BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?

Subject: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 May 10 - 06:32 AM

Is it just me or is anyone else having a problem giving a shit about their effect on the planet after the current and ongoing BP debacle?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 May 10 - 06:45 AM

We have a phenomenon in Scotland called 'Muirburn' this is when they burn off stretches of old heather, to encourage new growth, the shoots of which, grouse apparently enjoy eating.
Some years ago, farmers were prohibited from burning the stubble, left after harvest. This was on the grounds of atmospheric pollution [sic]
Burning stubble puts potash back into the ground, and aids fertility.
Shooting grouse is an elitist sport, and does nobody any good at all.
Guess who has the most money, and therefore influence, the toffs with their guns, or the farmers?
Another by product of the quest to blast wee birds out of the sky, is the deliberate poisoning of protected birds of prey, by gamekeepers. This is done to stop them taking the poor wee grouse, which can only be killed by toffs. who don't live there, as opposed to Hen Harriers and Red Kites, who do live there.
So obviously the carbon footprint of the rich doesn't count.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: gnu
Date: 22 May 10 - 08:15 AM

Indeed. Re the oil "spill", John, it might not take very long for it to reach Scotland. Once it gets into the Gulf Stream, it'll foul the Eastern Seaboard at least as far as Nova Scotia and then head across the pond.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 May 10 - 09:25 AM

Yeah, Spaw, I know what you mean.

People criticize others for using a plastic grocery bag while the NASCAR races go on and the jets roar overhead, carrying people to business meetings that could probably be taken care of by phone.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Bert
Date: 22 May 10 - 11:02 AM

It does kinda put the exhaust from your lawnmower in a new perspective.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 10 - 11:16 AM

My carbon footprint is as low as it's always been. I'm more concerned about the people who died on the platform and how to prevent it in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 May 10 - 12:00 PM

Just because big corporations are not being held to account, does not mean individuals shouldn't do as much as they can to care for the planet.

Maybe I can only change my little bit. But at least I try, which is more than some folks can say.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 22 May 10 - 01:21 PM

Yes, it's very discouraging and the effects of this disaster will be felt for generations, but it shouldn't change how you live, if you've been making efforts to live as best you can environmentally, continue on. Every little bit helps and as Rapaire said, part of what will help will be finding out why it happened.

Also- I wish we could do away with this "carbon footprint" slogan, it's become very Hollywood. Didn't we used to just say "environmentally aware" or something?

David E.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 May 10 - 01:22 PM

Interesting responses..........all good but very different.

Rapaire, I never meant to diminish the human tragedy here in any way. My original thought when posting this was more along the lines of Bert's post.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 May 10 - 01:24 PM

Cross posted David, but if you can figure out a way to rid ourselves of the phrase and about a hundred others I also hate on ohter subjects, let me know!(;<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 10 - 01:30 PM

Going forward, I'll be there to help at that point in time.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 10 - 03:52 PM

Although directed at the BP blowout, Catspaw has raised the question of personal attitudes and responsibility in reducing the 'carbon footprint' - but if my neigborhood is any criterion, most people care little, or don't think about their actions.
The city has distributed bins to homeowners in which to put recyclable materials. The Scouts and other organizations have bottle drives because glass bottles are worth a nickle and plastic drink containers (now including plastic milk containers) also are redeemable. Moreover, stores have to put a charge on these containers to encourage recycling.

But people often don't bother. Cardboard boxes are large, so they go into garbage rather than being cut up to fit in the recycle bins. After school, kids stop at dairy queen or whatever, buy a drink, and throw the container on the nearest lawn or into the street. Homeless people perform a service by collecting discarded containers and redeeming them at bottle depots.
Apartment buildings, etc., are outside of the home collection system.

Go to a mountain campground, and look at the trash thrown into the bush.

We encourage the use of plastics, most with hydrocarbon components. My camera is plastic, not metal. My backyard table and chairs are plastic. My computer body is plastic. In fact, much of the 'hardware' around my home is plastic.
We never think about these items, but they require hydrocarbons that come from oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 10 - 04:07 PM

My computer's case is metal. Nearly all of my flashlights are metal, and the batteries from EVERYTHING go to the hazardous waste collection site. We have recycled since at least 1973. We don't compost, but now that I'm retired we may start.

I can't make anyone do anything; I can only be responsible for myself and God knows, that's enough of a job.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: GUEST,David E.
Date: 22 May 10 - 05:10 PM

"I can only be responsible for myself..."

Our city has a good (I thought) recycling program in place and from what I can tell, most of the people living on our street are good about using it. Two weeks ago I was at our front window having my morning coffee, watching the birds at the feeder, when the garbage truck pulls up, grabs and dumps the garbage, then pulls up three feet, grabs the recycling and dumps that in to his truck as well! I'll be curbside waiting for him this week!

David E.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 10 - 05:22 PM

We have separate garbage and recycling trucks in Calgary. It works, but some people don't care.

Sometimes I can't help myself and pull something from a neighbor's garbage. One threw out a computer and keyboard, the latter looked good. My daughter knew how to adapt it and another of my kids is using it because it was better than his.
Also a good set of fireplace tools, a box of wine glasses- OK, I'm part of the magpie- camp robber clans.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: GUEST,eric the viking
Date: 22 May 10 - 06:48 PM

Tesco on Orkney today has: River cobbler from Vietman, Plums from South Africa, Strawberries from Spain,Asparagus from Peru,Chicken from Tailand,Bananas from Ecuador,Pineapple from "The tropics" etc etc. It did have some Orkney beef and Scotish potatoes and neeps For us it's a thirty five mile round trip in the car to town using probably the highest cost diesel in the UK (£1.30 a litre)

We have the community waste area just near us. Mrs V and I used to separate all our differn t materials.But Orkney sends everything to Shetland to be incinerated to keep them warm.

Carbon footprint........ a term used to make us feel guilty about things almsot completely out of our control(And in the UK to lead increased taxation). Of course we can avoid buying the products that travel great distances, but it would take an almost total boycot to have an effect and then what would happen to the local economies that produce the product?

There is no avoiding the carbon footprint and it can't be reduced easily. Very few people can sustain them selves even in Orkney which is lush and has the greatest head of beef per human head of population. Almost everything else has to be carried onto the islands by a long road journey and then boat where ever it comes from in the UK or from abroad.

Cynical, I know but no matter how much it concerns me I can not find a way of altering things. If we in the west (UK, europe and the USA) are continually creating this and looking for solutions, imagine how bad the developing nations are at making carbon footprints without redress.

But then we get huge oil spills that make a few jet planes across the atlantic small stuff and of course the odd volcano.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 May 10 - 06:54 PM

Kansas has lagged miserably with respect to recycling, but the local city/county has at last come up with a "program."

Under this program, residents may request a separate "recyclables" cart. You receive "credits" for the amount (by weight) of recyclables picked up in the recyclables barrel.

Advertisements that are much too frequent on local TV proclaim that you can get all your trash service for $8 per month by recycling. They NEVER STATE what it costs if you don't recycle.

The County Transfer Station has come up with what they call "single stream recycling" in which you don't sort the recyclables. They dump it all on a conveyer and transfer station workers sort it there.

HOW IT ACTUALLY WORKS

You pay $40 per month for trash pickup.

Advertisers pay the "trash guys" to distribute advertising coupons for them.

It's unconfirmed, but indications are that the haulers do get a kickback from the transfer station based on any "cost recovery" from the recyclables - undoubtedly in cash, or as a discount on dumping fees.

The "credits" you get are all in coupon books for "discounts" at "current fad" restaurants much too expensive for me to be interested in, "travel discounts" for those who wish to take annual trips to Slobbovistan, discounts for "tanning salons," non-licensed "orthopedic shoe sales outlets," grocers trying to unload "near out of date" stock, free mailing for black-market drug distributors, or other worthless (to anyone I can think of) "deals" - all of which cost additional amounts to be used in the RARE CASE that something might appear to be of interest.

By subtracting the total face value of the worthless "coupons," they come up with "only $8 per month," but you stiil pay them $40 up front, the advertisers pay them to send you MORE TRASH, they probably get a kickback on anything actually recycled, and everything in the "rebates" requires you to spend more(*) for any possible redemption.

* In all specific cases I've seen the "additional cost to redeem" exceeded the actual value of the "free deal" if you went on your own, without "discounts," to a reputable source and just paid cash for an equivalent delivered product/service.

My own little village participates in the single-stream recycling deal at the transfer stations; but you pay a flat fee for trash service that appears on the same bill as water and sewer service. You can get a "recyclables" cart if you want, and recycling might eventually affect what everybody pays for the trash service; but you don't have to deal with the worthless coupons.

We're one of the three (that I've seen) people among the nearest two dozen or so who have a recyclables cart, and we will continue to use it "just on principle" and because it allows us a little more "cart capacity" when unusual loads appear. The recycling program here is only a few months old, so maybe others will pick up on the idea when the see more carts out.

One glaring deficiency in the local program is that no recycler in the area accepts "shredded paper" as recyclable. There is one mill that advertises acceptance; but it's almost 40 miles from home and I'd have to take it myself - and they don't say it's free. The big local University has an on-campus shredded paper collection system with that mill, and it would be a little closer to take it for merging with theirs; but as yet I haven't found the "person to ask" to find out whether they'd be willing to have my participation.

For most, shredded paper isn't much of a problem; but I'm converting old records to digital so I've had one to three "moderately compressed" 40 gallon bags of it per month for the last several months, and it's all pretty clean and obviously something that should be recycled. Nobody here wants it, though.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 10 - 07:19 PM

Ours takes everything except glass(!), styrofoam, cling wrap, and things contaminated with medical or food waste. They do not, however, want the paper from home shredders in plastic bags, so I put it in paper bags. We recycle plastic shopping bags and such at the local stores.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 22 May 10 - 07:25 PM

Linked to carbon foot print should be carbon trading.

I am more cynical about this. If major companies can get away with murder on real share trading and fiddling the books think how much they can get away with on carbon trading where nothing actually exists.

Had to buy a phone charger a couple of weeks ago and I was offered a carbon neutral one. I did ask how this worked...apparently I could make an extra payment to some organisation and it will offset what I bought...no one in the shop could tell me where the cash was going.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 May 10 - 08:01 PM

Why should I worry about posterity? What has posterity ever done for me?

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 10 - 08:21 PM

The single MOST important thing we can do for posterity is provide them with ancestors!

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 May 10 - 03:48 AM

Are you responsible for the greenhouse effect Dick?

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 23 May 10 - 04:50 AM

With a name like Greenhaus, it doesn't sit right that you would be un-green. Therefore the Posterity jibe must be just that. A jibe.

I live in a flat in England. We have 3 bins for glass (clear, brown and green) 1 bin metal and 1 bin for paper for 21 flats. Collection is every other week. Occasionally the bins get overfull, which leads me to believe that not everyone recycles (they are small bins). There is no cardboard or plastic recycling for flats in our town, though the flat residents seem to think it is ok to dump cardboard and plastic carrier bags full of plastic bottles in front of the bins among other things like carpet, furniture and appliances. We have to contact the flat management every month to get these things hauled away. The damned annoying thing is the recycling centre is only a mile and half away. And there are charities which will collect your furniture and appliances for free. And judging by the overloaded car park, I'd say nearly every resident has access to a car.

I've tried putting up the borough council recycle scheme bulletin in entries and on landings but they were taken down and letters went out to residents from the flat management that we are not to post notices.

So I have given up trying to encourage others to follow best practice. I can only do what I can do.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 May 10 - 10:25 AM

I bought some sporting goods the other day. One came in a recyclable cardboard box wrapped in a recyclable plastic bag. The others came in recyclable plastics with paper labels, all of which are recyclable. These packages were no bigger than necessary to hold the product.

On the other hand, I also purchased an XD card for my camera -- about the size of a postage stamp. It was in a 4 x 6 inch (I measured) plastic package, and packaged inside THAT in another plastic package. I know that this is done to deter shoplifting, but wouldn't it be "greener" to lock them in a cabinet and put "fakes" on display, as is done in some stores?

But as I said earlier, I can only be responsible for myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Rog Peek
Date: 23 May 10 - 11:43 AM

When they prohibit the import and export by aircraft of fruit and vegatables, and prevent the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal heating their grass in the middle of winter, I might start to take them seiously when they tell me I should be sitting in the dark and walking to work.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 May 10 - 12:14 PM

Gnu stated..."it'll (Gulf oil spill) foul the Eastern Seaboard at least as far as Nova Scotia"...

The Gulf stream flows north and east and is very far from Nova Scotia. The currents off Nova Scotia (down to Boston) are influenced by the South and easterly flowing Labrador Current (that's why the waters colder along the coast). There is little possibility that the Canadian Maritimes would be impacted, unless a Gulf stream eddy broke off...which does occasionally happen. The only potential Canadian east coast possibility that I see is the Grand Banks, far off the Newfoundland coast, which do have a influence from the Gulf Stream.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Ed T
Date: 23 May 10 - 12:18 PM

Unfortunately, many folks take actions, or buy commercially sold , so called, green products (or take actions) in good will that have little impact on their global carbon footprint....and do not make other changes that could have a greater impact.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 May 10 - 12:23 PM

Just to clarify--my comment was a quote(Jimmy Durante, I think)intended to point out the stupidity of this thread title. I'm an enthusiastic supporter of policies aimed at reducing carbon-based fuel consumption (the solar collectors on my roof help support this claim) and I"ve been involved with the subject since the late 70's, when I became Consumer Reports' resident expert on conservation.
    I'm amused to think that, after all these years, someone is taking what I said seriously.Even if it was a joke.

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: pdq
Date: 23 May 10 - 12:34 PM

The quote is more likely from Groucho Marx than from Jimmy Durante, but, as Yogi Berra said: "I really didn't say everything I said".

Subject: RE: BS: Your Carbon Footprint---Who Cares?
From: Lox
Date: 23 May 10 - 01:12 PM

The BP spill makes me feel powerless, ineffectual, disenfranchised and frustrated.

I can't begin to express my incredulity at the apparent disregard for just about everything that big oil companies shoow.

I would however like to draw a parallel with the credit crunch.

Big industry makes a big mess, and the overwheming majority of ordinary people like you and me are punished and expected to bear the burden of sacrifice to repair the damage.

It is so unfair.