BS: antagonyms - list here

Subject: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:27 AM

Wiki says:

antagonym, Janus word (after the Roman god with two faces), enantiodrome, self-antonym, antilogy, or addad or even contranym

single words that have two opposing meanings.

just to get the list started
1) fast (speed) fast (stuck)
2) bolt (speed) bolt (fasten) - clue there for the origin of 1b)

there are many more - what are your favourite ambiguity words?

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jos
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 08:50 AM

cleave - cling together / slice apart (as in cleaver)
sanction - approve / impose penalties

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:36 AM

Ha! You've been reading Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue!
I'd call them contronyms.

Here are some more:-

sanguine (bloodthirsty or calm and cheerful)
ravish (to rape or to enrapture)
trying (doing one's best or being annoying)
blunt (dull as used for an instrument, but to the point when used for a remark)
They're quite useful when writing school reports. For example, "James has been trying this term."

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 09:55 AM

But some of these are also nouns with meanings different from either of the verb forms:

bolt: the projectile shot from a crossbow.
blunt: a type of arrow without a sharp point.
trying: rendering whale blubber into oil.

"The Church will sanction the sanction."

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 10:05 AM

Trump.

1. Fart. Noisy and full of wind. Unpleasant to the environment
2. President of the United States

Oh, hang on, that is the same thing...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 10:10 AM

Hahahahahaha Dave!!!!! Good one.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 10:27 AM

Endorsement (see 'sanction' above)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:11 PM

A poem composed of a dozen two faced words with an overall double entendre meaning could be a classic.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: JennieG
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:02 AM

Execute -

1. To do away with someone.
2. To do something.

Old joke: Mother to son's violin teacher "and what do you think of Little Jimmy's execution?" Music teacher: "I'm all in favour of it!"

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 03:01 AM

LOL












and loll?

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 12:12 PM

Refrain
1.Don't do it
2.Do sing it!
Fatal
1.Determined by fate
2.Deadly

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Apr 18 - 09:32 PM

There was a young fellow named Hall
Who fell in the Spring in the Fall.
It would have been a sad thing
If he'd died in the Spring,
But he didn't, he died in the Fall.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:57 AM

pass over
Passover

reel - drum (non musical)
real played on a bodhran - Musical (cue discussion which we won't pass over)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM

Ohhhhhhhhhh, here's one to get my amateur philologist dander up! (Great idea, Red! ;-) )

Fast - The original sense is 'firm, secure'. From 'firm' to 'strong, vigorous', from thence to 'quick'
Bolt - OE 'arrow' In the sense of 'secure', it's the similarity of form (long & narrow); in the sense of speed (of horses, veg, et al) it's from the notion of 'fly like an arrow'.
Cleave - This is an interesting one. Split. Cloven (as in hoof) is directly related. The opposite meaning derives from a word related to both clay & climb i.e. stick to!
Sanction - this is simply "to approve". Positive or negative is beside the point. It derives from the Latin "to ratify".
Sanguine - Another odd one. Literally 'of blood'. So bloody, bloodthirsty is fairly obvious. The cheerful aspect of the meaning comes from the medieval theory of humours (oddly enough, I was talking to someone down the pub about this yesterday in reference to melancholy!). Sanguine types were seen as having ruddy complexions (blood again) and optimistic personalities. Hence, cheerful. Although that sense is usually used in the negative ('not sanguine').
Ravish - to seize & carry off. So either literally (with implications), or 'of the senses'.
Try - the origin of that word is in an Old French word meaning 'to sift'. You can sort out your own interpretations of the various uses!
Blunt - Sorry, Sen, there's nothing pointed about blunt. Dull or insensitive are the OED definitions.
Endorsement - 'write on the back of...' As with sanction, nothing in the word itself says it should be positive or negative in application.
Execute - Simply, to carry out. Executing a sentence doesn't necessarily mean killing someone!
Refrain - Another good one. In sense 1 (from the French), 'bridle' i.e. something that can stop something. In sense 2, also from the French, to break up (in the sense that a refrain 'interrupts' the narrative of the verses). The French origins are different words but, I suspect if you could track it back one step further, the convergent sense is obvious.
Fatal - This does originate in the word fate, but the only given meaning of it is 'causing death'. There is no sense of 'determined by fate'.

I hope this dreary exposition is of some interest. I had fun looking up some of the ones I wasn't sure of! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jos
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 10:46 AM

'sanction' may have originated from a word meaning 'to ratify', but words do change their meanings and acquire extra meaning, and, whether you like it or not, 'sanction' does now refer to penalties and punishments.

Oxford Dictionaries

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Splott Man
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 02:42 PM

Premium

Premium rate: expensive
Premium lager: cheap

Splott Man

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Raedwulf
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 04:00 PM

Jos, you have misunderstood. If you want to be precise about it (and therefore correct, in a limited sense), sanction can be used as a verb or as a noun.

Sanction means 'to ratify'. If you sanction something, you approve it. Doesn't matter whether it's approving something seen as positive or negative. But, in that sense, sanction is a verb - you are doing something. Sanction, as a noun, is only used in the sense of 'penalty'. In that context, yes, you are correct. But that isn't the whole of the word, nor its original usage.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Apr 18 - 09:28 PM

"Sanctioning" is a gerund.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jos
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 02:35 AM

I do know the difference between a noun and a verb. If you go to the Oxford Dictionaries site that I posted a link to, and look down the page to the ‘Verb’ section, you will see:

2        Impose a sanction or penalty on.

Oxford Dictionaries base their definitions not only on a word’s origins, but on the way the word is currently used.

(I didn’t like it when I first came across it, Raedwolf, but sometimes one has to accept that a large number of people may have a valid opinion different from one's own.)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 04:13 AM

Maybe they should be majoranyms.

the Majorana particle

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 04:26 AM

Jos - yes, it's one of the meanings, but only one; the other is also given in my OED (I double-checked everything in my first post against it to ensure I wasn't making a berk of meself! ;-) ). I'm not arguing that sanction doesn't mean "penalty", but you appear to be trying to argue that it ONLY means penalty. Which isn't the case; it's simply its most common usage at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 05:24 AM

but on the way the word is currently used. precisely. Words morph.

pre vent (aka prevent) from the Latin

prevent (dis-enable)

there is (used to be in the 60s) a Christian prayer that went: prevent us oh Lord

and the vicar had to explain it by emphasising it as pre vent, because the meaning was literally to go before, ie lead, ie enable and encourage. And if you "go before" you can stop things. Etymology is clear, morphing is understandable but it leads to (pre vents?) an antagonymous duality. And is, in the context of the OP, curious.

Now is designer a word that has any meaning worthy of usage? or does it mean expensive &/or cheap?

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jos
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 07:54 AM

"you appear to be trying to argue that it ONLY means penalty"

Not at all, but I thought you were arguing that it ONLY means approve, as in: ' "Sanction - this is simply "to approve" ' (28 Apr 18 - 06:47 AM).

Shall we leave it there - anyone who is interested can go back and read all our posts, so lets not bore everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 11:05 AM

Indeed, Jos! :)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 11:08 AM

And sorry, I've just realised, my bad, perhaps. I meant "approve" in the sense of "sign something off". In fairness to Myself, I did also say "Positive or negative is beside the point. It derives from the Latin "to ratify"." Play fair! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 02:07 PM

I just came across something new called 'malaphors'. Malformed metaphors. Seeing as we seem to have done with antagonyms I thought I may as well introduce them here.

We'll burn that bridge when we come to it
Is a bear Catholic?
Don't count all your chickens in one basket
It's like pulling teeth out of a stone

Over to you :-)

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 04:43 PM

We'll burn that bridge when we come to it - a little difficult to do it at any other time! I can hear a Goldwynism looming.

Which makes it sort of: plain sailing, but we are not out of the woods yet. Or am I sailing close to the wind-up?

Don't count all your chickens in one basket - Which would be crying fowl or putting all your Basques in one exit?

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Apr 18 - 08:00 PM

Fatal: from Oxford Living Dictionary, one meaning of it, (apart from the commoner deadly one) derived from Middle English is "destined by fate".

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Jos
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 06:03 AM

On malaphors -
Some years ago it was claimed that the police at Nottinghill Carnival had been "leaning over backwards to maintain a low profile". I love that image.
And a political example -
After the last general election, some public figure (can't remember which) was described as "a liberal with a small 'c' ".

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 02:12 PM

"I 'threw out' the idea of a peace summit today"

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: frogprince
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 05:16 PM

What this country needs is more men with real two-fisted guts on their shoulders.

A former relative-by-marriage was a green beret, and at least as obsessed with being macho as anyone I've ever met. I tried that line on him once, just for the hell of it, and he just nodded with obvious enthusiasm.

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 06:00 PM

My mother-in-law (RIP) was mistress of the malaphors and Malapropisms, though now struggling to remember many of them: should have written them down at the time.
She did plead with us, before we visited the United States, not to "visit any of those black grottoes".

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: ketchdana
Date: 30 Apr 18 - 06:11 PM


Time to pitch the tent.     ...over the cliff?     Set it up?

Subject: RE: BS: antagonyms - list here
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 May 18 - 03:11 AM

how about the satirical one about a politician at the hustings

"They took us to the cliff edge but this party has taken a giant leap forward"

sort of getting the wrong end of the barge pole.

How about "up sticks and follow a new root"?

or "it's raining cats and dogs, we are up the creak without a poodle"