BS: advice needed: daughter moving-is this a scam?

Subject: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:46 PM

Hi

Daughter is moving to DC area to share apartment with uni friend. They need to be near Metro because they don't have car. Looking at Arlington.

Daughter found a fully furnished 2 bed condo being offered for $1100 a month. Has been in email correspondence with owner a 43 year old, female construction engineer living and working in the UK. She claims wants to find a good reliable tenant and that is why she is offering it a such a low rent. She has the keys with her in UK and she says she has no one in the US to show the place prior to making contract to rent.

Says she is willing to meet with me personally in the UK before contract and money passes to prove it is not a scam. How is my meeting with this woman going to prove that it is not a scam?

I would prefer if they worked it out through a proper letting agent (realtor) in the DC area. That way there is a 3rd party that can confirm the property is truly hers to let out.   

any advice... please?

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 02:58 PM

If it is a condo, the management has to have a key in case of an emergency. It's in the rules for sure. Contact the condo manager.

Mary

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:04 PM

I don't know, but I think you are wise to be suspicious VT.

If you want to PM details to me, I don't mind trying to find out if it is a scam or not. Being in the UK may help to get this resolved.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:04 PM

This smells terribly fishy to me. It COULD be on the up-and-up, but I'd be very, very careful here. First thing is to check with the condo manager. Lady in the UK might not even be known to him.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:15 PM

And as they say, if it seems too good to be true, it's probably a scam.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:24 PM

thanks Sins... and yes Rap...very dodgy, indeed.

I have told Hil to ask the owner to contact management at the condo and also told Hilary to ask the management if this woman is sole owner and is legally permitted to let the condo.

Arthur -itis. I live in UK. Owner of condo in Arlington Virginia, is American living and working in UK. I have read the email to Hilary and seems very genuine. She says she just wants to get a good reliable tenant in to help defray the cost of living in the UK. I don't know how much construction engineers make in the UK but I am also a bit worried about the fact that her job in the UK could evaporate in this economic climate. She might move back home and Hilary would be forced to move.

The woman did say she is willing to offer anywhere from 1 month to 6 years rental contract. This, I also found very dodgy.

Now waiting for Hil to finish work for the day and read my messages to her. We shall see how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:37 PM

Oh sorry VT I thought you were in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: mg
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 03:51 PM

The six years sounds very suspicious. I have never heard of a lease going that long.

I wouldn't worry about her losing her job if she is genuine. That is something that can be dealt with by your daughter getting a new place to live.

Tax records as to who owns what property are often available online. Or someone who lives in DC area could check for you.

She should be willing to meet you at her place of work and offer to have you meet her boss or coworkers so you can be convinced of her identity, once you have determined that the person with her name is the actual owner of the property. mg

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:15 PM

If everything DOES check out okay be certain sure to get it all in writing! A standard lease agreement...something. It will protect both your daughter and the lessor.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 04:42 PM

that I do know. too many times being burned both as lessee and lessor.

I have found the apt on craigslist.com It is comparable to a couple others in price/location. But most of same spec are twice price what this woman is asking.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 05:56 PM

wow! just found the condo... well posh. No way can she be renting it for so little.

woman has sent Hil the following

Thank you for your reply.

Before going further with anything I must tell you that for payments I will use the eBay Company, they will secure the transaction of payments. I will open a CASE ID# at eBay Company for this transaction and I will give them your full name, shipping info, phone# and indicate you as my tenant. After that, they will contact you with the payment details, and they will ask you to send them a refundable deposit, $2200 in 24 hours(the money will be for the first month of rent + the security deposit). After they receive your deposit, they will notify me immediately to start the shipping of the keys and the contract. You will receive a tracking number in max 12 hours after they receive your deposit. The keys will reach to you in 3-4 days. After you'll receive the keys and the contract, the 14 days of inspection period will start( you'll have 14 days to see the condo, read the contract,
decide if you keep the condo or not.After the inspection you will contact them and tell your decision: TAKE THE CONDO or NOT TAKE THE CONDO !In case you'll take it you'll have to send them a copy of the contract signed by you and they will release the money to me, if not you'll have to send them the contract unsigned and they will refund your money(2200$), the contract and the keys will be shipped back at my expenses! I will pay the shipping and you'll have to pay the money transfer fee for the
refundable deposit.
Once again:
1. If you have the money 2200$ and if you want to rent it send me your full name, your shipping address and your phone#
2. I will open a CASE ID# at eBay Company for this transaction , and I will give them your info, and indicate you as my tenant.
3. After that, they will contact you with the payment details(you'll have to send them 2200$ via money transfer in the next 24 hours-you'll need cash)
4. After they receive your deposit, they will notify me immediately to start the shipping, and you will receive a tracking number in max 12 hours after they receive your deposit.
5.From the moment you receive the keys the 14 days inspection period will start.I will make the transaction only in this way so if you have the money and if you want to rent my condo send me your full name, your shipping address, your phone# and I'll start the procedure.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: jeffp
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:00 PM

Smells very fishy.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:12 PM

yeah but I found this

http://www.rent.com/company/legal/terms/

this is the policy of the ebay company. legitimate company with decent reviews. but still no way to get proof that this woman can legally rent the apartment.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:15 PM

$1100 is dirt cheap for a condo in Arlington. We were owners of a rental house a few years ago in Silver Spring MD, and that's all we got for an entire house with basement. Such deals do happen, I guess, but she 'could' get 1800 or more if the place is really nice.

(Her her send ME the keys, and I will personally show and inspect the place *grin*) I have lived in Silver Spring for 26 years.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:22 PM

Thanks Bill Don;t think she would send keys to any stranger.

I still want verification that she can legally rent it. Don't know how we can get around that problem.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:29 PM

(I didn't assume she'd even consider such a thing)

Ask if she has the deed in the UK, and can show it so you can double-check ownership with VA authorities. And ask who has been caring for/ living there recently!)

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: open mike
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:50 PM

1100 is cheap??
!!

is this an apt. or a house/?

how many bedrooms...

you should be able to look up
property owner details on the
county records site..

what county is it in?

here for land anyway,
you can find info if
you have the assessor
parcel number...

http://www.arlingtonva.us/

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Tangledwood
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 06:59 PM

Apart from the legitimacy of the deal, without a third party in the DC being involved, and regular inspections being made, there could be problems with any dispute resolution. I'm thinking along the lines of damage which hasn't been noticed at the time of taking occupancy - was it pre-existing or was your daughter responsible? Disagreements with other tenants are another instance where having an agent is helpful.
If the apartment owner is legitimate but is attempting to avoid agent fees I don't think that it is very wise on her part. I write from the point of view of having been a landlord in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:07 PM

Almost any absentee landlord would appoint/hire a local representative to oversee a property.

(and yes...in this area, 1100 IS cheap for a decent place near Metro!)

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:13 PM

That email rings all the bad bells in me. If it were teh UK the first port of call would be the Land registry - now an open record inspectable online for a very small fee, but not all leases and tenancies are registrable so even if the lessor owns it does not prove there is no prior right to occupy.

Secondly, there may be restrictions on underletting resulting from the ownership/head leasehold of the property. In the UK those should be discoverable from the Land Registry - but you are not dealing withthe UK.

Thirdly, will the "owner" not have a mortgage? In the UK these usually prohibit leasing (or underletting) without the consent of the mortgagee, so a breach could result in the owner suffering possession proceedings from the mortgagee.

Fourthly, the very use of "ebay" as a payment mechanism smells fishy. Does ebay offer payment facilities? I know its associated company Paypal does, but that is not the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Tangledwood
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:45 PM

Mention mortgage jogged the memory - property insurance might be another issue that needs to be checked too.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 07:45 PM

Can you get the name of the condo complex? If so, the manager should be able to tell you (1) if that person is the unit owner and (2) what rentals for similar units usually are. He may even recognize this as a repetitive scam. If you don't want to bust for a transatlantic call, I expect someone here can make the call for you.

There are, BTW, a large number of condo rentals on ebay. However, most people don't refer to "the ebay Company", just to "ebay". That makes me think that it may be our old friend the Nigerian, in a different guise.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:34 PM

Is there a company name? That would be a good thing to have to make
sure that it's legit.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:39 PM

If it's a condo, there almost certainly is a "neighborhood association" with lots of rules and restrictions. A tenant normally would be responsible for complying with all those rules in addition to anything in a lease/rental contract.

Having done so once, inadvertently, I would refuse to reside in anyplace where there is an "association" and "restrictive covenants," but that might not be a viable option in the area in question.

I would urge that the existence of any "covenants" that might be impled but not necessarily spelled out in a contract should be carefully examined, and that anyone considering a sublet in a "planned community" (i.e. condo) consider that the "association" can change the rules - at residents/tenants expense - on the whim of the minority willing to show up at the (excruciatingly boring) meetings for the thrill of imposing their prejudices on all those living near them.

It should not be necessary to post a deposit without first seeing the complete contract. The "exotic" arrangements to (supposedly) assure that your money will be refunded if you decline to sign once you see the complete terms is meant to be reassuring, but does have similarities to Nigerian-style letters I've seen.

The person offering the place for rent isn't risking anything by sending a copy of the contract, so the person considering renting shouldn't have to "post a bond" in order to see what is being offered.

Before renting in a "condo" situation, I would personally demand to see a full and complete copy of the "association rules" - with amendments - before even looking at the lease/rental contract.

John

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: LadyJean
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:30 AM

Condos have boards, mean, evil, interfering boards, who make a terrible fuss if you sublet without kissing their feet repeatedly, and running prospective tennants past them. They also have agents, who are meaner and eviler than the board, as a rule. The agent is probably listed online, with the management company. It won't be hard to track him down and ask him what's going on.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:02 AM

I googled the address and found out it is the Phoenix at Clarendon. Got the contact details from their website and Hil called the to ascertain whether this woman is indeed an owner and if she can legally rent her apartment.

Hil emailed me back to say "It is a scam." She didn't say anything else. Guess she is quite down about it. She and her potential roomie need to find something with 2 beds on the Metro that accepts cats at no more than 1150 per month if it includes utilities. Less if it doesn't.

I am trying to convince her to move further out, use bus system to get to Metro until she can save for car. Told her I will go into car investment up to 1500 by this time next year if her Dad will match my funds. She will have none of it. Very independent.

Told Hil to report that woman to Craigslist (where she found the advert) and Rent.com the company she was claiming to do the transaction through.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:06 AM

Ditch cats, get mechanic boyfriend...

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 04:14 AM

Don't you buy properties in the US? Rent is such waste of money - no return at all.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 06:09 AM

Sorry that it was a scam, but very glad you were alert enough to figure it out before Hils and roomie sent a check.

Because of FSGW, there are a number of people on Mudcat who live in the DC metro area, and word of mouth often finds the best rental situations. Many of those situations get passed on from friend to friend and never make it into advertisement. A thread on Mudcat asking DC area folks to pm you if they have any leads on below market priced rentals in the area might possibly turn up something.

Subject: RE: BS: advice needed quick daughter moving
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 07:00 AM

She has a friend who buys and restores old cars. But he lives in August GA, where she is moving away from. He let her drive his DeLorean.   No money for a car and 1st month rent and security deposit which is typically a month's rent. The roomie is already up there either still at George Mason or living with parents. May already have job. Hil will have to start job search as soon as she arrives but hopes to have 2 month's rent already in place. She is junking her current car (2000 Prism) as it will not pass inspection in Virginia and she can't afford to get it repaired. Friend says it won't sell and not worth repairing. She is also selling some of her furniture and other odds and ends. As well saving as much as she can from current job to put in the pot for the move. She will need to hire a UHaul so there is a few hundred gone with fuel.

It is very difficult for Hilary in Augusta. She is unhappy, unfulfilled in work and social life. She wants and needs to be able to be involved in theatre - if only on an amateur basis and there is little going re AmDram in Augusta. What there is is quite cliquish. DC area will offer much more opportunity to play the way she wants and needs to. The kid (she is 26 years old next week) is a very hard worker and has been uber independent since she was about 10. Rather do things and pay for things for her self. The older she gets the more so.

Bonzo.... helpful, as ever.

Janie... I like your advice. Think I will start a thread (click). Now for a good thread title to get attention.