yer tomato plants and put a bluegill in the hole first, then a little dirt on top of the bluegill and then plant the tomato on top that... The bluegill will feed the plant for the entire season...

Yeah, kat... The cherry tomato is the earliest to make fruit... We grew all our tomatoes from seed this year but didn't have any for the cherry tomatoes but, as per usual, we have several stray tomato plants that have come up in the garden so we've left a few to grow hoping that one is a cherry tomato... Once we get one we'll pull the other strays up... We had a cool May so our stuff is about 10 days behind...

BTW, Mr. Clifford says that you plant yer warm veggies after you have had 5 nights of 50 degrees or better... I always heard that the soil temperture needs to get to 55 degrees... I donno... I did hear recently that if you plant yer seedlings in cold soil that they don't just sit there waiting for warm to take off but that it retards their grown once the soil does get warm... I donno...

I do know that it's good to have smallish river rocks in the garden because they hold heat better than plain soil...

Well, time is a'wasting... Back at it... 10 days 'til our garden tour...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:50 AM

Heating the garden isn't an issue here.

I'll see what I can come up with on the tomatoes, Bobert, and report back. Some of them are way bushy compared to the fruit.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Gardeners & Soil and Climate Science
From: MMario
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:58 AM

Aside from colonists on new volcanic soil, and lichens and such; there probably isn't a plant on earth that isn't growing in the composted remains of some animal.