BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family

Subject: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: robomatic
Date: 03 May 08 - 12:51 PM

From Detroit, a university professor attending a ball game with his 7 year old son purchased for said son what he thought was lemonade in a bottle. What it actually was was "Mike's Hard Lemonade" which I believe is 5% alcohol. A security guard spotted the kid sipping the drink, and took matters into his own hands. The drink was confiscated, the kid was taken to the hospital and checked out. Not drunk. Child Protective Services (CPS) was called. Kid was posted to foster care. After some legal wrangling, kid was allowed home, IF father removed himself from the household.

hard lemonade, hard choice

Right now I'm thinking that the parent could have been a bit more careful with a bottled drink with which he was not familiar. But this is MINOR MINOR stuff, and overkill on the part of the authorities particularly the guard who got the ball rolling.

So is this a case of horrible parenting? Authoritarian overkill? An unfortunate consequence of society's attempt to deal with actual horrible parents? Does the story ring true?

Or should one bring one's own canteen of water to Detroit at-homes?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Becca72
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:10 PM

I think it is an unfortunate consequence of society's attempt to deal with actual horrible parents.

In fairness to the security guard/state/whatever it does read "Hard Lemonade" very clearly on the bottle...you'd think a professor would know what that means. It does sound like an honest if somewhat stupid mistake and not one that warrants having your child taken away, but the same laws must apply to everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Peace
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:18 PM

He will appeal and win. The authorities have been stupid in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:23 PM

Funny, but though I'm 50, I hadn't heard of hard lemonade until about a year ago. Cider, of course, but not lemonade.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:32 PM

I agree with John. Someone had to explain to me what "hard" lemonade was. Looking at the label and advertising If I had to guess, I'd think that there was more alcohol in "Rock Star", Red Bull" or certainly Mountain Dew.

I wonder how many security guards and other concerned people, across this country just walk up to such parents and say "I guess you don't know that crap is an alcoholic beverage? "

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Ed T
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:35 PM

appleby restaurant+serving booze to kids

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Ed T
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:37 PM

Remember this news story?


http://www.nbc11.com/news/13509438/detail.html

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Emma B
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:40 PM

'47-year-old archaeology professor Chris Ratte is perhaps not the most careful of parents; he says he didn't realize when he bought a $7 "Mike's Hard Lemonade" at a Tigers game, it was an alcoholic beverage (all of 10 proof), and let his 7-year-old son Leo drink the 12-ounce bottle. A vendor noticed the boy with the drink; the boy had no symptoms of inebriation but said he was nauseated; and stadium officials, in a prime example of defensive overreaction, summoned an ambulance, which found Leo fine with no trace of alcohol in his system.'

Although the police reportedly believed Ratte's story that it was all a big mistake, supervisors said that protocol MANDATED that the state department of Children's Protective Services be called. CPS agents then told Ratte that the whole thing was "unnecessary," while regretfully insisting that they too had to follow the rules and take Leo into custody.

'Mike Patterson, Child and Family Services director for the Wayne County district that includes Comerica Park, said that in general his agency's discretion is limited once police obtain a court order to remove a child from the parental home -- usually authorized, as in Leo's case, by a juvenile court referee responding to a police officer's recommendation.

"Once the court has authorized a child's removal," Patterson told me, "we cannot return the child to the parental custody" until the court has OK'd it.

Sounds like an over reaction by everyone involved and an inflexible system.

Fortunately Leo was reunited with his family in a couple of days maybe if Ratte and his wife weren't upper-middle-class academics with access to the University of Michigan Law School clinic professors, it could have been much worse?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: CarolC
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:46 PM

I think that kid is probably very traumatized from this experience, and I think that's a big shame. I think they could have done a better job of actually protecting that kid.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 May 08 - 01:50 PM

If the kid had NO ALCOHOL in his system, why wasn't the whole thing stopped at that point?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 May 08 - 02:03 PM

And the other thing, too, is when at a place such as a ball park, you usually CANNOT bring your own beverages -- even water. Because they sell beverages, a person may not bring his own (or snacks, either) into the venue.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Emma B
Date: 03 May 08 - 02:42 PM

Beats me Jack - but that was the news report!

The apparently draconian and inflexible response reminds me of a previous news story discussed here; it appears as though jacqui c's 'automatic track' description and that old chestnut 'standard practice' was in operation again!

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: sapper82
Date: 03 May 08 - 04:07 PM

Didn't the bottle of drink carry a warning that it was an alcoholic beverage? Because of my work I often stick to soft drinks when staying away from home and the labeling of some "alco-pops" is very similar to many soft drinks.

The States seems to have a VERY puritanical streak in many ways.

There was also the case in, I think, Texas, where the legal drinking age is 21. The mother of an 18yo lad went to prison for supplying alcohol to him and his friends at his birthday party.

She made what a lot of us in the UK would consider to be a wise decision to provide a limited amount of alcohol in a controled and supervised situation to prevent their son and his friends from getting illegal supplies and possibly getting themselves into serious trouble away from the home.

The party was very successful and passed off safely, but she was apparently prosecutted when the parents of one of the other youths made a complaint.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 May 08 - 05:09 PM

It was bought at the food stand where the sign offered "Mike's Lemonade". He gave it to the kid thinking it was lemonade. Do you read the label on a can of soda purchased at a ball game as you juggle hot dogs, fries, chips, etc?
Why didn't the guard simply ask him if he knew his child was drinking alcohol?
Why weren't the social workers protecting kids really in danger instead of wasting time, money, and effort on a case which never should have come before them in the first place?
I wonder how many children were scalded, beaten and burned in Detroit that night while no one cared?
Meantime, this boy has been traumatized, taken from his family, potentially put in the hands of child molestors (I know too much about the foster home system in large cities).
Pure bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 May 08 - 06:25 PM

The stuff shouldn't be called "lemonade", period. "Hard lemonade" gives the impression that the beverage's alcohol is derived from natural fermentation of lemonade in the same fashion that hard cider is derived from table cider. It's not. The stuff is nothing but a cocktail make of lemon juce, carbonated water, and vodka.

I think the guy should file suit against the ballpark for having sold the stuff without making it perfectly clear that it is an alcoholic beverage.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Bobert
Date: 03 May 08 - 06:49 PM

Beam me up.....

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 May 08 - 09:19 PM

The key word here is 'hard'. Hard means alcoholic in the States. We have 'cider' in the grocery stores...basically apple juice. You must buy 'hard' cider in a liquor store, NOT a grocery store.

If the word 'Hard' was NOT in PLAIN view on the sign (it IS on the label...I've seen it) then YES, the vendor was negligient. My next question is WHY (apparently) both alcoholic and Non alcoholic beverages were being served from the same window. USUALLY that is NOT the case in US sports venues. You want booze, go Here. You want Not Booze, go there.

And yes, the 'Booze'vendors DO have the non alcoholic sodas for 'mixers' but NOT plain lemonade.

The dad made a mistake. The kid will live, and a lot of people will have egg on their faces.

Yes, I agree that a LOT of things are wrong with this scenario, including the response of law enforcement and child services, but I understand the child is back home and the father has sued over the brouaha.

Part of the problem seems to be that NO parent is seemingly able to do the 'right thing' without LOTS of outside help....oh give me a break.

I'm getting really tired of Big Brother having fingers in every pie.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 May 08 - 09:22 PM

Correction to my post above:

Lemon juice, carbonated water, and vodka is the recipe for Mike's Hard Lemonade as distributed in Canada. The product distributed in the US under the same name is a malt beverage with lemon flavor added. Either way, it's still not lemonade that's "gone hard".

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Slag
Date: 03 May 08 - 09:54 PM

People who do not use alcohol probably don't understand the meaning of "hard". When you stop to consider all the other stuff out there like Jolt and Red Bull and Energy X or whatever, Mike's Hard looks like just another gimmick drink pushing caffine or sugar. Remeber the day when common sense ruled and virtually anyone in that guard's situation would have said "Say friend, do you know that is an alcoholic drink?" where upon the errant parent (!) would have said "Wow! No, i didn't know. thanks for telling me,. and that would have been the end of it, except perhaps the guard would have continued to observe to make sure that it was just an honest mistake. I guess this is what you get in a over-active "Nanny State". A giant game of "Gotcha"!

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 May 08 - 11:26 AM

here is the label

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 May 08 - 12:18 PM

Someone above said something to the effect of "Yes, the vendor was negligent."

Not necessarily. Nothing I've read or heard says that the server even saw the kid. It's far from uncommon for an adult, at a concession in the crowded, hurried atmosphere of a public event, to put in one order for his entire party, and I don't know that that wasn't the case here. If so, an adult orders lemonade, the server sells him the lemonade they carry, takes the money, etc. Big deal. And we don't know what if any other beverage(s) were in the order.

Even if the kid was in view beside papa, if papa only ordered one beverage, the server couldn't know who was going to consume it. The server isn't required to be a mind reader.

Moreover, as I heard this story on NPR, just about every "authority figure" along the way said something to the effect of "I don't really want to do this, but it's the procedure."

"The procedure" in this and many like cases is a convenient excuse for stupid or negligent people to avoid involving themselves and actually using some judgment. Just about anywhere along the line, from security guard to judge to CPS, someone with half a brain and some dollop of conscience could have stopped this thing.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:12 PM

The vendor's negligence was not in selling the product to the father, but in his failure to plainly identify it as an alcoholic beverage on his menu placard. If his menu had listed available non-alcoholic beverages and alcoholic beverages separately, the mistake would never have happened.

I don't drink. That means that when I'm making a beverage choice for myself I ignore beer and wine lists. Simple enough. It's apparent that the father in this case wasn't afforded that simple tool to help him make his decision.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:46 PM

Sins -- I couldn't agree more -- what bullshit. Scott Simon did an essay on it on Weekend Edition Saturday and as we listened, my husband I thought initially it was a joke.........; total absurd overreaction by everyone involved........

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:51 PM

Many years ago I was sitting on a back step playing guitar and sipping rye. I heard my German Shepherd drinking behind me where her water dish was. It was right beside where I'd put my glass. Yeah, you're right. Poor old thing was pissed about 15 minutes later. I nursed her through her hangover. She then lived until she died years later. PLEASE don't tell the SPCA about that episode or I shall live the rest of my life in shame, my6 company abandoned by even the dregs of society. A more caring owner would have been drinking rye from a hermetically sealed container with a one-way straw. Mea culpa. Beside, WTF knew a dog would drink rye?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:52 PM

. . . with no mix?

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Jeri
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:55 PM

My aunts used to get me pissed when I was a little kid. A sip here, a sip there, and none knew the others were giving me sips. I didn't even like the taste, but the twisted old bats offered a sip for a kiss, and I was a kissy little kid.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:57 PM

Sorcha,
Every ball park I have visited including Yankee Stadium, Shea, Wrigley Field, etc serves beer and soft drinks from the same counter. Pop corn, hot dogs, pretzels, fries - all at the same counter.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 08 - 06:46 PM

I know what goes into hotdogs and it ain't healthy for kids. On this the SPCA SHOULD be called.

Subject: RE: BS: Mike's Hard Lemonade Breaks Up Family
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 May 08 - 10:08 PM

Life really sucks, and then you die. Go figure.