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BS: Obama disappoints again
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Apr 10 - 12:55 PM In my humble opinion a Prius is a toy and an expensive dead end. Its a car for Ed Begleys of the world. A rich man's "prove a point" car. I think that some are getting 40-50 mpg. I think many are not. You would have to be an odd driver indeed to maximize the mileage of a Prius. On the other hand if the majority of the commuters in the cities in which I do business, Charlotte, Atlanta, Raliegh, etc were using plug in hybrids or electric cars with a range as modest as 60 miles, a lot of gas and money could be saved. I have two 2000 Saturn SL1 sedans. I drive a lot. When I fill up I divide the number of miles by the number of gallons, I often exceed 33, sometimes, depending on how much highway and whether I drove closer to 60 or 70 MPH I approach 35.5 mpg. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Rapparee Date: 02 Apr 10 - 03:12 PM My 1999 Honda Civic gets 28 mpg in the city. But the average family can't afford city cars and highway cars. Unless the US does something about intercity transit (e.g., light rail, high speed rail) automobile fuel efficiency won't mean much. I think that higher fuel efficiency=lower demand=higher prices at the pump. Oil companies have to make money, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 02 Apr 10 - 04:53 PM We will survive if oil companies make a little less money and the companies making lithium ion batteries and regenerative brakes make a little more. The prices of gas can only stay as high as people are willing to pay. It cannot rise as demand goes down just to ensure oil company profits. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: mousethief Date: 02 Apr 10 - 05:13 PM It can rise as demand goes down if supply also goes down. If, as the scaremongers say, we have hit "peak oil" we will eventually start to feel the squeeze. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: mousethief Date: 02 Apr 10 - 05:23 PM We bought a Honda Civic Hybrid in 2005. I think it was advertised to get 45 or 48 mpg. We consistently get 38 and when we drive more freeway miles about 40. That's a lot more than 60% of advertised. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Janie Date: 02 Apr 10 - 05:33 PM Well said, LEJ. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Joe_F Date: 02 Apr 10 - 06:31 PM To get anything done, one must move to the center and disappoint the base. "...Roosevelt remarked to a correspondent that he felt the 'New Deal' was outmoded as a slogan and should be changed to 'something like "Win the war."' This suggestion was repudiated with indignation by Republicans and liberals alike.... 'Can the leopard change his spots?' asked the Republican National Chairman -- a little nervously, one suspects, for if spots _can_ be changed, Roosevelt is the leopard to do it. The editors of _The New Republic_, on the other hand, insisted, 'THE NEW DEAL MUST GO ON,'...." -- Dwight Macdonald (Feb. 1944) Likewise, Eisenhower horribly disappointed a lot of mean people by failing to roll back the New Deal. So it goes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 10 - 07:33 PM Actually, if we were to cut our demand for oil then "Basic Econ 101" tells us that the prices will also fall if supply remains stable... I'm all for the car companies being forced to increase fuel economy... Yeah, the Tea Party people don't like the feds tellin' anyone jack about jack but ya' know what, folks??? The reason that the US has slipped so badly in the last 30 years is because we have allowed the markets to police themselves... That has not been good for anyone but the super wealthy... Not our workers... Not our standings in the world... Not our collective quality of life... Not our infastrcture... Not our political system... Not much of anything other than the rich having a 30 run on the country's wealth... It's way past time for the grown ups to haul in the the croooks... And it's way past time for the federal government to act in the interetss of Joe Sixpack and not Sammy Silverspoon... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Apr 10 - 07:55 PM George Soros is making record profits! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Apr 10 - 08:16 PM "reason that the US has slipped so badly in the last 30 years" Actually that really is because "The Big Money" thought they could make more by NOT making physical things (but make them cheaper overseas), but by just owning 'the intellectual property' and screwing the whole world - worked for a while before China played the same game the US did in its early days - eg why Dickens travelled to the US was to make money from lectures cause the USA denied "Copyright" to anybody else in the world but US Publishers.... :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: pdq Date: 02 Apr 10 - 08:17 PM It is also a very good time for Mexico's Carlos Slim, the world's wealthiest man with 53 billion dollars. He is also a huge investor in the New York Times, the one print media mouthpiece that really has a effect on public opinion in the U.S. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: GUEST,bankley Date: 02 Apr 10 - 08:35 PM "The two party system is like some guy looking in the mirror admiring himself"... Kinky Freidman |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Bobert Date: 02 Apr 10 - 08:53 PM Yo, Rigs... Check it out... George Soros is one of thousands of folks who are 4rakin' in the big dough... Why is it that he becomes the "poster boy" of the rich and greedy??? Because he supports Democrats??? But whup??? How about the the other thousands of folks who are gamin' the system??? What, they chopped liver??? I mean, ya'll give tghis ol' boney hillbilly a break... George Soros and the Holy Grail ain't one of the same... Get over it!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Apr 10 - 09:23 PM George Soros bankrolled Move.On.Org and got Obama elected, now he's cashing in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: robomatic Date: 02 Apr 10 - 10:39 PM I've been in favor of some oil development, particularly in the Alaska Native Wilderness Reserve (ANWR) due to the limited nature of the environmental impact, and LINKED TO STRONG CONSERVATION measures, such as a strong tax on gasoline at the pump. NOT disappointed in Obama. And as expected, the Conservatives/ Republicans are finding all sorts of fault with even this measure, although the smarter Alaskans have been pleasantly surprised, and said so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: DougR Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:23 AM Carol C: Surprise! We are in agreement on something! I'm definitely right of center. However no more right than RR. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Bobert Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:50 AM He bankrolled Obama's election, Rigs??? Pee in the cup, mah man... B! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:30 AM Maybe so, DougR. If Reagan had his way, you wouldn't be getting any Medicare at all, whereas you do tend to believe in socialism when you can get something out of it yourself. You just don't like it if it helps others but you can't get anything out of it. On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet money that if Reagan needed a program like Medicare, he would have been all for it, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:37 AM "Pee in the cup, mah man..." He bankrolled Move.On.ogr -- no cup needed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: artbrooks Date: 03 Apr 10 - 10:39 AM MoveOn is a progressive organization. I'm sure that they would have rather had a progressive elected, but they (and we) got Mr. Obama. Mr. Soros exercised his right as a citizen to donate $2.5 million to MoveOn. He also gave $1000 to Mr. McCain. Are large political contributions only ok if they are to candidates on the right? He also gave 14 times as much ($35 million) for educational supplies to low-income children of New York than he gave to MoveOn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:02 PM Of course, there are more children in New York than there are Move.On supporters in the country. But he's consistant. He gives to people with juvenile mentalities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: pdq Date: 03 Apr 10 - 12:59 PM Those interested in finding out the EPA mileage rating of current productuion cars can check... here example: 2010 Toyota Corolla 2.4L engine with automatic transmission... city: 22 mpg. highway: 30 mpg. combined: 25 mpg. Sorry, proud new Toyota owners, but this absolutely standard model is 40% short of new standards. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:00 PM >>He gives to people with juvenile mentalities. What about the above quotation, are angling for a donation? At first I thought your words were vile Now I see they're just juvenile |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Greg F. Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:05 PM I'd be willing to bet money that if Reagan needed a program like Medicare, he would have been all for it, too. Well he and Nancy-poo were virulently anti-stem cell research until The Gipper went REALLY brain-dead. Then all of a sudden Nancy-poo thought stem cell research was a WONDERFUL idea. Q.E.D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 10 - 02:04 PM "He gives to people with juvenile mentalities." I should let him know about Shane then, shouldn't I? Shane is always in need of money. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:44 PM Good point! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:46 PM "...he and Nancy-poo were virulently anti-stem cell research until The Gipper went REALLY brain-dead." When was he not? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Ron Davies Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:55 PM "part of a larger plan" Ah, yes, the perennial favorite: the amorphous dark overarching plan of exploitation by both parties in league together, but of course in the service of some other malevolent force: as I recall, world capitalism is always a top choice for this role. Though organized religion is also another prime candidate. Does fuzzy thinking have to always come with the folkie membership card? Or, at this Mudcat Cafe, I'd like to order one from the clear-thinking part of the menu. Is the Cafe completely out? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM Ah, yes, the perennial favorite: Ron Davies waxes snide, superior, and sarcastic over other people's "fuzzy thinking" and their laughably dark and dreadful "conspiracy theories". He then asks some wonderful rhetorical questions, questions that clearly neither seek nor require an answer, but which should serve to put the woefully ignorant firmly in their place...questions like, "Does fuzzy thinking have to always come with the folkie membership card?" He smiles a grim and sardonic smile, sucks on his slice of fresh sour lime, and hits "submit"... And life goes merrily on at Mudcat Cafe. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Peter T. Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:41 PM This is just part of the old failed bipartisanism which makes no sense, as it is in the interest of the Republican party to say no to everything -- there is an election coming up, and they have already determined their strategy which is complete anti-Obamaism. On what possible grounds would any of them vote for anything he wants? He could climb naked up a goldplated statue of Ronald Reagan and kiss it, and they still wouldn't vote for him. It is hard to believe someone so smart could be so stupid. A completely pointless giveaway. It will win him absolutely no votes on any climate or energy bill. He got nothing for all the health care giveaways, and will get nothing for this. The man is delusional. He still thinks, in spite of the evidence, that he is in some Chicago church basement talking to different interest groups. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 10 - 04:46 PM "he could climb naked up a goldplated statue of Ronald Reagan and kiss it, and they still wouldn't vote for him" Gah!!! What a creepy mental image, Peter! ;-) But I'm afraid you're probably right that the Republicans would oppose virtually anything Obama did. There's one thing I think the Republicans would support him on. Waging a war on Iran. It's definitely not worth trying it out, though, just to see if I'm right about that... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Sawzaw Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:16 PM "President Obama and his policies must be opposed. " michaelr: You are a troll. Obama has his good points and his bad points. Anybody that thinks someone is all bad or all good does not have the ability to determine what is good and what is bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:27 PM LH, it's scattershot trolling. It's designed to snare pretty much anyone in the Mudcat because it's non-specific and all encompassing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: CarolC Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:29 PM (My last post was in response to this one - 03 Apr 10 - 04:35 PM from LH.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: dick greenhaus Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:34 PM In this country, we have (for better or worse) a two-party system. If those who elected Obama are disappoited, they might consider the state we'd be in if McCain and what's-her-name had won. Overall, considering the governmental framework he must work in, I feel that Obama's doing pretty damn well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:40 PM Obama is facing the same problem as presidents before him- if Congress is divided, it is impossible to carry through on campaign promises. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:41 PM Ron Davies, There are many many on this forum who think and post a lot more clearly than you. I'd put Bill D's thinking up against yours any day and as an artistic wood carver/autoharp player his "folkie membership card" is in perfect standing. On the other hand, you seem to be saying that you do not have a "folkie membership card" because you seem to be claiming that you do not suffer from the "folkie" malady. Generalizations of this sort are always ugly especially when they are combined with obvious hypocrisy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:46 PM A. The Republicans are supporting the escalation in Aghanistan. B. Obama is betting that if he keeps offering his hand to the Republicans and they keep batting it away, the public will see both him and the Republicans for what they are. C. I believe that Obama is a principled man and he thinks that the people who voted Republican at least deserve a chance to be represented on big issues. The Republican's choice NOT to represent them is their failing. It is not Obama's. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Lox Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:49 PM Jack, Its a tough political line Obama has chosen, and the returns may not come, but you are right to admire him for taking it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:51 PM >>Anybody that thinks someone is all bad or all good does not have the ability to determine what is good and what is bad. I more or less agree with this. But I suspect that Michalr is saying that for political reasons, not because he thinks it. The equation is Obama defeat= Republican victory Disregarding the costs or the effect on the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: michaelr Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:06 PM "You are a troll." Actually I am a (secretly female) Dwarf, but I've been recruited into the City Watch nonetheless. Trolls are much larger and have diamond teeth. Where did I ever say that Obama is all bad? That would be an ad hominem attack. What I did was list several of his policies that should be (and are) opposed by progressives. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:28 PM Oh you are an internet troll all right or some kind of condescending partisan evangelist. A difference without a distinction I think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:39 PM ""Ah, yes, the perennial favorite: Ron Davies waxes snide, superior, and sarcastic over other people's "fuzzy thinking" and their laughably dark and dreadful "conspiracy theories"."" AH YES LH! He does sound rather like you, doesn't he? But it's different when you are the victim, rather than the patronising, snide, superior, and sarcastic poster, isn't it mate? You might like to give that some thought, Eh? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:43 PM I was expecting just that very comment, Don! ;-) It was only a question of when and from whom. I know this place so well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Stringsinger Date: 03 Apr 10 - 07:51 PM Obama is a Republican in the old sense of the word. Not the new crazy GOP. Clinton was a Republican president too. Too many people were fooled into believing that Obama would be a "progressive" president in the mold of FDR. His magical speeches created a false expectation among those on the left. Afghanistan and Iraq are the greatest contributors to the national debt. You don't see the GOP crazies talking about that. The issues have been hi-jacked by CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS and all the so-called news media. If you look under the curtain you will see innocents being killed for no just reason in the Middle East and more weaponry being sent to Israel to suppress Gazans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Bobert Date: 03 Apr 10 - 09:23 PM I'm afraid that Strings is correct... Obama is an old style Republican... I mean, times change and everythng has shifted somewhat to the right from where it once was... There are alot of reasons for this shift, the assasinations of the left's brightest and best being one of them... But it's more than that... It's 3 decades of corporatism without any restrictions or governance which has led to the take-over of mass media owned lock,stock and barrel by the corporatist pumping out propagnada 24/7 and thus what we have is not only a dumbed down society incapable of independent thought but one that has been bought off with what they percieve to be comforts... So it's kinda a "garbage in - garbage out" situation that we are living thru... The problem is that while the corportists have done very well Joe Sixpack has done very poorly over these three decades... He ain't making as much money as his counterparts in other developed countries... He doesn't have anywhere the same amount of vacation time... He's sicker and dieing younger... So, given the overall decay in America's working class and ability to think critically of complex issues it is a wonder that Obama is even in the White House...But since he is, I am hoping that he is there for the remainder of this term (given the wacko righties out there is no given) but also another term after that... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Sawzaw Date: 04 Apr 10 - 02:28 AM The equation is Obama defeat= Republican victory Disregarding the costs or the effect on the country. I am constantly derided by the great thinkers here that trying to make equations out of facts or truth is dumb, I say it is logic. If A + B = C then C - B = A So jacks formula can also be expressed as Obama victory = Republican failure Disregarding the costs or the effect on the country. I am not rooting for Republicans or Obama. I simply want them to do the right thing and quit the squabbling, name calling and trying to buy success with money we don't have. People have to study both sides of each issue and make a decision rather than blindly following one gang or another. No one is right all the time and no one is wrong all the time but people take sides to the point that they will deny something they know is true just because it might weaken the position of their side. This is also known as tribalism. The media is taking us back to tribalism for their profit. Why can't people see it? Little Hawk sees it. He has some misconceptions about other things but at least he can see the political circus going on here. They elected representatives are only concerned with being elected or being re elected. I heard one Congressman say they have to start campaigning a year before the election. How can they get their work done. We are paying them while they campaign. I think Obama means well but because of the usual re election politics he is forced to do things. I think it's time to dump out all the incumbents and hit the reset button. It could not be any worse than it is now. I saw a chart of those 34 Dems that voted against the health care bill and damn near every one was from a district where McCain won the last election. Connection there? It ain't about what is best for the people any more, it is about what is best for them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Apr 10 - 09:13 AM ""I was expecting just that very comment, Don! ;-) It was only a question of when and from whom. I know this place so well."" Happy to be of service, friend. I just wonder why the erudite, common sense leavened with humour poster that I used to admire when I first came here, turned into an o'erweening, patronising and terminally cynical belittler of everybody else's viewpoint. Any thoughts on that? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Jack the Sailor Date: 04 Apr 10 - 12:15 PM Pdq, Fuel efficient, conventional cars are in reach. One simply has to buy a smaller car with a less wasteful engine. This is the mileage chart from Edmunds from all 2010 Corrollas Base FWD 1.8L I4 Manual 30 mpg $15,450 Base FWD 1.8L I4 Auto 29 mpg $16,250 S FWD 1.8L I4 Manual 30 mpg $16,520 LE FWD 1.8L I4 Auto 29 mpg $16,850 S FWD 1.8L I4 Auto 29 mpg $17,350 XLE FWD 1.8L I4 Auto 29 mpg $17,750 XRS FWD 2.4L I4 Manual 25 mpg $18,960 XRS FWD 2.4L I4 Auto 25 mpg $20,150 2010 Toyota Yaris Drivetrain Engine Trans. Fuel Econ. MSRP 2010 Toyota Yaris Coupe (3 Dr Hatchback) Base FWD 1.5L I4 Manual 32 mpg $12,605 Base FWD 1.5L I4 Auto 31 mpg $13,405 2010 Toyota Yaris Sedan (5 Dr Hatchback) Base FWD 1.5L I4 Manual 32 mpg $12,905 Base FWD 1.5L I4 Auto 31 mpg $13,705 2010 Toyota Yaris Sedan Base FWD 1.5L I4 Manual 32 mpg $13,365 Base FWD 1.5L I4 Auto 31 mpg $14,165 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Apr 10 - 12:18 PM 100!!!! |
