BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...

Subject: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 05:40 PM

Here you go, liberals! A statistical assessment of each Major Evil committed by the Bush Resident.

Scorecard of Evil

Enjoy,


A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: mack/misophist
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 06:10 PM

And the point is? Or perhaps, don't preach to the choir.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 06:18 PM

I take it you aren't voting for him in the next election Amos!
He has certainly pulled some crap on us hasn't he. I am afraid our Pres. doesn't have much of a value system for people and the environment, a sad thing to say but so evident.
I heard some news today but I didn't catch the whole story,people in Cal. were fighting against the homeland security act. Do you know anything about this Amos? Taking it into the court system or something.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 06:31 PM

Misoph:

Quite -- I was simply offering the choir a tabulated set of epistles to intone from.

Rustic I haven't head about an appeal against the Patriot Act but I think it is a first-rate idea. If it gets to the Supremes, though, I don't hold out a lot of hope. I believe they have been paid for, and they always honor some of their debts.

A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM

I was wrong about what I heard it's not the Homeland security, it's the Patriot act. I just did a brief search and found Arcada, CA passed an ordinance to defend the bill of rights, with more cities following suit. I will add the quick search site I found on this. Another bad move from Bush the evil! Ha! click
Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: DougR
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 07:23 PM

Jessie Bernie? Ho hum.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 08:18 PM

I hope this is the right thread for what I am posting -- I think it is.
If you know author Kurt Vonnegut, you know that he has never pulled any punches in either his fiction or in his real life interviews. Mr. Vonnegut has just turned 80, and comments on the war in Iraq in a terrific interview at the following url:

Kurt Vonnegut Interview

It is entirely delicious!!

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 09:59 PM

One of my favorites, up there with Sam Clemens hisself.

An excerpt from the referenced discussion:

" I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened, though, is that it has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d'etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka "Christians," and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or "PPs." "

Regards,


A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Apr 03 - 10:10 PM

Wow! Didn't realize Vonnegut was 80......how time flies......I might be 80 someday, maybe.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 12:03 AM

Sorcha:

Don't put me on. You have a LONG way t' go before that even starts to sound sensible -- you're what, now --- 45? 40? 35?.

Darn spring chickens. Think they have to act older than they are just to look mature. Hmmmph!!! Hey -- on the Internet, Sorcha, no-one gets to card you, so you can stop the charade, okay?

;>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 01:05 AM

Rustic, thanks for the link! You, too, pdc!

I especially liked this: Anybody practicing the fine art of composing music, no matter how cynical or greedy or scared, still can't help serving all humanity. Music makes practically everybody fonder of life than he or she would be without it. Even military bands, although I am a pacifist, always cheer me up.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 01:18 AM

For some reason I was drawn to re-read The Ox-bow Incident, recently, after many, many years. In the afterword, I was struck with what the author, Walter Van Tilburg Clark, had to say and how applicable it is to our times (emphasis is mine):

"The book was written in 1937 and '38, when the whole world was getting increasingly worried about Hitler and the Nazis, and emotionally it stemmed from my part of this worrying. A number of the reviewers commented on the parallel when the book came out in 1940, saw it as something approaching an allegory of the unscrupulous and brutal Nazi methods, and as a warning against the dangers of temporizing and of hoping to oppose such a force with reason, argument, and the democratic approach. They did not see, however, or at least I don't remember that any of them mentioned it (and that did scare me), although it was certainly obvious, the whole substance and surface of the story, that it was a kind of American Naziism that I was talking about. I had the parallel in mind, all right, but what I was most afraid of was not the German Nazis, or even the Bund, but that ever-present element in any society which can always be led to act the same way, to use authoritarian methods to oppose authoritarian methods.

"What I wanted to say was It can happen here. It has happened here, in minor but sufficiently indicative ways, a great many times.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 01:58 AM

It is very apparent I need to get some facts before I open my mouth! I'll try this again. I've just read about Minneapolis working on a repeal to both, the Homeland Security act and the US Patriot act. They passed a resolution on April 4th, opposing some of these federal laws and working on revocation to sections in both (according to above link I posted earlier).I have a hard time even believing that these acts were even passed. What does Bush think he is doing? Why are we allowing this to happen? I could be subject to FBI surveillance just by questioning or opposing government policy or calling Bush...EVIL!
Rustic(trying to do my best to get foot out of mouth and get more informed and shut the hell up if I don't know what I'm talking about)

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 02:19 AM

Question is, why are the Democrats in the House and Senate allowing this to happen? Where is the outrage from that spineless bunch?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Peg
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 02:38 AM

I gotta admit michaelr has a point..exactly how is it that this monstrous moron has gotten away with all this?

it seems the evil occurs and then appears in the newspapers after it's already a slam-dunk, too late to prevent it...

is the media not hounding closely enough? do our legislators ans representatives not care about all these horrific new developments?

are we going to hell in a handbasket? it would seem that yes, we are.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 02:42 PM

More words of wisdom from another 80-year-old, who is just as outspoken as Vonnegut. I believe The Nation is a respected periodical. The sidebar article "Questions for President Bush" is also good reading. Hope my clicky works!

McGovern

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 23 Apr 03 - 03:15 PM

I just keep finding things to post! You want a deed which, if not actually evil, is cynical beyond belief? The Republicans are not only going to hold their next convention in New York City, site of the terrorist activities against the US, they have actually changed the traditional date of the convention, pushing it back into -- ready? -- September, so they can hold it on, or as close as possible to, 9/11.

This from the administration that didn't want to give NYC any money for restoration, and was overruled by Congress.

Can't you just hear the drumbeats and the rhetoric now, see the hands over hearts, the utter sincerity, the emotional/patriotic appeal to "the citizens of this great country."

This act is so blatant -- Will it fool anyone? You bet it will -- Joe Sixpack will watch it on tv (he doesn't read), then vote for them.

It's really time to rally opposition -- the Republicans are already putting things into play for 2004: lying, manipulating, bribing, disenfranchising, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:09 PM

Boy, someone better respond, or this will be a pdc thread!

Has anyone seen this website?

Impeach Bush

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: TIA
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:12 PM

Yup, I'm all signed up, but not a snowball's chance in hell.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: TIA
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:16 PM

Bushes cynical, manipulative exploitation of 911 (remember "lucky me I hit the trifecta!") is nearly enough to convince me that The Hated Guest is correct and he orchestrated the whole thing... but that would let the real perpetrators off the hook. Keep feedin' the links pdc, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:17 PM

Meatheaded morons, the lot o' them. Throw the bounders out!

A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:51 PM

Well, if you want more links (I have a trunkful in my attic) here is a particularly interesting one. Don't let the first paragraph put you off -- this is a serious look at some possibilities.

Taking Back America

Mind you, it would work better if Democrats -- or at least those people who are against this administration -- weren't so diverse.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 03:29 PM

Good people obviously have a higher risk of diverticulosis....


A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM

I don't know about them but they give me a pain in the gut.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:42 PM

Hi:

HERE is a final link on this thread about evil. It might actually chill your bones. Be aware that the facts here were probably carefully selected -- nonetheless, it makes for interesting reading.

When Democracy Failed: The Warnings of History

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:13 PM

Wow, pdc! Keep 'em comin'!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:45 PM

pdc, we must frequent the same sites, that's one I'd posted in one of the iraq threads a few months ago...still very good reading...important

thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Mudlark
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM

A pain in the gut...or a bit lower down...indeed. Had to take the list in several hits...was already gagging by March 5. Thanks for all links everybody...and I agree w/Michael...where the hell are the democrats...have we finally tipped the scales and become a one party country?

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:33 PM

IThe Daily Telegraph - UK
4-22-3

A secret Donald Rumsfeld memorandum calling for regime change in North Korea was leaked yesterday, opening a fresh foreign policy split in the Bush administration.
 
The classified discussion paper, circulated by the defence secretary, appears to cut directly across State Department plans to disarm Kim Jong-il, the North's dictator, through threats leavened by promises that his regime is not a target for overthrow.
 
The paper does not call for military action against North Korea, but wants the United States to team up with China in pushing for the collapse of Kim Jong-il's bankrupt but belligerent regime, the New York Times reported.

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:12 PM

Mudlark, read Thom Hartmann's peice about Progressives taking back the Dem. party; it gives one some hope, imo.

Amos, unbelievable...the State dept. and Pentagon are really at it tooth and nail, aren't they? I wonder if shurb is sucking his thumb wondering what happened to being a uniter not a divider? Fucking wanker!

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: TIA
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:21 PM

Here's a chiller (I bet someone already posted this... if so, sorry)

"Why, of course people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?

"Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Herman Goering
Nuremberg, 1946

for more, click here

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:28 PM

These guys really aren't counting the costs, are they -- it is kind of one of those "fun fun fun until Daddy takes the White House away" things, isn't it!!

This is the most horrific foreign policy we have had since the Bay of Pigs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Mudlark
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:50 PM

Thanks, Kat, for the straw of hope...I'm willing to grasp at anything. And Amos...your ability to make me smile in the midst of impotent rage is disarming!

Subject: RE: BS: On the Scale of Good and Evil...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 11:23 PM

Gee, maybe I should try it on Saddam Hussein -- oh, too late. Donald Rumsfeld?

A