BS: The rich subjugate the poor.

Subject: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 08 May 12 - 06:38 PM

I've said it for years. This guy says it a LOT better.

BTW... it's 2:12h long but WELL worth it. Pass it along. Everyone that has access to the internet SHOULD watch this. Yeah, he talks about ETs for a while but the stuff about energy and banking and such is REALLY worth watching at close to an hour in. SERIOUSLY.

Thanks for sending me the link, Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 May 12 - 08:03 PM

Yup.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 May 12 - 08:21 PM

Thanks, gnu!! I watched about the first three minutes of it. I don't have time right now, but it's a MUST SEE!

To quote the great Arnold Schwarzenegger, "I'll be back!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 08 May 12 - 08:37 PM

Rap... cool.

I hope this vid gets a lot of play. The fact that he exposes the energy rip off is great. Few people know of Tesla and others and their energy tech. Free energy, delivered anywhere in the world without a "power grid" is proven yet denied. The fact that he exposes the money ripoff by the rich is AMAZING. This guy is laying his life on the line.. he names names!

Of course, it's far more compicated than meets the eye in a two hour video, but it's a step in understanding the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 May 12 - 04:19 AM

Haven't watched yet, but heard of a new rip-off yesterday.

The guy came to assess my property for PV panels on the roof. Over here, we have this scheme whereby if we fit these, not only do we get free electricity, but also can put current back in the grid and get paid for it. This was quite lucrative when first introduced, but is now being tapered off. And why?

The money was coming from a 3p addition to each electricity bill (£ in the bill, not sure about that), from everyone. So people without the option of having panels were paying the better off to do so.

But it got worse. Some companies were set up which would fit the panels free, in return for the payment for the power, while the house owner only got the free power they used themselves. And would find it hard to sell on with the leased panels of little benefit to the new owner.

I knew all this before, but not that the companies were being operated by hedge fund types, and the whole thing had turned into a scam for pumping money from the poor to the rich.

So the government has cut the payments, rather than make the ripoff illegal.

So long as I get a fair return for the power I generate, I'm happy. And less heat coming in through the roof in the summer and leaving in the winter. And the ability to do the washing in the daytime without feeling I'm wasting money.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 12 - 01:22 PM

The Tax System explained in beer

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this..

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10"

"Yes, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me"

"That's true" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill.

And that, boys and girls, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 12 - 01:52 PM

Simplistic nonsense from a crackpot.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 12 - 02:15 PM

Possibly but probably a Tory crackpot thank Clapton!

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 12 - 03:12 PM

I would like to stress again that the first part of the video talks about aliens. The arguements are "compelling" and educational in a way but I've never seen any. I just don't want any viewers to "change the channel" until the see the whole video. Soooo... if ya get the urge to click it off, try to fast forward to the good stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 12 - 07:24 PM

I'm certain that if aliens came to the US they'd be declared "illegal," clapped into irons, and returned from whence they came.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 12 - 07:53 PM

Rap... depends on what kinda cash money they have to grease the palm.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 May 12 - 09:46 PM

Well, the ones that are said to have landed in Roswell were all cut up about landing here. And they only wanted a place to crash.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 12 - 11:40 PM

this appears to be david icke propaganda. icke is a new age nazi, in additon to being a crackpot. he has published openly racist things about jews and celtc. the latter being the particular fixation of the british fascist movement that icke got most of his ideas from. they think the celts fucked up the empire. i wish we had but sadly after conquest we contributed much to the misery of imperialism.

icke delared himself jesus christ some twenty years ago. you domn't need aliens nor his silly ideas to see that unregulated capitalism leads to the leading capitalist stealing all the money. in the eighties it was the chicago merchantile exchange scandal where a third of the people involved were taking clients money and simply issuing paer showing how it was lost , with no actual trades going on, to the ninties junk bonds and bank scandals to the recent melt down. the last being on a new scale. they learned from the junk bond scandal that if you control the federal reserve , the regulators and the politicians then you don't have to go to jail for stealing all the money. uintill of course the whole thing collapsed.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: John P
Date: 09 May 12 - 11:59 PM

Are you saying that right-wingers aren't aliens?? Now I'm all confused. What are they then?

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Ringer
Date: 10 May 12 - 05:13 AM

"I would like to stress again that the first part of the video talks about aliens."

Let me get this straight, gnu: the first part of the video, about aliens, makes it obvious that the presenter is a crackpot; evidence is given by David Icke, who is off the crackpot scale as pointed out by Guest above; but you expect us to take the economic and energy bits of the same video seriously?

I fear you and I are on different planets.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 May 12 - 05:52 AM

The rich subjugate the poor. You don't say! Who would have thought that?

"Dog bites man" is not news.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: GUEST,petecockermouth
Date: 10 May 12 - 06:30 AM

Watch Mouseland by Tommy Douglas on you tube.a short animation (4 minutes)

maybe some people are just amazed that this scam (global capitalism)has been going on for ever and everywhere and they have not understood it leads them to excuse themselves by such elaborate and fanciful theories. rather than admit they were foolish to not listen to what the socialislts/humanists were saying all along it is less shameful to claim that we have all been abducted by aliens or wotever. there is much that is good in the film if you skip over astrology and icke etc but for a much sharper and shorter (about 4 minutes) analysis of the 'system' watch Mouseland on you tube. it's by Tommy Douglas -(donald sutherland's dad) who is described as the greatest ever canadian (after joni, and neil young obviously) (and leonard)
peace and love

pete

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 10 May 12 - 06:37 PM

Ringer... readers can read my post and understand it's intentions. They don't need you to take snippets out of context, twist their meaning and then attempt to make them fit your posts.

You posted "... you and I are on different planets." Not just a good joke but true.

As for any arguement of my intentions, you have your opinions and I have mine... these disagree. I will not discuss this further with you. The readers can read.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: meself
Date: 11 May 12 - 10:08 AM

Donald Sutherland's father-in-law, I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 12 - 03:37 PM

"The poor are poor, we feel sorry for them but there it is."

said by Henry Wilcox played by Anthony Hopkins in Howards End - an excellent film!!

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 May 12 - 08:39 PM

Odd how posts to a thread sometimes are put together to give a wrong impression.

My remark about simplistic nonsense was directed at the "Thrive" offering linked at the first post.
It got posted behind Dr. Kamerschen's little fable, which is worth reading, whether one follows his reasoning or not.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 May 12 - 06:48 PM

That little fable is precisely why no political party dare take on the bankers in any but the mildest of ways, because the spectre of the rich taking themselves off to, say, China or India, is very real indeed.

They would be welcomed with open arms and we w2ould be royally f**Ked.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 20 May 12 - 12:08 PM

William Blum got it about right
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=227193637354710&set=a.152909181449823.37002.152358668171541&type=1&theater

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 12 - 02:01 PM

Tug... there ya go eh?

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:17 PM

Watch the documentary coming out soon called "The Heist".

Rich subjugating the poor? That's what OWS has been telling everyone.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 May 12 - 12:26 PM

Fuck, it isn't subjugation until it hits YOU--whoever YOU is. THEN it's bad. This shit has been coming for years. Bankers/Wall Street/VRPs have been ripping folks off for ages. It ain't no surprise, and if it is, it shouldn't be. OK, so maybe yer too young to recall the Depression, but most of you ain't too young to recall 1982. Well folks, here it is again (still).

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 12 - 01:19 PM

I think it is a matter of porportion, not of basic function. Taking risks and inventing companies is a valuable service; the point is that it is not several thousand times more valuable than running lathes or coordinating marketing or sweeping floors. It's the ratio that has grown obscene. I have no complaints if a man starts a company, makes it grow by sweating bullets day and night, and makes a whole lot more, once it is running profitably, than, say, a CNC mill operator who goes home at 4 every day and never worries about the company being there next week.

But the ratios being practiced by financial uppity-ups are obscene beyond any practical rationale except greed and self-interest.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 May 12 - 07:23 PM

I have no argument with that position Amos. In fact I agree wholeheartedly that the ratio is absolutely unjustifiable.

I do however object to people whose position is not that they wish they had more, but rather that they wish all rich people stripped of all that they have.

I can't subscribe to that kind of malicious envy, and I can't see any merit in their position at all. It is both negative and destructive and, if their desire were ever achieved, the poor wouldn't benefit in the least.

I would classify myself as one of the poorest ten percent of UK citizens, and price increases hit me harder than most, but we have financial problems which need sorting and I'm not complaining about taking my share of the hurt.

Of one thing I am sure. I may sometime find myself being helped by the charitable activities of some of those rich people, but I'm damn sure I'll get damn all help from the "I hate the rich and want them destroyed" Brigade.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: The rich subjugate the poor.
From: gnu
Date: 21 May 12 - 08:11 PM

I don't hate ALL the rich. Just those that use the poor as pawns... especially when they send the poor young to kill and die for their wealth. If you cite me for that...