Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 02:17 PM

Just yesterday saw a 14TB Seagate HD in Costco. Holy Hannah.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 23 - 11:28 PM

The Amazon Prime sale this week has given a half-off price on a 16T external backup drive, so I'll set it up to do a full backup (setting aside the smaller-capacity drive I have used) and then I'll see about updating to Windows 11. I didn't want to try it until I had a new full backup.

It's a good way to kill a weekend.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 07:59 AM

Lady Hillary and I are the cadre at our regional rummage sale computer department. A customer came in, tire kicking, and we discussed his needs. He had, a day or two previously, purchased a refurbished Windows 10 computer on eBay with a 500 gig hard drive for $350. He realized, after our discussion, that a: it was overpriced and b: since he stores almost everything in the cloud, he really does not need that large a hard drive. He ended up purchasing two 320 gig laptops @ $120 each and deciding to send back the other.
Unless you really need a lot of storage, a large hd is an affectation.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 04:35 AM

No hurry:
Not even the ghost of obsolescence can coerce users onto Windows 11

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 12:55 PM

I want a hard drive to store the entire OS and data so the thing can be restored with everything installed. You can't do that kind of backup on the cloud (at least not that I've found - if one exists, please tell me).

I store my photos on the cloud (in space I rent annually at Microsoft).

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 09:29 AM

Techie Warning:

> Modern large drives are supposed to have gone to SMR (shingle
> magnetic recording)

Or HAMR (heat-assisted), or possibly both in the same drive.

> Unless you really need a lot of storage, a large hd is an affectation.

*Agree*. The problem here is that, once people have a huge drive, they neglect (and then forget) to throw away date-expired data, and then back up everything "just in case". I know I do.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Dec 23 - 05:58 PM

Aha! A whiff of news about Windows 12 (you know they were going to do it!)

Windows 12 FAQ: Yes, it's coming in 2024 (and more surprising predictions)
Microsoft isn't talking, but I've collected rumors, speculation, and wild-ass guesses about the next version of Windows in this FAQ to help you get ready.
From ZDNet

Well, Windows as a Service was fun while it lasted. Microsoft buried that idea once and for all with the release of Windows 11 in 2021. And judging by the latest crop of rumors, it appears we're now back on a schedule that includes a new major version of Windows every three years. Next up: Windows 12, sometime in 2024.
Microsoft is being typically close-mouthed about its plans for the next version of Windows, of course. But the rumor mill has been working overtime in recent months, helped along by some (perhaps strategic) leaks from partners that suggest we will indeed get yet another "big bang" release in 2024, roughly three years after the launch of Windows 11.

What can you expect from Windows 12?
I've got some predictions based on more than 30 years of experience with the operating system everyone loves to hate.

Seriously, Windows 12?
OK, I guess that's technically a question, so the judges will allow it.

Windows 11 was a (more or less) complete surprise from Microsoft. With that as precedent, though, the idea of a new major release is considerably less surprising. A new version number offers marketing possibilities that Redmond can exploit along with its hardware partners (HP, Lenovo, and Dell, primarily). It also offers an excuse to rev up consumers and business customers. So, expect to see some TV ads pitching new features in familiar form factors in the new year.

Will Microsoft include AI features in Windows 12?
Oh, this one's easy. Of course Windows 12 will be chock-full of AI features because that's what Microsoft is doing with everything now. The Copilot feature is already available as a preview in Windows 11 and Windows 10, and there's no doubt it will continue to expand its capabilities over time.

Will Microsoft's customers find those features valuable or useful? Will they generate enough revenue to satisfy Microsoft shareholders? Those are still open questions.

One thing you can reasonably expect is that new PCs designed for Windows 12 will include hardware features, including custom neural processing units that are optimized for the AI features in Windows. Microsoft has already included this support in its Arm-powered Surface Pro, and the company has built its own Arm-based processors to make Azure better at handling AI-related tasks. I expect to see some of those silicon features trickle down to the Surface PC line in the Windows 12 era.

Will the hardware requirements change for Windows 12?
One of the most turbulent changes in Windows 11 was a new set of hardware requirements that essentially locked out older hardware. I'm betting that Microsoft won't make major changes to that hardware baseline with Windows 12. All of those PCs should be fully capable of running what will probably be a minor upgrade in the form of Windows 12.

Don't be surprised, though, to see some new hardware requirements for specific AI-based features (speech and image processing, for example), but any PC that meets the requirements for Windows 11 should perform acceptably on Windows 12.

Is Microsoft going to get more serious about Arm-based PCs?

Yes. I expect the next generation of Windows PCs to be a huge step up in performance, battery life, and manageability. Intel has every right to be nervous about what's coming, as I noted earlier in this article. Qualcomm couldn't deliver its SoCs in time for the fall 2023 cycle, but they will certainly be ready for Windows 12.

If the Nuvia acquisition delivers for Qualcomm, that device should have performance and battery life that are close to Apple's devices and could pass the "good enough" test, especially at lower price points. That launch might even be accompanied by a preview of Windows 12, with some Arm-specific enhancements.

Qualcomm's long-rumored Snapdragon Elite X chip was officially announced in October, and should be available by mid-2024, just in time for a Windows 12 debut. The company says its new chip can match the performance of Intel's fastest laptop CPU while using nearly 70% less power. AMD and Nvidia are also reportedly working on Arm-based designs that will be ready in 2025.

What changes can we expect in the Windows 12 user experience (UX)?
I don't expect to see any major UX changes in Windows 12. Everything that was introduced in Windows 11 feels like a baseline. It's reasonable to anticipate that we will see refinements to those Windows 11 UX features, specifically addressing some complaints of longtime Windows users, including the capability to move the taskbar to the top or side of the primary display.

Several veteran Windows watchers have speculated that Windows 12 will add a floating search bar and move some elements of the taskbar to the top of the screen, making the Windows experience more Mac-like. More than a year ago, Windows Central's Zac Bowden spotted those elements from a design prototype of Windows 12 in a Microsoft presentation at its Ignite conference. It's also possible that these changes will appear as user-configurable options alongside the more familiar Windows 11 UX.

Will Windows 12 run all my old Windows apps?
One of the core selling points of Windows through the years has been its relentless focus on backward compatibility with apps and services. I predict that won't change in 2024.

I do, however, expect to see Microsoft ratchet up its security over older apps, which represent a perennial security threat to anyone who uses a Windows PC. The company has been quietly running virtual PCs in its own cloud, under the Windows 365 moniker, for several years. On local hardware, it's invested a ton of resources in virtualizing core Windows functions so they're less vulnerable to traditional attacks.

You can expect both of these efforts to step up big time in Windows 12. On Arm-based PCs, in particular, don't be surprised to see features that run legacy Win32 apps in virtual sessions that are sandboxed to prevent them from tampering with the operating system. That will annoy malware developers, but it should be a net positive for anyone using a Windows PC.

What will be the official name of the next version of Windows?
I suppose it's possible that someone in Redmond could convince the powers that be to go back to doing dumb names instead of version numbers (Me, XP, Vista). But since Windows 7 in 2009, it's been all numbers, and that's where the smart money is placing its bets. If you're looking for a longshot bet, put a few bucks on Microsoft including the word Copilot in the product's official name.

When will Windows 12 be available to the public?
For the official public release, I've carved out a three-month window in my calendar, starting in late July and extending to late October. Those are the traditional H2 dates when Microsoft releases a new Windows version, and there's no reason to expect that to change this time around. Insider builds should appear roughly three months before the final release, maybe a bit longer.

Will Windows 12 expand support for running Android apps?
This has been one of the most tantalizing rumors to me. The Windows 11 Subsystem for Android is more of a proof of concept than a productivity booster, thanks to its most serious limitation: The only apps it can install are those in Amazon's meager app store.

The most obvious way to expand this capability is to open access to the Google Play Store for the Android on Windows subsystem. Given the eternally fraught nature of the relationship between Google and Microsoft, it's hard to imagine that the two companies can work out that deal. But ... never say never?

How much will Windows 12 cost?
Historically, most people buy Windows on a new PC and never pay Microsoft directly. I don't expect that fact to change in the Windows 12 era, nor do I expect Microsoft to raise its prices in this economy.

I don't usually do a long copy/paste of these articles, but sometimes they go away, so I thought I'd keep the whole thing here for reference.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Dec 23 - 02:56 PM

Running this up to the top again with a hint of the change in the title. Does anyone else tend to skip an OS with Windows and do every other one?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Dec 23 - 02:15 PM

Does anyone else tend to skip an OS with Windows and do every other one?

It's not a strategy that I've ever used, although I've missed a couple along the way. It might be a good idea, but that depends where you started, I think.

If you'd decided to install Windows ME, ignored XP, went straight to Vista, followed by Windows 8, then possibly not...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Dec 23 - 02:30 PM

You're right about that! I skipped ME (used Win2000/NT), never had Vista, kept Win7 in play a long time so mostly skipped Win8, and am still using Win10.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Dec 23 - 03:49 AM

I've never seen Windows 11, but from what I've read it seems not to be so much an operating system - for running programs or apps - but more an advertising platform. Microsoft makes most of its money (from ordinary PC buyers, as opposed to businesses) from selling cloud services and subscription software - such as One Drive and Office 365 - so it pushes people into using those. Google obviously does the same with ChromeOS, of course. Does Apple? Dunno; I haven't used a Mac since the original one in the 80's. But my impression is that MacOS is the nearest thing to an Operating System these days.

I'm not sure when this first happened. Win 8? My wife runs Win 10 and it offers weather forecasts (useless) and 'suggests' content she 'might like', which is irritating and intrusive. It's still possible to run without a Microsoft Account, but it needs extra work.

Microsoft is investing heavily in AI, and that piece about Windows 12 suggests that AI might be the main reason for its (apparantly) sudden appearance. Microsoft are building PCs with Neural Processing Units (NPUs) to speed up AI. What AI? In Windows itself? So you need an operating system to support new hardware which is used by ... the operating system? What's the benefit for the PC user?

The only reason my wife needs Windows (she ran Linux for 3 months at my suggestion) is for Powerpoint; the LibreOffice equivalent, Impress, is just not good enough. Hopefully she'll stop needing that before the end of 2025. The 2012 laptop is still working fine.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 24 - 03:09 PM

From PC Magazine:

Microsoft Needs to Get Serious About Its Windows 10 Upgrade Problem
By October 2025, more than a billion PCs will be running a dead operating system, leaving many computers vulnerable to malware or headed for the trash. What's Microsoft going to do about it?

The Windows 10-pocalypse is a short two years away. On Oct. 14, 2025, Microsoft will stop issuing security updates for Windows 10 PCs, at which point most of the world’s PCs—about one billion computers—will be running a dead operating system, like Windows XP. And most of those computers can't upgrade to Windows 11.

Microsoft Is Abandoning Most PCs on the Planet
Half of the readers of my Windows Intelligence newsletter are still using Windows 10 on their primary PC. The one billion estimate comes from two sources: Microsoft, which has said there are more than 1.4 billion Windows PCs, and Statcounter, which shows that the vast majority of PCs on the planet—more than 70%—run Windows 10.

Worse yet, this isn’t like when Microsoft stopped supporting Windows 7. Those PCs could upgrade to Windows 10, but this time around, many Windows 10 PCs don't support Windows 11, at least not officially. If you can't afford to buy a new PC, you'll be left out in the cold after Oct. 14, 2025. From a security perspective, it’ll be as if you were using Windows XP or Windows 7.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 25 - 12:19 PM

I still haven't updated my desktop computer to Win11, but the date is rapidly approaching. It is eligible for the upgrade (can handle it) but my 12-year-old Sony VIAO won't manage the upgrade. It has some software that I don't want to lose, so I'm not planning to do anything to it.

I know we have Linux users on the 'cat, so this question is aimed at you. I've read a couple of things saying those older computers could be set up with Linux to continue use, instead of being recycled and replacements purchased for Windows users. I haven't put any partitions on that laptop, but I suppose I could; would there be any point in setting up a dual-boot system if I don't have the original disks to reinstall the software (Adobe products, right before they went to online subscriptions only). Could the Linux software see and use software store in the Windows environment?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Aug 25 - 01:14 PM

Stilly River Sage wrote: Could the Linux software see and use software store in the Windows environment?

Short answer: no. Linux could see the data on the Windows disks, but could not run the programs, which will only run under Windows.

If you have the Windows installation disks/installer files then you could run them in a virtual Windows machine within Linux (or under 'Wine'), but that's much more complicated.

If you avoid connecting the machine to the internet then you can just continue to run Win 10 on it.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 25 - 01:41 PM

That's probably the fate of this machine. Thing is, this is the backup machine for in case the big one needs work (that does happen occasionally) or if I had to go find a WiFi signal somewhere when cable is out of service here. I don't know if I want another laptop to be the spare that I don't use often. I already have the old desktop that stopped communicating with the Internet (I fixed it a couple of times and that was all Windows would allow - I didn't want to reinstall Windows and lose the software to get it back online). So I connect it to the main desktop using a transfer cable after doing my work on the software (same as on the laptop). The laptop would become another such machine. The department of Redundancy department.

I have an Android tablet and can use it with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard, but it is clunky and slow. But I suppose that will be the backup for now.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 25 - 12:26 PM

You can put it off for a year by subscribing to Microsoft's ESUs:
Microsoft's $30 Windows 10 Security Updates Cover 10 Devices

But you have to agree to a Faustian pact with Microsoft - open an account. I'm guessing that you'd have too much data to qualify for the free option.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 25 - 12:53 PM

I pay for an account already. I could use the productivity software free through my university but I wanted online storage for photos and the amount I get with Microsoft is about $70 a year, less than DropBox and other places.

Yeah, I know about that year extension. It needs looking into - at the end of the year, then what? No support, or they brick it?

Subject: RE: Windows 11 and keyboard function
From: Felipa
Date: 29 Apr 26 - 08:39 AM

I have Windows 10. I remember not being so fond of it when I first switched to the then relatively new version of Windows - the more features are added, the more complicated it gets to use. I have found at least one new feature I like, though - added capability on Notebook./ Since sometime last year, Ive been having keyboard difficulties - most of the time my keys for apostrophe, equal sign, backspace, closed square bracket, the at sign for email addresses, and the enter key. I do need to free more memory space, and maybe if I delete enough files that will help. Someone said that the problem will be sorted if I switch to Windows 11. Is that true??

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Apr 26 - 01:16 PM

You ought to change to Windows 11: Windows 10 support has already ended (unless you enrolled for extended support, in which case it will end soon). After that, no more security updates.

If your current machine is more than about 8 years old it will not run Windows 11. There is a Microsoft program you can run to tell you if it supports Windows 11.

The keyboard troubles are probably a simple configuration matter. Installing Windows 11 probably will fix that. A new machine and keyboard certainly will.

Assuming 'memory' means disk space then that will be solved by deleting some files, or moving them onto removable USB 'passort' type disks. Or moving everything onto a new machine with more disk space.

I suggest you seek some independent advice. There are people who will upgrade it for you, or advise what to buy. They can also make Windows 11 (slightly) less horrible. Ask around.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Felipa
Date: 11 Jul 26 - 03:56 PM

https://www.makeuseof.com/i-disabled-the-3-most-annoying-windows-11-features/

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Jul 26 - 06:49 PM

Still staggering on with my old Windows 10 laptop, now about 13 years old, but I did sign up for the one year extension of updates. Lots of hard disk space left, but going very slow! ( No malware.)
Keep looking at various computer reviews and offers, but still can’t make my mind up. Current laptop is an Acer and has served me very well, so inclining towards another of that brand.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Pappy Fiddle
Date: 19 Jul 26 - 09:21 PM

I tried W11. I decided it's no good. There were a number of reasons, I forget how many. One was, I like to put my tool bar over to the right. It's like the control side, with each window having an X and other controls on that side. W11 abolished that.

Well, I've used about 20 operating systems over the years including linux so I wiped W11 and put linux mint on. It's a little rocky. Surprising number of bugs. But at least I can put the tool bar anywhere I want, and there's no stupid copilot forever interrupting when rational ppl are trying to work.

Windows 10 was excellent, the result of about 40 years of development and a few goofs, like Windows Vista ("A world-class shopping experience!")

Linux is about 5 years along that same path, because so few people use it and so few work on it. So by simple math, it will be a good system in about 280 years from now.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Jul 26 - 12:55 PM

Husband just got an email from Microsoft to say that that the extension of support for Windows 10 is going to carry on for a further year, ending in October 2027. If you had previously registered for the extra year to Oct 2026, you’ll get it automatically - no need to do anything. But I still need a new computer before then: soooooo slooooooowwww!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Jul 26 - 03:55 PM

Yes, Extended Support has been extended - and might be extended again - but Windows 10 does not receive the same level of security fixes as Windows 11.

A Windows 10 device carries an average of 1,903 active CVEs* against 652 on Windows 11. That's a 2.9x gap

* Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures

Windows 10 refuses to die, and the security bill is coming due

New computers are expensive these days because planned AI Datecentres have bought up the entire production for years to come - really! But you can get 3-yo 'refurbished' ones much cheaper.

So if you must run Windows (I run Linux) it'd probably best to upgrade. But it does depend what you use it for.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: DaveRo
Date: 22 Jul 26 - 01:43 AM

DaveRo wrote: ...AI Datecentres have bought up the entire production...

That should have been 'the entire production of memory chips'

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 23 Jul 26 - 04:39 AM

Eventually found that same email from Microsoft on my own computer - in my Hotmail junk folder! Does Microsoft not recognise its own emails?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 23 Jul 26 - 09:53 AM

.... can't .... resist ....

> Does Microsoft not recognise its own emails?

Of course it does; that's why they're in Junk. (badum tish)

.... *Sigh*: I can remember when Hotmail got borged. I've still got the filk I wrote about what happened next ("They pulled Linux out, Put in an NT shop").

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 26 - 10:59 AM

I just found it in the "Other mail" category; not junk, but not what they consider typical. Thanks for the heads up, Tattie! (I wasn't going to do anything different than I do now, though I have threatened to switch to Linux rather than Win11.)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 26 - 11:23 AM

For those who follow other Microsoft activity, they're concerned about all of the AI generated "bug" reports that are sent to GitHub, a place that rewards those who find and report them. GitHub slashes public bug bounty payouts as AI report flood buries its security team

Code shack also putting new limits on first-time researchers, and reserving the biggest rewards for a hand-picked group of proven hunters

The Microsoft-owned biz says that the shake-up is a response to the flood of low-effort and AI-generated reports now accompanying many bug bounty programs. Rather than paying more people to file more reports, GitHub wants to spend more on researchers who've proved they can find the real thing. Cathering Cassell, product security engineer at GitHub. “These changes are about two things: reducing the noise so we can focus on the signal, and building a program that serious researchers find rewarding to participate in.”

For researchers sticking with the public program, a low-severity finding that previously earned between $500 and $1,000 will now bring in $250. Medium bugs top out at $2,000 instead of $5,000, high-severity flaws have been cut from as much as $20,000 to $5,000, and the maximum reward for a critical vulnerability falls from $30,000 to $10,000.