BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab

Subject: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 09:50 AM

Being an old git, over 60, I've got a bus pass. As I'm on a limited retirement income this has proved very useful over the last couple of years.
Until yesterday I just showed my pass to the driver as I boarded the bus. But yesterday the driver asked me to place my pass onto a glass plate on top of his ticket machine. The machine emitted a 'beep!' sound as it registered my pass.
This set me wondering - is the bus company now going to be able monitor my journeys and will they be in a position to give the data to any other organisations? Is the data ultimately going to be used to get rid of bus passes altogether? What else will they use the data for?
I've written to the local transport authorities asking for answers to these questions. If I'm not happy with the answers that I receive I might have to go for a FOI request.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 10:43 AM

It's supposed to prevent fraud - you could be a dissipated 30 year old trying it on. Think yourself lucky you're not in Sweden! Just found this from an American old git over there...

When you have a bus-pass here, it is not used by showing it to the driver, as in the USA and other parts of the Third World. No, it is a high-tech marvel, a magnetic card which emits some kind of ray --- I suppose they are called B (for Bus) Rays --- to a scanning device mounted behind the driver. After getting on, you hold the card up to the scanner, in just the right orientation, and press one of seven buttons on the device. If you do it right, the scanner detects your B-rays and can tell not only that it is you, but even when you last used the card, and on which bus. When you do it right you are rewarded by a green light, which announces to the world that you are legal. I never am.

In my case, what always happen is that a red light flashes, bells ring, sirens go off, and everyone in the bus is informed that I am a hopeless nincompoop. At this point, the driver carefully tells me what to do, but of course he does so in Swedish, perhaps saying: "Nej, nej, you are holding the magnetic card backwards and upside down." I don't understand a word, of course, but smile idiotically and fall back on my small store of memorized Swedish phrases. "I'd like the shrimp salad, tonight," I tell him, in my best Swedish accent.

"You need to turn the card around, and press button 3," he says, attempting to demonstrate with his hands. "Where is my umbrella?" I reply brightly. People behind me, waiting to have their own cards scanned for B-rays, begin to shuffle a little. "Listen buddy," the driver says, "I can't start the bus until you work the card-scanner right." "Can you show me one in a larger size?" I tell him, simultaneously flapping the magnetic card ineffectually against the scanner, the window, the back of the driver's head, anything in the whole general area. The light stays red.

The line in back of me continues to build up. Although they are unfailingly polite, as Swedes always are, I began to have paranoid fantasies about what they may do to me if I never get out of the way. It is plain that there is something wrong with my B-rays, so I give up on this high-tech adventure, return the B-ray card to my wallet, and attempt to pay cash. "Is there a bath on this floor?" I ask the driver, fumbling out the largest Swedish bill I have. The driver regards me wearily, and hands over a ticket and a small mountain of coins in change. "So nice to meet you," I say, deftly sweeping the coins to the floor. Then I drop to the floor myself, scoop up most of the change, and proceed on my hands and knees to the rear of the bus, hoping to be as inconspicuous as possible.

No wonder so many people are murdered in Ystad......

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:29 AM

Oh! Brilliant piece of writing, Ed...I *so* enjoyed reading that! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM

I know about that, Ed. Ussa be ya paid the fare and that was that. Too much of this crap lately, imo. I laughed lots while reading your post (excellent writing) and then asked myself what I was laughing about. The writing is hilarious; the situation is terrible, and there's too much of this 'subliminal' surveillance taking place.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM

Being an old git, over 60,
Consider yourself lucky, the age for passes is being raised, I won't get mine until I am 61.

and will they be in a position to give the data to any other organisations?
Of course, they don't give you the ride for nothing, they have to claim back the fare from the local authority.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 03:01 PM

It'd be much simpler if they just made public transport free for everyone, with publicly owner and operated buses and trains.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 04:21 PM

The age of geezerhood varies a great deal. In Oregon when you attain the age of 55 you qualify for senior rates at buffet restaurants. In Alaska, at 65 - 10-year difference- you can get a tax-free card that exempts you from local sales taxes and lets you ride city buses free. Oh, and the first $150,000 of the value on your mortgage is forgiven.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:20 PM

These old gits (female) are dangerous for old gits (male). When they pull out those knitting needles and start waving them around, it is time to yell for the constables or don armo(u)r.
By all means take their prints and install cameras, or have someone riding shotgun with the driver.

In Calgary, seniors get passes (free) at age 65. Proof of age and Calgary residence required upon application.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 05:58 PM

Yes, but what are the security services going to do with the information that I go into the city centre a couple of times a week and sometimes walk to to local places of interest and then get the bus back?

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:14 AM

In London the Freedom Pass is an Oyster Card and tracks every journey that is touched in / out for. But the joy is that unlike the real Oyster you don't have to touch in / out if you don't have to - that is there is no penalty fare for not touching out at the end of a journey!! TfL makes millions out of over-charging hapless commuters and tourists 'cos when they don't touch out they get slammed for the highest fare for the day based on where they started. On the TfL buses yes you have to touch in, but you don't have to touch out. The biggest issues with 'security' are the damned CTV cameras - each bus has about 16!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:51 AM

Hi

Although I am more than just an "old git" and have had a bus pass for many years , I have hardly used it. I usually walk into town for the exercise.

We do make occasional shopping trips etc and use our cards then. I noticed that the last time we used our card we had to have it scanned by the driver as we entered the bus.

We were told that it was to try to elimate fraudulent passes that were being copied by forgers.

We live near the borders of North Wales and our bus passes are not accepted over the border, although I believe ( but have not tried it ) that if we start the journey in England it will be OK but you can't do the opposite on return !!

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 07:43 AM

I often take the bus from Chester to Wrexham and the pass works both ways (so long as I don't get off in the middle).

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 09:42 AM

Hi Dave

Thanks for the info We have never tried it. We were told by someone that said that they had.

We are going in a few weeks so we will investigate further.

Cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM

Ah yes! But if you get off somewhere in the middle you might be able to shake off your MI5 minders.

What me paranoid? ... They're everywhere you know?!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:49 AM

MikeL,

I also reside near the Welsh border.

My Cheshire bus pass allows its use if the journey begins or ends in Cheshire, so like Dave McK, I used it t'other day to travel from Connahs Quay, Wales to Chester, England with no probs

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 11:51 AM

Also I keep the rules notice in the pass's wallet in case of query

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 03:40 PM

hi Mr H

Thanks for the heads up. Now you got me looking for the rules.....grrrrr !!! lol

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:36 AM

At a place where I worked a while back, they were in the process of introducing an "automatic gate" system that was described as detecting your "badge" with the badge anywhere on your person, visible or not.

Warnings were given that the detection worked best if you proceeded into, and through, the turnstile/booth at a normal walking pace. (A "stationary" badge was less effectively read.)

The turnstile consisted of a vertical post with horizontal iron pipes, about 2 inches in diameter and roughly a meter long, projecting across the entry way. The bars blocked the entire vertical distance from floor to ceiling of the "booth" with only about 10 inches between bars.

When your badge was recognized and verified, the vertical post "unlocked" so that you could push the bars around and pass through in typical turnstile fashion.

The cautious workers who approached too slowly did soon discover that it almost necessary to be walking at a fairly brisk pace in order for the turnstile to unlock reliably.

At proper pace when one approached, the turnstile unlocked quite reliably.

Except when it didn't...

Has any one other than my friend "Fred" had the experience of walking at 3.4+ mph into a fixed iron bar at nose height - - - on three consecutive mornings just before the first cup of coffee?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: gnomad
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 06:34 AM

The trouble with asking what the data will be used for is that the uses proposed are probably harmless enough, so everyone gets happy with the system and then less ethical uses get sneaked in later.

You can also bet that "privacy" would be advanced as a way to decline any requested use of the data that might be helpful to the individual, such as providing an alibi. On the whole, you largely have to accept that your life is no longer your own.

I haven't had Fred's experience with a metal turnstile gate, but a glass revolving door with a similar mechanism was the bane of my life (and that of around 2000 colleagues' lives) at one call-centre I had the debatable pleasure of inhabiting.

Around 10 years ago at a supermarket with an electric-eye-operated sliding door I had the joy of it closing on me as I passed through. The door in question is about 7'6" high by 10' wide and closed with enough force to trap me momentarily. Luckily at about 170.lbs I was solid enough to just get a slight bruise to my shoulder. The staff apologised, but seemed unconcerned when I pointed out that while a healthy chap of 40 odd years could take the blow with just a bit of dignity lost, an old lady of half my weight would be lucky to end up in hospital after such an impact. I left it to the queue outside to point out that the collision had derailed the door, and that it was no longer admitting customers.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:13 AM

Agreed, that example's a good description of automated devices going awry.

Like pedestrian crossings, the time to cross often seems tailored to sprinters rather than old codgers like me who need more time to cross

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:44 AM

In many areas around here the "pedestrian crossing" rules say that vehicles must yield to any pedestrian in the crosswalk. Vehicles must remain stopped until anyone in the designated walkway is clear.

They also prohibit a pedestrian from entering the crosswalk except when the "run like hell now" signal is lit.

There is thus a very short time to get into the crosswalk, but there's no violation for not getting across and out on the other side.

The only consequence of not completing your crossing by the time the signal flips off would be the broken bones and lacerations from the drivers who don't understand the rules.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:31 AM

A tachograph is one device that all buses should have installed!
The speed some buses do around my town is just silly - and dangerous!

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:03 AM

In rural parts of the UK they don't even issue tickets against bus passes, just wave the old gits on. Not that there are many young gits (like me).
Mostly they are the companies with 5 buses total.

One thing I noticed recently was the speed of the buses. The modern breed are as fast as the cars - otherwise the idiots would be trying to overtake all the time, instead of just most of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:30 PM

We were on a bus in Norwich recently, and the driver was stitching along, when suddenly a car pulled out in front of us. He jammed on the brakes, and my goodness they were sharp, the bus screamed to a stop and nearly all the passengers fell on the floor, one woman flew out of her seat and landed right up the front beside the white-faced driver. I bumped my chin on the seat in front, but my husband was nicely jammed in his place by my large derriere. I feel that there should be seat belts in buses!
(PS The driver came round asking for names and addresses of his passengers who were willing to witness what had happened, he was shaking like a leaf. I suppose the dreaded word COMPENSATION was looming large in his mind! Luckily nobody was badly hurt.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:28 PM

Two points. Passengers aren't insured if they stand when seats are available, and a driver was done a few years ago for driving without due care, it being established that passengers are 'other road users'.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:30 PM

I should have added that all the passengers WERE seated, but those on the aisles just shot forward out of their seats, and slid along the floor. There was quite a heap of them! Also, I can't really say the driver was at fault, he braked in order to avoid the car in front. I think seat belts would have prevented all this.

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:36 PM

I would imagine that Eliza's bus driver was "shaking like a leaf" because he'd just been involved in a near fatal accident, rather than because "the dreaded word COMPENSATION was looming large in his mind!"

Subject: RE: BS: Bus Passes - Spy in the Cab
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:58 PM

Perhaps you're right, McGrath, but rather than help to pick people up, he wanted our names and addresses. A group of us who hadn't actually fallen on the floor managed to get folk up and back on the seats. His first thought it seemed to me was to exonerate himself. I'm not judging him, it had obviously been a great shock.