BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens

Subject: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: kendall
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:52 PM

Born February 7th, 1812 London. Very popular in his day, not so much now exept among us fans.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:05 PM

Thanks for reminding us, Kendall!

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Michael from Manitoba
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM

His son was an officer in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and served in the 1885 Métis rebellion in what is now Saskatchewan. Unfortunately, Dickens Jr's role was not that glorious.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:23 PM

"not so much now" I think he's still quite possibly the novelist who'd be most likely to have his named recognised in a quiz.

And when it comes to TV versions he can't really be beaten - for example last year's Bleak House.

And when was the last time anyone got through Christmas without coming up against Scrooge and company?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM

Happy Birthday Charlie!

We are ever so 'umble.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:43 PM

I know one of his great (?great) grandsons. Apparently there are a lot of them.

This one is gorgeous and is taking me out to dinner next weekend!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 05:51 PM

So you have Great Expectations then LTS :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:08 PM

Or he has...

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 06:23 PM

He is a true and proper gentleman. I, being polite (and broke) will let him pay.

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:01 PM

As long as you remember: cost of the meal £19.95, result=happiness; cost of the meal £20.05, result=misery, assuming you only have a £20 note.

(Or something like that - to paraphrase Mr Micawber)

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 07:39 PM

Not if he's paying - she'd just have to divvy up the odd 5 pence.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: kendall
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM

His father was thrown into debtor's prison. I never could understand the concept of debtor's prison. How the hell can he pay his bills when he's locked up?

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 08:13 PM

"I never could understand the concept of debtor's prison"

It was meant to impress upon the recalcitrant, not yet imprisoned debtors that it would be in their best interest to pay up their debts ASAP - or else! But of course you knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: kendall
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:14 PM

It couldn't have worked very well, considering how many ended up there.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:27 PM

It worked to some extent as far as putting the fear of debt into at least some of the peasantry, like my family for instance. I was brought up in a family whose financial credo was "if you can't afford to pay for it, don't buy it" and this has served me very well as I have always managed to avoid debt by living within my means.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 09:34 PM

I have always admired Chuck. I hope that his birthday was as happy as Fagin collecting a good day's take.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:04 AM

Ooerr LTS, I hope you're not planning to nick his handkerchief.

Go for his wallet instead, much more profitable my dear.

[reverb]Heh heh heh![/reverb]

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: kendall
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 08:13 AM

Bobad, I was brought up the same way and I've never been in debt to the point where I couldn't catch up. Never a candidate for debtors prison.
I have a mortgage that would make Atlas stagger, but I can handle it.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:23 AM

Kendall, another function of the debtors' prisons was as a hostage situation, with ransom demanded of friends and/or families.

Most if not all of the debtors' prisons were privately run, by contractors, who made a pretty good living by (over)charging their "guests" for rent and food.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM

Most if not all of the debtors' prisons were privately run, by contractors, who made a pretty good living by (over)charging their "guests" for rent and food.

So the debtors got even deeper into debt while they were in jail :-)

But that's a good idea, charging prisoners for their keep. I think they should do that today. And charge them also for any damage or expense incurred in the course of their crimes.

If criminals knew in advance that they would have to pay back every penny they have cost the taxpayer and their victims, for police time, cost of the operation to track them down/arrest them, cost of any damage caused, value of stolen property, etc., maybe that would deter some of them from committing crimes in the first place.

Hit 'em in the pocket - that's more effective than anything else these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 10:49 AM

It's a long time since imprisonment for debt, except in a few unusual cases, was abolished - back in the 1870s in the UK. So I doubt if that was a significant element in the culture of "if you can't afford to pay for it, don't buy it" which I grew up in myself, and still adhere to.

More likely it was because we grew up in a cash economy, not one based on anonymous credit. In a cash economy it is a lot harder to run up debt, and the hardship when you do is a lot more immediate. If it's a shilling in the slot electric meter, when it runs out, the light goes out.
..................................
Mr Micawber is said to have been very much based on Charles Dickens' father. I've sometimes wondered if anyone has ever written an account of Mr Micawber's adventures in Australia, where Dickens reports he evidently prospered and became a magistrate in Melbourne. (Where he apparently has a pub called after him.)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:31 PM

This kindly old lady used to give me some copies of his work when I was a kid - there was a facsimile of his signature on the cover of each book.

I used to wonder who Snarlsboro Wickland was. It was just the way he wrote his signature.

I was a dumb kid, what did I know.........

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 03:54 PM

But that really is a great name for an author. Or a detective.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 07:50 PM

Ah, the only thing I'd steal from him is a kiss. He's VERY handsome.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:00 AM

Interesting subject, Charles Dickens & the USA.

He travelled to the USA, and while there, made a little money from personal readings of his written works.

And why, well may you ask, did he travel there at all?

Well, you see, those naughty Yanks just would not respect copyright on his works.... ironic really when you consider which country today is making the most fuss about copyright pirates... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Bagpuss
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 06:20 AM

My problem is that I think he writes great stories - I have enjoyed many adaptations of his work; but I really don't enjoy his writing. I have never been able to get through one of his stories. Usually once I have started a book, I finish it within a few days but with a couple of Dicken's books I have tried, I was still trying to read over a month later and finally gave up.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 07:26 AM

It was a different world. they had sod all to do, so reading a book with a million pages in was a bit of light relief from dying with diseases and watching public hangings.

I read Great Expectations about ten years ago. I was doing a a lot of travelling at the time. At his best, he's really excellent -simultaneously facetious and subtle like Mozart.

Not always at his best though.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 09:23 AM

Bagpuss, I confess I've found a few of Dickens' works heavy going, too. I'm not sure why, because I've read a lot of "the classics" including a lot of other authors from the same period, and mostly I can get through the books without too much difficulty (there have been a few exceptions though).

I used to struggle through books because I didn't like to give in, and in a few cases it has paid off - books that took me a while to 'get into' turned out to be some of the best I'd ever read.

But I'm afraid these days, I'm more likely to give up on a book and go onto another one, mainly because I figure what's left of my life is too short to waste reading stuff I have to struggle through. When I was in my 20s, a friend of mine and I worked out we'd never be able to read everything we want to, even if we spent the rest of our lives reading. And now I'm older, I'm even more conscious of the need to be selective. That's not to say I don't spend some of my time reading rubbish though (e.g. newspapers).

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 12:17 PM

A good way to read a book that requires a little bit of stamina, like most of Dickens, is to read alongside books that are easy going, but with a strong narrative pull so you read a chapter of Dickens, and then a chapter of the other, and so forth.

After a while you are likely to find Dickens catches fire and grabs you, and you start racing through the easy going stuff to get back to him. Or putting it on side and getting on with Dickens to find out what happens next, and what's the big puzzle he's hinting about, and what is going to become of the characters.

It's worth trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 07 - 01:32 PM

I suppose anything's worth a try in all this snow, but you know the Victorians didn't have cable or sky and this gave them more incentive.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:32 AM

It should not be forgotten that some of his work was written in fixed size chunks on rather tight deadlines for regular publication in newspapers, periodicals, etc - to pay his bills. Much of his stuff was thus not written as a unified whole as such before it was released, and little 'blue penciling' took place by an editoral process to create a tight fast moving 'movie-like' gripping ('modern') narrative. Movies had not been invented at all yet either...

Now try and read "War and Peace" you complainers...

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 12:39 AM

... which took years to write and WAS subjected to an intensive editing process.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 09:14 AM

Virtually all Dickens work was "written in fixed size chunks on rather tight deadlines for regular publication in newspapers, periodicals".

It's not a bad way of writing either, as demonstrated in modern times by authors such as Armistead Maupin and Alexander McCall Smith.

I think "tight fast moving 'movie-like' gripping ('modern') narrative" is often a disastrous recipe for novels. As indeed it can be for movies.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Charles Dickens
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 11:10 AM

"tight fast moving 'movie-like' gripping ('modern') narrative" is often a disastrous recipe for novels.

and egg custard.........grip the eggs too tight and you're in trouble.