BS: Hoax uncovered

Subject: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 05:57 AM

Hi all,

A while ago there was a thread which I can't find, that mentioned dubious archeological evidence and claims regarding semimythical historical events. I gave a link to www.archeologica.org that provides daily links to items of interest.

One that caught my eye was the Kensington stone covered in runes, it caught my attention because I had recently read an article about the discovery of another rune stone that supporters of the original stone insisted validated their their claim of authenticity.

Well two academics have come forward to claim they carved it back in 1985 along with a couple of friends for fun, but once they saw serious money was to be put forward to test their stone they decided to come clean. Things aren't allways what they might appear to be, wishful thinking to often helps.

I imagine Spaw can send the supporters his recipe for crow. :-)

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 06:07 AM

Do you mean this thread?:
Early visitors to North America

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 07:15 AM

Cheers Wolfgang, thats the one. The story along with the recent exposure of seeding of sites by a noted Japanese archeologist, show just how easily we can be hoodwinked and not a crop circle in sight or little green man in sight.

:)

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:30 AM

The clicky above only gives me a blank white page. Using the forum search with the search criterion "Early visitors to North America" gives me a "Not Found" error. Wha' hoppenin'???

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 10:47 AM

DaveO, I think you just got it on a bad server. I edited the html link, so that it can choose which server to use. I was able to access it both before and after I did that. You shouldn't have any problems with it, now.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 11:18 AM

Katlaughing:

It is now 11:12 EST, and I got the same result.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: rangeroger
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 12:15 PM

Dave,the link works for me at this time.

rr

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: paddymac
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 12:52 PM

Ditto rr's post.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:14 PM

I believe the term "little green men" was concocted by early debunkers of UFO sightings, rather than by supporters of same. Can anyone verify that? It reminds me of people who routinely refer to chiropractors as "quacks", though they usually know very little about chiropractic.

I don't think there's ever been a UFO sighting on record where the witnesses to the event described seeing "little green men", but it sounds wonderful as a term of ridicule, so it has remained popular in the rhetoric of skeptics for at least 50 years now.

In a similar fashion, the term "swamp gas" has remained popular among UFO proponents who wish to ridicule skeptics and governmental authorities.

The laziest way to oppose any viewpoint on anything is to focus mainly on the least intelligent known examples of that viewpoint. Thus we reveal our innate prejudices and stimulate endless attack and counterattack along the well-worn verbal trails that so many have trod before us.

I am heartily sick of hearing about "little green men".

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:24 PM

Some ideas about the origin of the term little green men (as to be expected it comes from the SF literature).

Now, to call chiropranksters 'quacks' is really not nice. (Am I still in the STOP WHO'S thread?)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:32 PM

urban mythical?

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 01:46 PM

I think you have just insulted both ducks and chiropractors, Wolfgang! Prepare for a barrage of enraged posts from various GUESTS. The duck lobby is quite vocal these days. :-)

I checked out the "green men" stuff. Sounds like the old needle in the haystack search with all those possibilities.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: rangeroger
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 05:21 PM

LH, before looking at the link Wolfgang posted, I was going to suggest the pulp novels of the 30s and 40s. Their covers were prime examples of lurid color illustration and inluded green aliens. This is also where BEMs ( Bug-eyed-Monsters) came from.

It was neat that Damon Knight got into the dicussion on that list.

rr

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 05:35 PM

Yeah. Tars Tarkas and the Tharks (of the John Carter of Mars books) were green, but they sure weren't little! Little green men seem to have been a staple of space fiction going way back.

I find it extremely ironical that out of the thousands of personal anecdotes of "close encounters" with aliens in the last few decades not one that I know of has featured little green men. Little men, sometimes, yes, but definitely not green. Normal sized humanoids, skinny humanoids, hairless humanoids, and humanoids that look exactly like us, but NOT green men! This is one of the things that strongly suggest to me that there's something to the whole UFO phenomenon beyond mere hallucinations and wishful thinking by credulous people.

After all, people who have hallucinations and/or wishful thinking tend to see exactly what they expect to see.

It's those who definitely did not see what they expected to see whose accounts most interest me. Specially when those witnesses are trained military and civilian pilots and technical staff, which has been true in many cases.

At the end of the day, however, everyone goes on believing whatever they believed when they got up in the morning, barring a direct encounter of their own...or an official public announcement from the government, and nothing I say here is gonna change that and I know it.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 06:35 PM

Why "quacks"? Poor ducks.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Nov 01 - 06:55 PM

The expression "quacks" derives from "quacksalver" or quicksilver (mercury) which was being prescribed for various ailments by some very unscrupulous "healers" way back when. Mercury is highly poisonous. As the nefarious activities of these charlatans were gradually brought to light, they became referred to as "quacks" because of the quicksilver they were peddling to their unsuspecting victims.

NO connection with ducks whatsoever, in fact.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:56 AM

I thought mercury compounds were formerly used to treat syphilis (See songs like White Copper Alley, for example).

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Troll
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:17 AM

pavane, you are quite correct.
Little Hawk, you left out the Grays and the Reptoids. The Space-Squids will come for you and subject you to fiendish tortures; endless tapes of Barry Manilow and The Carpenters with the occasional disco number thrown in at random times. You may even be put in...gasp...The Comfy Chair!
That'll teach you to make lists!

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:23 AM

And of course, to carry your vendetta into a new thread, LH, just shows how mean and petty you really are.

Oh, enlightened one.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 08:56 AM

Holy thread-drift Batman!

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 09:14 AM

Ye Gods,

I didn't expect barbs to fly when I put up the item at the top of the list, my intention was to update folks on an item that intrigued me. It really would be something if Vikings had trailed across North America but for now we have one fake and a stone of unknown origins.

LH. The little green men thing was just a throw away comment, not meant to malign the serious student of these things. However as I put in another chat group:

"Another line of thought on unkowns, in the ancient world or medieval period unkown events were blamed on spirits and the devil, if some one was considered to be part of the cause and in league with said spirits they got burnt, problem solved. Nowadays we are much more sophisicated and we don't generally burn people anymore. When we see a problem or event that defies our current level of knowledge however too many people go strait for the conspiricy theory or the little green men cop out, its part of the same reaction as ancient times, we invent a boogie man to take the the blame"

Besides whatever amount of ridicule is aimed at the subject it's not going to go away, it has its own fincial momentum, conferances, magazines, books, endless documentaries, even if the level of sightings have dropped since the cold war finished.

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Letty
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 09:44 AM

Green men are also a common motif in folklore. Connected to magic, forest, pagan religion. Maybe the term little green men refers to this too, green men being something the superstitious believe in.
Letty

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 01 - 02:22 PM

"Nowadays we are much more sophisticated and we don't generally burn people anymore." More sophisticated, but one way and another the number of people we've burnt in the last century is probably far higher than in any previous century.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 01:27 AM

Not in my local market place they have't

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 02:11 AM

Having posted the above, I have just read this (not blickyed)

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/10/ntramp10.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/11/10/ixhomef.html

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 02:22 AM

Link from above post

M

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 10 Nov 01 - 11:53 PM

I LOVE that the second runestone has been revealed to be a fake. Muaha. KRS believers are the third most annoying people in Minnesota (next to Rochesterites and Iron Rangers), and I never get tired of seeing them disappointed. >:)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,Stennes
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 05:28 AM

Has anybody got a piece of a flying saucer for sale?

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: GUEST,John Gray/Australia
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 06:55 AM

Stennes, as a matter of fact I have. And would you believe it - those bloody Martians are monarchists.
On the bottom of the piece I have it says Royal Doulton !

JG /FME.

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 12:52 PM

Very pleased to hear that Quacks are not taking my name in vain (or should that be vein?).
Quack!!!
Geoff the Duck!

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 04:38 PM

Unfortunately there are charletans in all fields of endeavour. I had read years ago that the Kensington stone was a hoax and was unaware that a second one was also foisted on the public. I personally believe there is intelligent life out there. If so, why would they want to visit other than to observe/ our record of treatment to each other does leave a bit to be desired. (As does my spelling without spell check) Are they green? Don't know. Don't care. I suspect if they are and they visit we'll have to curb some of out less tolerant bretheran. I think we can start by apologizing to all those ducks out there who's character has been besmirched by comparison with incompitent doctors. I'm sorry all you ducks! Have a great weekend all, Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Hoax uncovered
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 01 - 05:47 PM

Geoff - Yeah, I thought that would be a relief to you. Quack! Seen "Howard the Duck" lately? It's a greatly underrated film.

Troll - NO, not the space squids!!! I've heard about those Barry Manilow sessions. I meant the grays to come under the heading of "hairless humanoids", actually...but you got me on the "Reptoids". Didn't Captain Kirk have a set-to with one of them once? As I recall, his T-shirt got badly ripped in that episode...

- LH