BS: World Cup hooligans

Subject: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST,Rod Cornwall
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:01 PM

Did anyone watch Panaroma "World Cup hooligans" ?

Panorama carried out an undercover investigation into previously unreported English hooligan violence at World Cup 2006

The film follows England fans from Frankfurt to Gelsenkirchen and infiltrates groups of troublemakers.

A record 170,000 England fans travelled to Germany for the cup and the majority were peaceful causing no problems.

The worst rioting happened the day before the England vs Ecuador game.Thet attacked passers by and wrecked an Irish bar.

Police believe rioters consumed or threw about 17 litres of beer each in Stuttgart and 400 England 'fans' were taken into preventative custody.

The motto of World Cup 2006 was 'a time to make friends' but undercover cameras revealed England 'fans' 'mobbing up' and singing songs about World War Two which visibly shock German police officer

For the first time in the history of the cup, British police officers were allowed to patrol the streets and airports of a the host country.

England was the most represented country at the tournament apart from Germany.

3,500 known hooligans had been placed on a banned list and officers had powers to check for them. But the tournament attracted record numbers of people from England.

Chief Superintendent Dave Lewis told Panorama that he believed operations to control organised violence were good. But he fears future problems with a new growing group of anti-social, drunk and volatile people associating with football.

The film revealed a future generation of 'youth firms' of hooligans.

One man who is a known international fixer of fights between different gangs expresses his disappointment that a bus was stopped from bringing what he calls a 'top firm' into a fight.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Peace
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:12 PM

There were hats around when I was younger. They read, "Instant asshole. Just add booze."

How many will England be wanting?

PS We have much the same sort of difficulty with hockey playoffs in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:20 PM

They win they riot. They lose, they riot. Morons don't need an excuse to act like morons.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST,Rapaire
Date: 17 Aug 06 - 09:45 PM

Do unto others...see what would happen if the police actually treated them as they treat others...get in what we used to call in the MPs "a little stick time" and they'd scream bloody murder, even if the cops acted very much in self-defense.

I have little or no patience with such people. They're disrupting a sport and violating the peace of at least one country. It might sound harsh, but pepper spray and nightsticks....

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Peace
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 01:01 AM

"pepper spray and nightsticks"

You have the makings of a country and western song there, Rapaire.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:08 AM

This is an on-going problem, although many English people on this Site seem to be in denial.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 04:41 AM

For once I am in agreement with an un-named Guest. I know the genuine football fans will be on my back for this but I work 1/2 a mile from Old Trafford and live about 3 miles away. I regularly see Salford Quays packed with 'fans' chanting and gesticulating; blocking up the whole pavement so old ladies and mums with prams have to walk in the road; urinating in the middle of the main road; being generaly as intimidating as huge groups of young men can be. And this is all with the police watching!

Even the adverts for some inane product during the recent world cup showed a man walking through the park, shouting, getting 'in the face' people and behaving in a very anti-social manner.

I even to a football match, well if you can call Bolton vs Blackburn that, last year. I found it disgusting that the crowd were allowed, or even encouraged, to shout obscenities at the tops of their voices at both the opposing players and the opposing fans. In any other circumstance these people would be locked up - but there they were, hundreds of them, getting away with it.

I have been to both Cricket and Rugby Legue matches recently as well - It just didn't happen there.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Aug 06 - 11:53 PM

Indeed it does not usually happen. Those sports usually attract smaller crowds. The thugs tend to go for the biggest crowds which are available. In most of Europe, those are football crowds. In my liberal, understanding way, my gut feeling is that these criminals should be chopped up into very small pieces. I make no defence of the indefensible. What I am tired of, is the use of the term "English football fans" as a perjorative. English football fans despise this rabble as much as you or I.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 01:29 PM

I saw this programme, and was apalled, but it was following a group of about 50 thugs.
There were thousands of England fans out there.
We also saw similar thugish contingents from other countries.

I put this quote in the previous thread.


The German Police Chief said,
``It's been an extraordinarily positive contribution made to the tournament as a whole by English supporters,'' he said.

``The English fans said before the World Cup that they are the champions in partying,'' said Gerd Graus, spokesman of the organizing committee. ``They have proved that here.''

FIFA communications director Markus Siegler said: ``We can only commend the German authorities for the fantastic job they've been doing. In general, England fans are among the best in the world.''

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 03:54 PM

Rod Cornwall,
Your post ended with the reference to the fight organiser.
He was German.
And the "top firm" prevented from attending were Polish.

What is your interest Rod?
This programme was on weeks ago.
Why did you decide to make it the subject of your first ever Mudcat post?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Slag
Date: 19 Aug 06 - 05:13 PM

World Cup??? Cup of what? Sounds uncivilized. 'course when one get's in his cups, the veneer of civilization is the first thing the alcohol disolves. Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 04:16 AM

Well Rod, you appear to be the latest in a line of one off Guests who start threads intended to show England in a bad light.
Why do you feel the need you sad, obsessed creep?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 04:33 AM

Let me tell you that we distinguish well between the hooligans and the majority of decent fans from whatever country over here.
It was really fun to meet so many strangers visiting our country. There were expected hooligans not only from England, and therefore not only "Bobbies" reenforced our police, but contingents from other European countries, and they were a great help for our police forces. They knew the language of the possible offenders and their average behaviour, and were often able to stop riots before a start.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 07:50 AM

A good example was the proposed punch up before the Germany Poland game. Particularly nasty misfits from both countries had planned violence. The police got wind of it, jugged the lot of the bastards within minutes, and the thousands of football fans got on with the party. The people who I knew, who were in Gelsenkirchen, saw nothing but thousands of celebrating fans.
The World Cup did Germany and its guests a huge amount of good. It seriously pisses me off to hear people using it as an occasion to talk down either my country or football fans in general. I don't need this crap. I saw it. I was here.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 08:09 AM

Still doesn't explain why there are still hoardes of drunken louts hanging around various football stadia (is that right?) every Saturday. Doesn't explain why it is perfectly acceptible for seemingly respectable men and women to shout at the top of their voices that the other team or their fans are a set of c***s. Doesn't explain why frightened mothers have to walk in the road with their children to avoid a crowd of chanting apes in their teams colours. Doesn't explain why the mens room in some pubs is swimming in urine on match days because the users could not be bothered waiting for a urinal to become free. And sorry, alanabit, this isn't crap. I have seen multiple occurences of all these incidents. If the majority of football fans are as appaled by them as I am why is no-one doing anything about it?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 09:02 AM

They do it because they can get away with it. Arrest them, fine them heavily (and I do mean heavily!), make them pay for any damages and injuries, and publish their pictures and names in the paper and detail WHY they were arrested. If appropriate, jail them.

For a second offense, double the fine and jail them.

In the US people riot after certain sports victories. And I think the same thing should be done here. I see no excuse for trashing shops, burning cars, peeing anywhere you like, fighting, and other anti-social behaviors. Cops tear-gas demonstrators and I see no reason why thugs should be treated differently.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 09:29 AM

I think electronic tagging would be good - Anyone caught is under a house curfew which starts one hour before ANY football match and ends one hour after. Better still if the tags delivered electric shocks to anyone outside their boundries at the relevent times:-)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 10:08 AM

That last one's a good idea Dave. Attach the tags to their wedding-tackle, that'd shock the bastards alright!
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 10:47 AM

Turn their wedding tackle to welding tackle?

I'll get my coat...

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:21 PM

No ideas from the football fans? I am not trying to wind anyone up here. I am really interested as to why this awful situation is not being controlled.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:27 PM

What's Keithies problem here ? The guy only reflected on a television programme.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:30 PM

Who's Keithies?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 05:32 PM

Problem with the electronic tags on the wedding tackle is that they might get to like it.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Peace
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 06:15 PM

Shocking . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: alanabit
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 11:03 PM

Dave - those thugs annoy me as much as they annoy you. But please observe the title of this thread... Even people who are not football fans here are speaking well of the World Cup 2006.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 03:35 PM

True, alanabit, I have digressed into football hooliganism in general. I didn't really want to start another thread.

OK - To keep it the confines of the title I am happy to accept what you say. How come then, if the yobs can be curtailed for the world cup, how come their activities cannot be stopped at home?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 06 - 09:10 PM

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 22 Aug 06 - 04:16 AM

Well Rod, you appear to be the latest in a line of one off Guests who start threads intended to show England in a bad light.
Why do you feel the need you sad, obsessed creep?

Wow ! One hell of a welcome. And coming from this guy above all people.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 09:44 AM

Well, maybe he mistook 'Guest Rod' for YOU, 'Guest 9.10', eh?

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 06 - 01:53 PM

You know Keith, sometimes I wish us English were as nice as you seem to think we are.

Then after a bit, I think sod it - lets be as bad as the rest of them - in fact, let's be even worse - let's be black and tans and football hooligans, psycho killers and dirty dogs generally. after all, we have to put up with us - let them suffer as well.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST,Ryan from hereford
Date: 26 Aug 06 - 05:38 PM

England fans just get targeted by press.It aint as bad as it was so whats the problem.It also makes me sick when people who dont have a clue slate there own countries fans.prowd to be english, i am so if some guy started throwing punches at me i would not just stand there.id fight.

Subject: RE: BS: World Cup hooligans
From: GUEST,mw
Date: 04 Sep 06 - 05:20 AM

You are fucking hooligans?no you're not,you are fucking idiots...