The end of 'Folkwaves' on BBC

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: danensis
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 02:04 PM

I think the BBC consider one letter is worth a hundred emails. They know it takes effort to compose a letter and put it in the post. Its also worth asking a few questions, so they have to send a personalised reply.

John

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:18 PM

Mitch the Bass, can you please look at your PM's please.
Les

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 03:34 PM

Having received the same reply from Simon Cornes, I've written to ask Stuart Thomas why the only alternative to "super-serving" my "particular "genre" is to decide not to serve it at all.

I also asked what had prevented them from moving it to a different time slot and pointed out that "the "gig-guides" broadcast in the programme are a valuable source of information on local events and that live interviews on the programme are with local performers or national performers who are performing in the local area."

I won't hold my breathe for a reply!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:07 PM

if any one has the email address of Mark Thompson, Director-General of the Beeb, we could all mail him and appraise him of our feelings.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,J Phipps
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 04:33 PM

I am gutted. Some wanker in regional and not apparently BBC Derby decide to go with the Yob appeal. I had already sent a Christmas card before the news got out. Two shows left and next week recorded. Folkwaves was the one thing that made Monday tolerable. This yob mentality is destroying England but it just another milepost in the downhill slide.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:12 PM

@ Arthur–itus. It really is quite odd, and i was looking around for the voice option (i may have missed it). Thanks very much for your help.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,John Greenwood
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:15 PM

I have emailed a complaint to BBC Complaints citing clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 viz:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

Stuart Thomas appears to be either ignorant of is flauting this mandatory obligation. In either case he is bringing the BBC into disrepute and is risking it being found to have failed to comply with its local radio licence.

I am promised a reply within 10 days which I will post on this site on receipt. If the reply is unsatisfactory I will then complain to the BBC Trust.

Mr Thomas should be in no doubt that he will be required to account for his actions and that the decision to axe Folkwaves is not a fait accompli.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM

Good stuff John, go for the juggler.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:06 PM

Schlimerkerl, do the following.

Enter all your details.
In the section where it says Confirmation Of Registration
Where it says, "If you are visually impaired or cannot otherwise read this code please contact the Board Administrator".

Board Administrator should be as a link. Click on it and send an e-mail to the administrator. Then wait for feedback.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 06:44 PM

It seems a bit unfair that while all other BBC local radio stations are under instructions from on high to divert their (dwindling) resources to breakfast and mid-morning 'shows', Radio Derby has got the cash to run new local programmes (which you'd think would mean more journalists/producers/newsreaders) all through the evening till 1 in the morning.

Or maybe what they mean by 'local programmes' is some Alan Partridge sound-alike talking bollocks in between endless Michael Buble tracks. And by 'local breaking news' they mean some sad listener ringing in to say "It's snowing outside my house and we haven't seen a gritter since 1947".

What a strange place Derby must be. No 9-to-5 culture, no watching the telly together, just people on their computers wishing they had something to listen to to fill the void...

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 07:00 PM

'What a strange place Derby must be!'

understatement of the century...?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:51 AM

My Two pennorth!

Dear Mr Thomas.
Firstly a direct quote from the BBC's own Local Radio Charter.

Clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 states

"5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

And surely this is the point. Folkwaves ticks all the boxes, and more, by spreading the name of Radio Derby not only throughout the UK, but worlwide too.
I have read some of your replies to others, and would like to take you up on some of them.

1. "We have to appeal to the majority of license payers"
Well, forgive me, but the Radio Broadcast License was abolished years ago!!

2. "We need to reflect, breaking news and other stories."
Fair enough, If the news is of national importance, or the weather has disrupted transport in the region, as in recent weeks.
I'm sure Mick and Lester would be only too happy to juggle their programming. I know that they have happily given up the show completely for the occasional important FA cup game, etc. Thats the beauty of Live Radio, It's flexibility.
If the Queen was ill, or the Government were defeated, etc, Of course the show would be postponed to make way.
(I was on duty at BH when Diana died....All of the National Radio schedules were torn up, and quite rightly so.)
But, in reality, does anything of that importance happen every Monday in Derby?

It would seem to me that this is a cost cutting excersise. I will await with interest to see how you will replace Folkwaves. If it is another minority interest music programme, a discussion could be had on the merits or otherwise of a change, but at least it would be something....maybe an Asian music show. I wouldn't argue against that, I'm sure that your Asian community would embrace it...I'm also sure that Mick and Lester wouldn't be averse to widening their horizons even more, perhaps sharing time with an Asian music specialist..Multiculturalism at work, perhaps. Radio Derby could become a trend setter, The first Radio station to put Traditional English folk alongside Bhangra...(Oh, Sorry, Andy Kershaw, John Peel, and Late Junction did that years ago)

I fear though that it will be the cheapest form of programming available to Local Radio...."The Phone-In"

If this is a cost cutting excersise, it makes perfect sense, Phone -ins are cheap.
But so is Folkwaves. The only cost to Radio Derby for Folkwaves (a cost, no doubt shared among the three stations that recieve it) are PRS/MCPS payments. And this would be true, if it were to be replaced by another music show.
As far as I know, none of the people involved in Folkwaves are BBC employees, and are unpaid, which makes it less messy to get rid of them.

I think that the audience for Sport and Phone-Ins are perfectly catered for by 5-Live, and on the rare occasion that Derby or Notts Forest FCs have an FA Cup replay, then Folkwaves would step aside.
No. I fear It's going to be a Jeremy Kyle style phone In, pandering to the lowest common denominator of listener.

Just to let you know, I was a Group 2 Studio Manager in National Radio for 35 years, and I know all too well the machinations of BBC management, and I've heard all the excuses that come up with to justify their actions. Yes, I realise there is a license fee cap on the BBC, We must tighten our belts, etc...
Axe Folkwaves, and in a year the BBC would probably have saved enough money for one episode of Eastenders.
Oh, and like others, please don't dissapoint me with an automated reply. I'd rather you didn't reply at all.
So, please re-think this decision. Why not broadcast all your minority programmes between 2300 and 0100. After all, most people listen on line anyway, and are in very different time zones mainly. Particularly it's many fans in Europe America and Australia.
Getting rid of Lester and Mick, is not only getting rid of the Jewel in the Crown, It's also melting the Crown down for scrap.
I look forward to seeing your new schedule, and if it's a Phone In........ Expect some less kindly comments.

Looking forward to your considered reply

Yous Sincerely

Ralph Jordan (160340 retired)

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 02:01 AM

Don't know if there are any other iPM (Radio 4) listeners out there (if you don't know what it is, don't worry about it),
but I was thinking I might just send a "line" about being unhappy at the axing of Folkwaves to "Yournews"...

You never know -- if they get similar emails from a number of folks, they might be interested enough to look into it.
Then again, if they get a bunch of emails, they might decide it's a campaign and just ignore it -- but what have we got to lose?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 03:06 AM

Chris Williams MP (Derby North) has replied:
"Thanks David. This is bad news. I will make representations myself."
Wee shall see...

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:00 AM

Sad to think that following last night's broadcast there might only be two more editions of "Folkwaves" to go - some very interesting choices of songs too - if only those cloth-eared "suits" had heard it. The manner in which the programme was presented was a testimony to the professionalism of Mick and Lester - they certainly didn't let the side down, even after the way they have been treated.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,GUEST.B.I
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:22 AM

Dear Mr Imrie,

I know it is disappointing when a much loved programme comes to an end, and I always knew that taking Folkwaves off air would be a controversial decision among its core fans.

However, we beleive it's time to reach out to a wider variety of people in the early evening and create a new schedule for 2011.

Unfortuately, we don't have any spare broadcasting capacity to move Folkwaves elsewhere in the schedule.

On your point about internet reach, BBC Radio Derby, Nottingham and Leicester are part of BBC News and exist to serve local audiences, not to produce programmes that appeal to people all over the world.
My email to Stuart Thomas got the following reply.
Bob

While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer, I don't see it as a badge of honour if people are tuning in from all over the world - instead it makes me question if the programme is truely serving local audiences. The part of the licence fee that funds the BBC in the East Midlands is there to serve audiences in the East Midlands, and I take the responsibility of spending that money very seriously. I beleive it's important that as many people as possible should be served by the BBC in the East Midlands as possible.

Best regards


Stuart Thomas

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:24 AM

Belting reply Ralphie

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Dave Eyre
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:47 AM

While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer, I don't see it as a badge of honour if people are tuning in from all over the world - instead it makes me question if the programme is truly serving local audiences. The part of the licence fee that funds the BBC in the East Midlands is there to serve audiences in the East Midlands, and I take the responsibility of spending that money very seriously. I believe it's important that as many people as possible should be served by the BBC in the East Midlands as possible.

He is talking complete horlicks of course. If the programme was listened to by hundreds of thousands of people then he would think it was great.

The whole point of putting material on the internet is to widen audiences. So why put it on the internet if that is not the reason?


BBC Boss Wants to Cut Audiences makes a cracking headline!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 04:59 AM

I asked Stuart Thomas:
I wonder what research has suggested that fans of folk music are being "super-served" as stated in Simon Cornes' reply and why, even if this is true, the only alternative offered is not to serve this genre at all.

The current provision for this genre is 2 hours which, if the programme continued, would amount to about 1.5% of listening time. If the problem is that the programme is being broadcast at a peak listening time which you want to devote to local news, why is it not possible to move it to a different time slot? (Please also note that the "gig-guides" broadcast in the programme are a valuable source of information on local events and that live interviews on the programme are with local performers or national performers who are performing in the local area.)

He replied
I know it's always disappointing when a much loved programme comes to an end.

However we believe that the time slot should be serving a wider audience instead of only appealing to people who like a particular genre of music.

Unfortunately we do not have the airtime or broadcast capacity to fit these programmes into the schedule elsewhere.

Best regards


Stuart Thomas


I think one of us must be missing the point!

Still it must be irritating for him to have to get some skivvy to keep sending out replies.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: RamblinStu
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:01 AM

In response to my email to Stuart Thomas "It must prove difficult to replace a successful, interesting and popular programme, with ones which will be inferior in every respect, How do your justify that?"

I recieved this reply

Stuart,

Clearly we would not be changing the programme if we thought the replacement would be inferior. Our motivation is simply to make sure we use our valuable airtime to serve as many people in the East Midlands as possible. There's little point in "public service broadcasting" if a large amount of the public aren't listening.

Folkwaves is interesting, it is popular with a core loyal audience but we believe that we should now be providing a programme of wider appeal to all licence fee payers in that slot.

Stuart Thomas

Interesting eh

Stuart Pendrill

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:12 AM

I got the same reply to my email: While it is nice that people outside the East Midlands can hear our programmes via the iPlayer...

I replied:

"Whether you like it or not, my licence fee goes towards funding local radio all over the country. It is rare for me to find a programme that I don't mind that outrageous fee going towards. As you point out yourself, the way people consume media has changed. By seeking to be parochial you are ignoring the fact that Folkwaves, along with many other excellent local radio shows, are made available globally via the iPlayer. Unless you go to the lenghts of issuing a pass code to local listeners, these shows are going to reach a global audience.

"You question whether Folkwaves is serving the local community. Just listen to the gig guides and what's on sections of the show and I think your question will be answered.

"I applaud your desire to serve the local community, but by axing Folkwaves you are denying that very community access to a valuable programme. By using a broad brush approach you are, in fact, appearing to be a bit narrow minded."



To his credit, he does seem to be answering his emails.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:19 AM

Dear Mr Thomas

Thank you for replying to my post here so quickly and in person.

"I can also assure you I don't have a "skivvy" sending out replies, I read and reply to each email myself.

Stuart"

I thought, since you are obviously now monitoring this thread, that I would reply here rather than via your BBC email address.

I still cannot see, in your reply to me, how you have justified replacing the "super-service" of the folk minority with no service at all and we can only agree to disagree that the Radio Derby schedule is so full of good programmes that serve the majority that there is no space left at all for Folkwaves.

Nevertheless, thank you for your prompt and personal reply.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 05:58 AM

The contempt by BBC officials for people who dare to listen to local radio programmes from outside the area is ... well ... contemptuous...

Remember my earlier posting?:
"I notice, incidentally, that some months ago, you could click on local and regional radio from the main BBC home page, and then click Radio Derby. Now, when you try and access local radio from the homepage, they just ask for your postcode/town so that they can connect you with your local radio station. Well, I don't want the local radio station, I want Radio Derby. Have the BBC website people not heard of t'internet? or the iPlayer?"

It therefore seems to be a deliberate act of policy to direct internet listeners to their local station.

I think the various BBC officials miss the point about the idea of Folkwaves being "local". Yes, it's content should, and does, appeal to the local audiences seved by radio Derby and the other stations that broadcast it (gig guides, local artists, national artists appearing locally, etc), but I believe that listeners in Canada or Newcastle or Qatar appreciate that it has a local flavour - not from THEIR local area, but from A local area - rather than some sort of bland mid-Atlantic X Factor slush....

Derek

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:05 AM

It is just utter rubbish coming back from Thomas & Cornes.

They are sitting there earning a nice tidy penny and being yes men to the powers above them. After all they need to pay their mortgages.

They have no interest in serving minority music or anything else like that.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:23 AM

Given that he's reading the thread, perhaps Mr Thomas might explain how it is that – at a time when BBC Yorkshire local radios are being forced into cutting their local output – Radio Derby is expanding and has some dispensation to pour licence fee payers' cash into covering local 'breaking news' in the evening and night-time - when news doesn't happen.

What exactly is this 'programme of wider appeal' that he's got in mind for the people of Derby?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Sugwash
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:44 AM

"What exactly is this 'programme of wider appeal' that he's got in mind for the people of Derby?"

I don't know what they are planning to replace Folkwaves with, but I'd lay money that when it too gets axed for the next 'big idea', the 'wider audience' to which it is to appeal won't be clamouring to save it. Of course, I could be wrong...

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Millindale
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 06:57 AM

Ihave fired off an E-Mail to [e-mail] as follows. I realise it is specific to myself but there may be aspects of it which could be incorporated into others E-Mails in support of the best folk music show on the BBC.

Mr Thomas I am writing to you to complain about the decision to axe Radio Derbys Folkwaves show. I am a resident of North Yorkshire but listen to Folkwaves every week through the BBCs iPlayer. I used to listen to Radio Humbersides Henry Ayrton show- but it was axed. I used to listen to the folk show on Radio York- but it was axed. I used to listen to Alistair Andersons Folk show on Radio Cumbria- but it was axed. I used to listen to the folk music programme on Radio Sheffield- but that too was axed. Is it the intention of the BBC to remove all vestiges of British traditional music from the airwaves? I am a license payer and feel that I am being cheated of listening to aspects of my cultural heritage and instead being fed middle of the road pap.
I refer you to the exract from the BBCs local radio remit below.

Clause 5.3 of the BBC local radio remit under the BBC Local Radio Service Licence as published by the BBC Trust issued 27 March 2009 viz:

5.3 Stimulating creativity and cultural excellence: BBC Local Radio should contribute to this purpose amongst its audience. It should provide ...opportunities for new and emerging musicians from the local area and support local arts and music events by providing event information. Music output should be mainstream in peaktime and include specialist in off-peak hours. Specialist music should be appropriate to the area. Current and recent chart hits should represent no more than 15% of weekly music output."

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:12 AM

What is happening is nothing to do with any perceived need to serve the listeners better or to provide the "licence payers" with an improved service. Though all of those concerned reply with their standardised responses, that it is as a reult of a "wide-ranging review", the fact of the matter is that such actions are ingrained into the BBC philosophy. Ambitious BBC employees gain no kudos by presiding over a continuing success - they have to be seen to be proactive and so changes are made for changes sake, (or at least for the benefit of those having the power to make such changes). They are then senn to be "doing something", thus justifying their inflated salaries and improving their chances of promotion. ( and I have come to this conclusion through personal experience). All of which is good reason for not having some of these people in the first place! Perhaps that is how the licence payers would benefir most as there would be no need to employ those who have to justify their positions by tinkering with things of which they have little or no understanding.
But then, they DO always know what's best for us, don't they?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:41 AM

Perhaps it might be an idea to inform the 'powers that be' the numbers of posts on this thread in such a short time.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:49 AM

Previous experience shows that the 'powers that be' have already made up what passes for their minds, and will not be swayed by public opinion - despite the fact that we licence payers provide their fat salaries!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 07:52 AM

Reading various of the posts above it strikes me that Radio Derby are panic stricken at having somehow produced a program that is not only of regional standard but national standard and they are trying to reduce the quality of their output back to something only suitable for their local listeners!
Either this is a slur upon the populace of Derbyshire or they believe that they cannot take the pressure of having such a widely loved program on their station.

If it is replaced by a phone-in program as Ralphie suggests likey, what would happen if their phone lines and email inbox were swamped by listeners requesting their favourite folk track?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,S.G.
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:00 AM

Indeed, it might be worth drawing the attention of "the powers that be" to the numbers here, unfortunately I fear that they have no interest in nor will they take any notice of evidence: they see a need for change and will continue to ignore us. However, doing nothing is certainly not an option - maybe if we did keep reminding them of clause 5.3 of the Local Radio remit, ignoring their own words must be harder for them, mustn't it?

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:09 AM

The same situation from the jazz perspective.

"Dear All
BBC East Midlands Radio has decided to axe all it's specialist music programmes that b/cast on week day night's from 7 - 9pm from 31st of December this year, and of course that includes 'Jazz Incorporated'.
Past management, perhaps recognising the licence payer should have a choice, supported a Jazz programme on Radio Nottingham in various forms for 38 years and for the past few years 'Jazz Inc.' was b/cast to Radio Lincoln, Leicester and Derby, as well as Nottinghamshire, and the programme was available 'on line' and 'listen again'.

'Jazz Inc.' went out 'live' on Thursday evening every week from the BBC Radio Nottingham studio's, I scripted the programme, selected the music using my own CD's (some provided by suppliers) , operated the desk, produced the programme (whatever that means!), even made my own coffee! I was the sole member of the 'team' listeners used to refer to. Nobody from the BBC management ever queried what I was going to play or say on the programme, and wherever possible 'Jazz inc' promoted the local Jazz scene with the gig diary, playing CD's by Jazz artists appearing in the East Midlands.

This above is not meant as a 'self promoting' exercise, but just to say that we as Jazz fans have really lost a great deal with 'Jazz Inc.' finishing completely, it was totally independent, no commercial restraints or interference, just a Jazz fan playing the music to like minds. Hopefully my enthusiasm came over on the 'live' programme, I know it gave me an incredible 'buzz'!

'Jazz Inc. will never re-emerge, with BBC East Midlands Radio finishing it's specialist music programmes, it's the end of an era on OUR Local Radio, the days of the enthusiastic knowledgeable presenter broadcasting music under the conditions I've just described above are over.

Sadly, despite me putting up a spirited defence (and no doubt the 'Folk' 'Country and 'Celtic Fringe' presenters did the same) management had made their minds up that the licence payers in the East Midlands would be better served by extending the Radio Nottingham daytime listening programmes into the evening schedules. Enjoy!

Regards
                Chris Moore (presenter BBC East Midlands 'Jazz Incorporated')

P.S. If you feel strongly about this please address your remarks to BBC Radio Nottingham Management, I'll be making an announcement to listeners in the next Jazz Inc. programme. Thanking you in advance for your support, though It'll be to late to alter minds, and feel free to forward this e-mail to any 'like minds'."

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Lucy Wright
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:30 AM

This makes me so sad.. i just sent off a few emails to register my disappointment, but don't expect any great insight or result from them. What does it take for our voices to be heard?!!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

so it's evening phone-ins not just for derby, but nottingham and leicester too. you lucky people!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

Lets face it in England the BBC hate any minority music except classical. They only let the Mike Harding show go ahead because he plays so much pop, rock and C/W drivel, for fecks sake he even did a whole show of Beatles song, but the Beeb love it.

Dave H

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:44 AM

The community sports centre we attend in the evenings pipes constant local radio into the exercise studios and gym.
I don't know or care if it's a BBC or commercial station, all I do know is it's sonically harsh droning irritating non-stop inane brain numbing shit.

But, if this is representative of the intended target audience listening environment
then I suppose I can understand the poor quality decisions of insecure local radio executives
and why they are so anxious to drop 'serious minded' minority interest Folk and Jazz...

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 08:59 AM

.. and amidst this relentless onslaught of tinny chat and gossip drivel pumping out of room surrounding speakers;
and football and soaps monopolysing the silent TV screens hanging over the exercise bikes;
most of the people sweating it out exercising are obliviously occupying their own private little worlds,
earphones firmly plugged in listening to their own personal stereos.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:12 AM

Hey Breznev, don't you go forgetting Lincolnshire. :-)

We have a very thriving folk community and Folkwaves was included on Radio Lincolnshire.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM

Perhaps Mick and Lester could take heart from what happened in April 2006 at BBC GMR (now Radio Manchester again).

Ali O'Brien and I used to present 'Sounds of Folk' until the Beeb did exactly what they are now doing to Radio Derby, and axed all the 'Specialist Music' programming.

As the programme format, etc., is Ali's 'Intellectual Copyright' we simply moved the programme over to Oldham Community Radio 99.7fm, which is also streamed on the (internet), complete with 'Listen Again' going back to March this year!

They've even rearranged the schedule around us over Christmas and New Year - we're doing a two hour Christmas Special on Christmas Eve from 6.00pm to 8.00pm, which will be repeated the following Monday at the same time, and a New Year Special on New Year's Eve from 6.00pm to 8.00pm, also repeated on the following Monday.

We only ever experienced negativity and complaints from the management at the Beeb... at Oldham Community Radio the station manager, Dave McGealy, often sends us text messages to say how much he and his wife are enjoying listening to the programme...

Would we go back to the Beeb? Not a chance - they kept cancelling our programme at short notice for 'sports coverage'...!! The equipment we're using is first class - state of the art Soundcraft digital broadcast desk and P-Squared's 'Myriad'... we couldn't be happier!

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: brezhnev
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:17 AM

Ooops! sorry, lincolnshire, you're getting a phone-in too.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 09:21 AM

Don't forget to rattle your MP's cages too.
If you don't know who it is you can find their addresses at:
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

Cheers.
Dave B.

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 10:02 AM

Schlimerkerl, The 3d picture with the letters and numbers, have been changed to 2d and should be easier to see now. Give it another go.

Subject: Folklore: Folkie In group mentality causes cuts
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:00 AM

Yes indeed even in England.....where folkies have been assuring me ad nausium that the community is large and strong and expanding.....a folk program which was excellent is being canceled- Folkwaves- a very good program. They have sent me off to buy more cds than I have purchased in years. The reason- essential cuts in "minority programming" There are not very many BBC folk programs so the loss of two hours once a week is a big deal.

so there you have it- the concept that folk music is best when a small moribund small never expanding poltically selective community keeps the genre minority and then when cuts come the folkies narrow as they are get axed.

We have to expand. this means accessibility, lower costs, a living music, political diversity and less emphasis on performing as a business. it must be in the community living. it must grow.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,SteveT
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:02 AM

To those of you suggesting that "it might be worth drawing the attention of "the powers that be" to the numbers here," – certainly Mr Thomas is already aware of the Mudcat thread as he has replied to my posts placed here.

I can see that Radio Derby or even the East Midlands region is unlikely to be swayed by much of what has become a lament for the lack of folk music nationally on the BBC and, probably, any arguments put forward need to concentrate on the local nature of Folkwaves if they are to carry any weight.

It seems that Folkwaves has been providing what the national BBC stations have failed to do. More credit still to Mick & Lester but still no good news for us previously super-served minority.

Subject: BS: Narrow Minded Folk World Looses Program
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM

As many know- the BBC has cut the wondrous programme Folkways.
The reason cited- minority interest programming must be cut.

This supports my long held point of view that the folk music community needs to be less narrowly defined, more politically divers, more tolerant of non professionals and more accessible to all income levels-lower prices at venues, smaller audiences, less pro more every day. Less performance only more a way of life.

the cutting of folkwaves for the reason cited underscores the danger in the common view that folk music "is not for everyone" and that it can manage as a small select group which is not politically diverse and that professionalization and rising costs of venues do not matter.

When the community remains minority it can not be sustained.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 11:55 AM

Listened to the beginning of the end show today via play it again.
It is indeed sad.

I would however recommend that any and all folk presenters in the UK working with bbc make full and active use of networking sites like facebook and twitter not just when they are going down the tubes but every programme.

one good example of how this works is Sunday Folk. Ms Tudor does a great job of integrating the programme with the facebook community live.not perfect as there could be a bit more consistant interchange but gettin there..

i stopped in to Mick and Lesters facebook group page and found very little activity at all. i wont say that the inattention did them in but it did not position them as well as it could be.

Facebook provides an excellent free service that allows the presenter to connect with tousands. Ms tudor has also responded immediately to questions about the music in regard to sources and contacts and has incorporated the facebook banter into the show. this strategy puts the presenter on the best possible track. it also helps me get recordings sooner and complete important research efficiently.

another important thing to emphasis is the importance of folk music programs in the UK for cd sales and demand for concerts abroad. I started regular listening via the web about a year ago. My cd purchases have escalated at an alarming rate, ever since. Multiply this over a few hundred and it becomes an important part of the UK economy or at least the folkie economy.

Another huge problem is the reluctance of some folkies who expressed their opinions over and over on a related thread that there was nothing wrong with the folk world being small and politically narrow. There was nothing in their view wrong with playing in expensive rather than accessible settings.

Well folkies....that is why the BBC could use the theory that Minority programming could and should be cut.

Lower venue costs, broaden political expression, more ordinary players not so much emphasis on performers and you will see the folk music community grow.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 12:03 PM

Sorry for the many posts I intended them and sent them in as new thread I only wanted to create one thread discussing the importance of expansion of the folk world beyond the Minority programming that it is considered now. My posts were re directed here by the unseen hand.....

It is important to discuss the view by some that the folk world is ok as a small group with its politics and world view narrowly defined. When this happens we loose programming and other benefits.

Conrad

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,judy hardman
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:09 PM

I listen regularly to Folkwaves and don't know what I would do my ironing to if it goes. I have read all the suggestions in the thread and have now emailed, sent a Christmas card to Lester and Mick, signed the petition on the facebook page and am about to mobilise Black Annis (womens morris) to start stalking radio editors.....

Subject: RE: The end of Folkwaves
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 14 Dec 10 - 01:18 PM

Direct militant action may be required at some stage.

Ready and prepare our most turgid and honking club ballad singers
to wrap up warm and station themselves with high power megaphones
24/7 outside the homes of key BBC senior radio executives...


..errrmm, on 2nd thoughts..???