BS: Obama disappoints again

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:06 AM

Don T,

How is your last comment addresing the FACT that you attack people rather than their ideas? Isn't it another example of exactly what I stated you are doing- attacking me rather than showing that you disagree with the facts I state?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 05:53 PM

""How is your last comment addresing the FACT that you attack people rather than their ideas? Isn't it another example of exactly what I stated you are doing- attacking me rather than showing that you disagree with the facts I state?""

Since you do exactly the same in multiple threads, I don't feel I need to justify anything too you BB.

If you can't take it, don't dish it out!

I give back what I get. A smile gets a smile, and a snarl gets a snarl, and a genuine effort to discuss gets an appropriate response.

Try the latter sometime, and I'll reply in kind.

Not happened yet.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:16 PM

Same problem I have with, Sawz, Don... But no... It's attack, attack, attack on his part... And the strange thing is that he doesn't attack on the substance of a thread but some other thing that he thinks he needs to attack me over which probably has alot of people wonderin', "What was that all about???"

Well, my answer is, "I don't have a clue"... When the guy can't find any current thread to attack me over he'll dig up and old one????

But like you, Don... I'd love to ***discuss*** some of these issues... The problem is that folks will cut 'n paste their way outta having any discusssion... Or they will change the subjsct...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 06:39 PM

Don T

Please show me where I have attacked another person ( as opposed to their presented opinions) without first having been attacked by them when they disagreed with MY opinion?

If I say you are wrong because of x and y, that is an attack ON YOUR FACTS.

If you say I am saying "... either Republican propaganda crap, or thinly disguised Republican propaganda crap, " without any support for your statement YOU are stating an opinion, and not ( supported ) fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Apr 10 - 11:43 PM

"By Richard Wolf, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON —
It won't be the last threat Bowles gets this year as he directs an 18-member, bipartisan commission through an ocean of red ink that has never been deeper or more foreboding.

Under Obama's budget plan, the USA's debt in 2020 would be nearly the size of the entire economy then. Interest costs would be $900 billion, five times today's level."

Sorta' stupid, huh?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 12:08 AM

Maybe if everybody would just step back and look at the bigger picture...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 08:04 AM

Mea culpa.   There are obviously clear-thinking Mudcatters.    Amos, Don T , and Bill D are three who immediately come to mind. But there are also an amazing number who subscribe to any number of absurd conspiracy theories--I am thinking especially of those who indeed seem to ascribe all the problems of the world to either world capitalism or organized religion. Those who can only grasp a Manichean view of politics and economics.   Those who want desperately to believe that, for instance, the US government was responsible for the destruction of the twin towers---and therefore that if those who don't buy this can't answer every question put by him or her, it must be true.

Etc.

"The task of filling up the blanks I'd rather leave to you."

As was perfectly put earlier in this thread:   title should be "Obama disappoints me again".   And if he does:   "The fault, dear Brutus..."

If the shoe fits....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 10:02 AM

I am thinking especially of those who indeed seem to ascribe all the problems of the world to either world capitalism or organized religion.

Glad to hear that you're thinking, Ron. Do keep at it.

No-one (other than yourself- the all-knowing and all-seeing Simple Seeker) has ascribed "all" the problems to either. However, ther ARE responsible for quite a few.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:18 PM

""If you say I am saying "... either Republican propaganda crap, or thinly disguised Republican propaganda crap, " without any support for your statement YOU are stating an opinion, and not ( supported ) fact.""

It is still an opinion based on the substance of your post, not your personality, and it is presented as my opinion, unless I specifically state that it is a FACT.

I am, as are you, entitled to an opinion, unless of course free speech is limited to that speech with which you agree.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:28 PM

Yes GUEST?

And your point is?

Don T,.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 02:40 PM

sorry, that guest was me- no cookie here.

Your post was, I believe, in reply to my

""Just stop insulting and bullying the people who don't happen to agree with you about some issue or another."

He can't do that.

Since he has no valid basis to defend his own opinions, nor to attack the opinions of others, he is forced to attack the people who disagree with him.

Or at least that is what is to be derived from his past posts. "


MY OPINION is that those here attacking other posters ( rather than the posts) have conceded that they have no rational support for their attacks, or their opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 09:56 PM

Well, Greg, how delightful to hear from you.   Hope you're not too uncomfortable outside the gutter.

And if you think Mudcatters are willing to accept that there are other causes for world problems than world capitalism and organized religion, why don't you start the ball rolling with a few suggestions other than those two?

It is truly remarkable how seldom anything else gets cited as a source for problems--though of course Israel is another favorite target--perhaps falling under the "organized religion" rubric.

As always, a bit of logic and common sense would be appreciated. If you can manage it.

Thanks so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 10:07 PM

Wiwig is taking two quotations from other people taht I pasted and trying to attribute them to me:

"Republicans reflected the public will with respect to health care. Every poll showed significant opposition to the health care legislation. By 2-1 the American people said stop it from passing. We tried to do that. But the Democrats were able to jam it through."

"Although I am a Democrat, I personally believe it is better to do it the way Republicans do it. That way, a individual can research their favorite charities and foundations and give directly to them based on thier own beliefs."

Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 15 Apr 10 - 10:50 PM

CC says: "big polluters would still pay for their carbon emissions, but the money would go to the taxpayers in a similar way that people in Alaska get a dividend from the oil companies for the oil they take from Alaska. This money could be used by the taxpayers to pay for more fuel efficient means of transportation."

I am not trying to be argumentative here but anytime a tax or any kind of fee is imposed, a higher price shows up somewhere. In the case of energy. It shows up everywhere from food to electricity.

The people in Alaska my benefit but the extra expense is passed on to the rest of America.

There is always the unintended consequences. It takes 1 gallon of fuel to produce 1.35 gallons of corn ethanol. The use of corn causes the price of corn to rise for people all over the world.

In Brazil they destroy the rain forest to make more land to grow soybeans for diesel fuel.

Burning bio diesel still produces the same amount of CO2 but now there is less rain forest to convert the CO2 back into O2.

And it raises the price of soybean products all over the world.

I am all for more efficient use of energy, cleaner sources of energy and less pollution but I don't think taxing things is the answer. It always ends up hurting the little guy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/22/quarter-us-grain-biofuels-food

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 01:22 AM

Don: "Yes GUEST?"

Was that directed at me, or someone else?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:28 PM

GfS, if it were directed at you, I would have said GfS.
It was directed at the one who signed in simply as GUEST.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:40 PM

Just for the record, I'm not all that disappointed with Obama... And, frankly, I am wondering why so many Repubs seem to be... Face it, he ain't no socialist or he wouldn't have a signed a health care reform bill that had no provisions for either single payer or a public option...

Now would I have liked to see those in the bill??? Darned right, I would... But I, like Obama, have turned more into a pragmatist in that, hey, this is a start...

I was slightly disappointed with his stance on oil drilling... I mean, if the Repubs were honextly negotiating anything at all then maybe... But they aren't... They are the AWOL Party so I say as long as they don't want to play then leave them out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 07:41 PM

""Wiwig is taking two quotations from other people taht I pasted and trying to attribute them to me:""

There is no indication of a cut and paste on that post, SoreJaw, so if it is attributed to you, it's because that's how you made it look.

Perhaps you would like to prove your assertion by pointing to the "real" source of those two sentences.

No?

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 16 Apr 10 - 11:52 PM

Republicans reflected the public will with respect to health care. Every poll showed significant opposition to the health care legislation. By 2-1 the American people said stop it from passing. We tried to do that. But the Democrats were able to jam it through.

Although I am a Democrat, I personally believe it is better to do it the way Republicans do it. That way, a individual can research their favorite charities and foundations and give directly to them based on thier own beliefs

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 12:05 AM

From: Bobert - PM
Date: 04 Nov 08 - 09:42 PM

Hey, Sawz...

Ain't you the guy who is supportin' the guy who doesn't even know how many houses he owns???

The plane??? Snazzin' up and gettin a 30 year old airplane safe to fly not only him but some 100 memebrs of the press corp si a different subject... I know a little about airplanes and they need alot or work from time to time... That's what Obama did... He bought a "beater", refurbrished it the best he could and over a hundred people been flyin' on that sumabich ever since...

Oh, so that is a crime??? Heck, this "beater" was in such bad shape that it even almost crashed once???

But now Obama is the bad guy, Sawz???

Come on, man...

Yer arguments are bcoming tiresome...

B~

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh North American Airlines Operates Campaign Aircraft for Barack Obama

I never said I supported McCain

The houses were held in a blind trust

The "almost crash" was on the ground and due to human error

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 03:31 AM

Ok, Don.......

May you strum, or pick merrily!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 08:24 AM

Thank you.

I stand corrected.

Perhaps next time, if you use the customary method of presenting cut 'n paste material..............?

That way we'll know you are quoting somebody else.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Apr 10 - 08:25 AM

And, for the record, the ease and grace that Obama has demonstarted in dealing with foriegn leaders, evidenced by his recent summit on controlling existing nuclear stockpiles, is somethig that would have had Bush in way over Bush's head...

Of course the Repubs don't like it... It really bugs them that the Dems have in Obama someone who is competent... Go figure??? Make one wonder if the Repubs just are hoping that everything goes wrong in the country so they can get back in power and make things go even wronger if that's what it takes to get back into the big $$$$...

That's what this is about folks... All the Repubs want is to get back to the Gravy Train... They don't really give a flyin' fig about the country... They just want the power and the $$$$... Nothing else... No make that, "absolutely" nothin else!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Sawzaw
Date: 05 May 10 - 01:44 AM

"Yo, sawz... For the ump-teenth time, the aspect of "THE SURGE" (oh, how scarey) that worked was putting Sunnis on the American taxpayer's payroll... Not the Sarah Palin-ish simplistic view of more troops which had nothing to do with the Sunnis quitting shooting at US..."

So everything would have gone the same with no increase in troops? Yes or no?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 10 - 01:52 AM

Come on, Sawz - it takes you 19 days to come up with that response? Weak, man, weak.

Once again: This thread is about off-shore oil drilling.

Does anyone have anything to say about that TODAY???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:00 AM

michaelr: "Once again: This thread is about off-shore oil drilling.

Does anyone have anything to say about that TODAY???"

Let me see now,.......let me cut and paste something....:

RE: BS: Obama disappoints again

So, I guess THAT'S what the thread is about..One thing after another....stuff starts to add up...its ALL about NOW!!

Remindingly Respectful,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: mousethief
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:26 AM

I think you're in the wrong thread, michaelr. Ask the concierge for directions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:42 AM

T thought I was on you skip list!
(couldn't resist, eh?)

Nope, its the right thread!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 10 - 01:45 PM

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash

By ERIKA LOVLEY | 5/5/10 5:05 AM EDT

While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions they've taken from the oil and gas giant over the years.

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the company's political action committees — $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.

On top of that, the oil giant has spent millions each year on lobbying — including $15.9 million last year alone — as it has tried to influence energy policy.

During his time in the Senate and while running for president, Obama received a total of $77,051 from the oil giant and is the top recipient of BP PAC and individual money over the past 20 years, according to financial disclosure records.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html#ixzz0n4uFSA95

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 May 10 - 01:58 PM

The main reason Obama disappoints so badly is...he's just not that funny! He's too intelligent and serious and cerebral to be very funny at all. Remember how funny George Bush was??? Remember how funny Bill Clinton was??? Obama simply can't compete with that. It's boring not having a president who can set people rolling in the aisles every time he screws up.

Check out my thread "Remember how much fun this was?" for a reminder of how cool it can be to have a president who inspired hearty laughter instead of mere low level frustration... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:13 PM

"He's too intelligent and serious and cerebral to be very funny at all."

Tsk...such a problem! *I* happen to think he's pointedly funny when the situation warrants. There's not a whole lot of things to laugh at on his plate right now.

(Oh..and by the way... Obama DID disappoint me a couple of weeks ago! He was responding to questions about some disaster, and he said....*gasp*..."It just wrecked havoc on the....". My faith is totally shattered! I may have to vote....ummmm...let me see, who DOES know better?)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 May 10 - 02:37 PM

Bill....you have to admit that he isn't anything as funny as G.W. Bush or Bill Clinton were! ;-)

Obama needs to do some really totally wacky stuff to enliven his presidency and get people in a good mood again. I don't know what, but it should be something that's really off the wall...not harmful, mind you...just downright idiotic.

Maybe I should have Chongo give him some advice on that...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:25 PM

Hey mousethief, it's my freakin' thread. I know where I am!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:45 PM

I am more than happy to trade an entertaining psycho for a steady-on, articulate man with brains and the ability to use them.

Life disappoints--this oil spill is no joke. But I think it is really silly to try and imply that Obama was in BP's pocket about it. Especially with no concrete evidence.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:48 PM

Amos,

"But I think it is really silly to try and imply that Obama was in BP's pocket about it. Especially with no concrete evidence."


"BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the company's political action committees — $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals."


Bought and paid for, documented, and YOU think it is silly.

Yet Bush should be impeached becaused YOU don't understand conditional statements (IF a THEN b.)?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 10 - 03:52 PM

Conflating campaign donations with political control post-election is a big assumption, for which you have no evidence. What has Obama done for BP that you think was a quid-pro-quo? Care to specify? Your underhanded generalizations are as tasty as tarballs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 10 - 05:03 PM

Amos,

"Conflating campaign donations with political control post-election is a big assumption, for which you have no evidence."


You want me to go badck and get your anti-Bush comments that did exactly that????


Double standard, again.

If the contributions made Bush a slave to his contributors, then Obama has the same chains.

If it does not, you owe Bush and those of us who argued you to be wrong an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 05:26 PM

Sorry, Bruce...but you gotta do more than compare cherry-picked numbers to compare influence. There is EVIDENCE that Bush did exactly what certain campaign contributors wanted... I don't see much that Obama has done to please them.

and..""BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama,"

My calculator says that comes to an average $180,000 per year, for ALL contributions...and even IF Obama's campaign received the 'largest' chunk a couple of years ago, it doesn't sound like much money as these things go. Do you really think "bought & paid for" applies for a few thousand? Some companies just 'spread it around', attempting to get who they 'think' might suit them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 10 - 05:30 PM

Amos: "Life disappoints--this oil spill is no joke. But I think it is really silly to try and imply that Obama was in BP's pocket about it. Especially with no concrete evidence."

Neither was the NYC terrorist attempt, yet the left was all to ready to blame Tea Party people for it, before anything was known!....Double Standard??......or just reckless, mindless, trigger happy whiners??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:12 PM

BillD,

"I don't see much that Obama has done to please them."

Oh? You seem to have your eyes shut. Look at his payoffs to the unions- re GM alone.

As a stockholder, I get nothing.

The Union got 20some percent.

Stockholders represented a much larger amount of the investment in GM, but got the shaft. Union ( that paid heavily into Obama'a campaign) got a big payoff.

Show me ANY example of a payoff of that magnitude in relation to the Bush administration.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:18 PM

Let me see...

Obama got $72,000 from BP - and clearly has not been influenced in any way.
McCann got $36,000 from BP- and thus was in the pockets of the oil companies.


NOW I understand what a Liberal means by fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Bill D
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:19 PM

"Payoffs"??

Sheesh... every action or decision is in SOMEONE'S favor. Why is something that didn't get YOU a check automatically a 'payoff'?

The GM mess was not exactly what I'd call a response to political contributions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 10 - 06:42 PM

The premise of this thread is that Obama announced plans to open coastal areas that have been protected for decades to oil and gas drilling. This would doubtless be in BP's interest, don't you think?

He did so just a couple of weeks before the current Gulf disaster unfolded demonstrating exactly why that is a bad idea. Heck, even the Goobernator of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, just went public saying that the oil isn't worth the risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Amos
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:12 PM

GfS: I know of NO instance where anyone said or implied that the Times Square bomb was blamed on Tea Prty people by anyone.

Yet in your perfervid imagining you attribute such an off-the-wall accusation yo some delusory generality you call "liberals"?? That's ridiculous, at best.

Bruce:

Specifically what policy or action of Obama's are you attributing to having been bought by BP if any? Recall that it was Republican pressure that kept[ off-shore drilling on the table as a campaign and post-campaign issue.

A

Subject: Old Time Record Lady music
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:14 PM

I am a little new at this. Hope you can help.
Attempting to find music from the record lady. Do you have any idea
who can help me?

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 May 10 - 10:02 PM

"I know of NO instance where anyone said or implied that the Times Square bomb was blamed on Tea Prty people by anyone."

             But Mayor Bloomberg surmised that is was some right wing political type who disagreed with the healthcare bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 May 10 - 10:07 PM

"I am a little new at this. Hope you can help.
Attempting to find music from the record lady. Do you have any idea
who can help me?

[e-mail]"

It's my understanding, Guest, that the Record Lady shut down because of various problems, legal and otherwise. 'The Honking Duck' may still be going though. I haven't used it for some time but it was there not too long ago. A good resource.

Why don't you become a Mudcat member? It's easily done.

Eb

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: michaelr
Date: 05 May 10 - 11:30 PM

Will you people quit derailing my f@#$%^g thread!!??

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 May 10 - 12:52 AM

sshhh, Michaelr. I was hoping you wouldn't notice my directing her to memberhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama disappoints again
From: mousethief
Date: 06 May 10 - 12:58 AM

michaelr: Heck, even the Goobernator of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, just went public saying that the oil isn't worth the risk.

Hindsight is 20/20. Comparing what the Schwartz said after the spill to what Obama said before the spill is ridiculous. You can't possibly think it's a fair comparison.