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Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey)
In Mudcat MIDIs:
The Gaol of Clonmel
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Subject: Lyr Add: CLÛN MALLA^^ From: AlistairUK Date: 13 Apr 99 - 02:36 PM Couldn't find it in the DT.
CLÛN MALLA Repeat First Verse. |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Cluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 13 Apr 99 - 06:01 PM Cluain Meala, field of honey. English lyrics by Sigerson? Liam Clancy did a nice recording of it. I hope to get round to adding the Irish language lyrics later. The English poetic translation is close enough, except rather than being milder than a child (verse 2) the Irish mentions the "White Boys" who took revenge on landlords - after all, why is the hurler being hung? |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: AlistairUK Date: 13 Apr 99 - 06:22 PM Thank you Philippa, for the correction on the name but also for why the song. I have been singing it for years because of the poetry and the tune and it still seems as fresh to me now as the day when I learnt it, and I still get the same emotions too. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: PRÍOSÚN CHLUAIN MEALA From: Date: 14 Apr 99 - 05:53 AM Cluain Meala = Clonmel( as in Co. Tipperary) Can any Mudcatter say for sure who composed the English version? I think it's published in Kathleen Hoagland's "1000 Years of Irish Poetry". PRÍOSÚN CHLUAIN MEALA Ó, bliain is lá amárach Sea d'fhágas an baile A' dul go hArd Pádraig, 'Cur lásaí le m' hata. Bhí Buachaillí Bána ann Is rás acu ar Eallaibh, Is mé go dubhach uaigneach I bpríosún Chluain Meala Tá mo shrian is mo dhiallait Ar iasacht le fada. Mo chamán ar fiaradh Faoi iarthar mo leapa, Mo liatróid dá bualadh Ag buachaillí an ghleanna - Is go mbuailfinn poc báire Chomh hard leis na fearaibh! A Chiarraigh bígí ' guí liom, Is bog binn liom bhur nglórtha, Is beag a shíleas-sa choíche Ná béarfainnse beo oraibh: Go mbeidh ár dtrí cinn-ne Ar trí spící mar sheó acu, Faoi schneachta na hoíche, Is gach síon eile á ngeobhaidh chugainn! |
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Subject: misplaced aiches From: Philippa Date: 14 Apr 99 - 07:34 AM corrections to the lyrics above (typos): verse 2 "liathróid" (ball) verse 3 "Faoi shneachta" (under snow) The English is not a literal translation, but it IS the same song |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Cluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 14 Apr 99 - 01:54 PM I've just had a look at Donal O'Sullivan. "Songs of the Irish", Dublin: Brown and Nolan, 1960. Príosún Chluain Meala is included, with musical notation, Irish Gaelic words, literal translation, poetic translation - which is attributed to J.J. Callanan and background notes. From the evidence of the song, it is the story of a lad named O'Donnell, thought to be one of the Whiteboys, of Iveragh Co Kerry hung at Clonmel Gaol. |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: AlistairUK Date: 14 Apr 99 - 02:10 PM This is grand Philippa...all I need to know now is ...who were the whiteboys exactly? |
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Subject: Tune Add: THE GAOL OF CLONMEL From: alison Date: 15 Apr 99 - 06:14 AM Hi, thanks to a GIF from Philippa...... here's the tune (it said andantino.. so I've guessed the tempo.. hope its about right...)
MIDI file: GAOLOF~1.MID Timebase: 480 Name: THE GAOL OF CLONMEL This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
Slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: Annraoi Date: 11 May 99 - 11:59 AM Refresh this thread |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: Annraoi Date: 11 May 99 - 02:40 PM Haigh, a Philippa. Creidim go raibh tú ag caint le cairde de mo chuid ag Sabhail Mór Ostaig ar na mallaibh. Nach ar achan duine abhí an t-iontas !! Ach, mar ba ghnách le mao mháthair a rá faoim, "Cluinfear d'ainm i n-áiteacha nach leagfaidh tú do chos ionntu." Whiteboys or "Buachaillí Bána were gangs of vigilantes operating in the Irish countryside during the C18. Their favourite punishment for those who fell foul of them was to "card" them i.e. to rip their naked backs with wool cards. these were wooden implements used to tease out the fibres of wool to prepare it for spinning. The cards were flat "bats" of wood studded with scores of sharply pointed steel needles. One can imagine the agony produced by "carding" someone. Annraoi |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYRCluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 12 May 99 - 02:26 PM The hero of the song doesn't actually say he was a Whiteboy, only that they were present. On the other hand, he doesn't declare his innocence. When you the word "buachaill bán" or "buachaillín bán" in other songs, you can't assume a reference to a rural guerilla. The term might just mean a fair (handsome) lad or refer to Bonnie Prince Charlie. I wonder if the Whiteboys chose their name to indicate support for the Jacobites?? It's not implausible. There was certainly a sectarian element in the fighting; most of these societies had Catholic membership, but the Protestant Orange Order derived from "The Peep o' Day" boys. Jim Smyth wrote that the Whiteboys got their name for the white linen shirts they wore. And I think I read somehere that they disguised their faces with flour or covered them with sheets or something like that? Similar secret societies went under other names such as the Ribbonmen and the Hearts of Oak. and the Hearts of Steel. The most significant gains for tenants rights (including acts which enabled them to become small proprietors) were won in the second half of the 19th century (i.e., after the famine years). I think it fair to say that the rights were won by the civil disobedience campaigh of the Land League, though historians might argue about the relative importance of rent nonpayment and boycotts (Capt. Boycott was a landlord), of parliamentary activity (Charles Stuart Parnell), and of sporadic acts of violence. Land League leader Michael Davitt had previously been involved in the Fenians, a physical force movement, and decided a new approach was needed. There are two articles from an Irish nationalist perspective, about the famine, with some reference to the Land League at http://inac.org/history/hunger.html |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Cluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 12 May 99 - 02:50 PM I did some surfing. "Carders" are referred to as a specific group, known for using that punishment described by Annraoi, in the discussion of agrarian societies at the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) site early policing in Ireland The Great Famine by Karis Wright is introduced with history of pre-famine agrarian conflict. The most information can be found at AGRARIAN REBELS, SECRET SOCIETIES AND DEFENDERS, 1761-91 from the book, "The Men of No Property, Irish Radicals and Popular Politics in the Late Eighteenth Century", by Jim Smyth, 1992. other sites include: Engels' correspondence fromIreland Daniel O'Connell short history of Ireland in the 19th century Cahir O'Doherty's site |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Cluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:46 AM There is also a literal translation published in Thomas Kinsella and Seán Ó Tuama , ed. "An DuanaireAn Duanaire, 1600-1900: Songs of the Dispossessed" Dolmen Press/Bord na Gaeilge, Dublin 1981 |
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Subject: Príosún Chluain Meala From: Philippa Date: 26 Nov 99 - 02:42 PM Callanan did a better translation job on Príosún Chluain Meala. There is another version of the song published in Maighréad Ní Annagáin and Séamus de Chlanndiolúin, "Londubh an Chairn" and An Roinn Oideachais (Dept of Education) "Cuisle an Cheoil" (Dublin, 1976) with the following verse about being the gentlest lad in the village: O do bhí mé im' bhuachaill chomh stuama's 'bhí sa bhaile, Dhéanfainn súgradh nó gáire nó pléaráca ar faiche, Do bhualifinn poc báire chomh hard leis na fearaibh, Is a dhaoine na n-árann, nach cás libh mo mhealladh This version makes no mention of the Buachaillí Bána. Instead it suggests that the singer had enlisted in the British army and deserted. The above verse is the last of three.The first verse goes: Ar maidin Lae 'le Pádraig, is mé ag fágail an bhaile, Is mé ag dul go hArd Pádraig 'cur lásaí lem hata, Bhí Briainín 'us Máirín á shíorá liomsa casadh, Agus mé go socair sásta ' bhfochair sáirsint ag ól leanna. The second verse is very similar to the version published in O Baoill, in O'Sullivan and in Abair Amhrán which I contributed to this thread earlier: Tá mo shrian is mo dhiallait ar iasacht as baile, Is mo chapall ag fiach aige buachaillí an airm, Tá mo chamán ag fiaradh is ag liathadh faoi mo leaba, Agus mé go dubhach diachrach i bpríosún Chluain Meala. |
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Subject: The Convict of Clonmel From: Philippa Date: 08 Dec 99 - 01:50 PM - in case someone does a lyrics search under the title 'The Convict of Clonmel' which is also used for the English language version of Príosún Chluain Meala |
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Subject: RE: J J Callanan From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 24 Jun 02 - 06:26 AM JJ Callanan also translated The Outlaw of Loch Lene. Kathleen Hoagland's "1000 Years of Irish Poetry" includes five poetic translations by Callanan and this biographical information: ""Callanan, James Joseph (Jeremiah) - was born in Cork, May 1795; died in Lisbon, Portugal, September 19, 1829. His parents wished him to become a priest and he entered Maynooth at the age of 17; but after two years left and entered Trinity College, Dublin, to study medicine. At Trinity he won two prizes for poetry. Leaving Trinity, he enlisted an after buying a release, gained a scant livelihood by teaching. Later, Callanan wandered through Ireland, gathering its legends and poetry. He died of tuberculosis in Portugal where he had gone as a tutor. His poetry was published in Cork in 1861. He was the first to give adequate versions of Irish Gaelic poems, and also among the first to introduce a Gaelic refrain into English poetry." I find the last comment about Gaelic refrains in English poetry and would be interested in seeing some documentation; if anybody has any information on the topic, maybe they could start an appropriate discussion thread. |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:15 AM Slight drift, but can anyone explain how the name of "tories" came to be associated with the British Conservative Party? I'm sure most members of that party would be very upset to find out who the name originally referred to! |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: greg stephens Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:33 AM I would gladly answer the question in your first sentence, except the second sentence implies you already know the answer. |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar Date: 25 Jun 02 - 07:35 AM Only in general terms. What was the particular parliamentary context that led the true-blue Conservatives to be assimilated to the whiteboys? |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 27 Jun 02 - 05:56 AM Philippa Mention of Callanan reminds me. I recently came across a book called "History of verse translation from Irish 17??-189?" (not sure of the dates but it basically covers 19C.) by a man called Welch, around 1988. It started life as a Ph.D. thesis - so its not light reading. But it seems to have a lot of info on the various published collections of translations of poetry/song and good critical analysis. Seems to be still available e.g. at Kenny's Bookshop of Galway, who have a website. Regards |
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Subject: RE: ADD LYR: Clûn Malla From: Fiolar Date: 27 Jun 02 - 10:31 AM Regarding "Tories": The following is an extract from "The Oxford Companion to Irish History." "The word 'tory' from the Irish 'toraidhe'(raider) has been traced back to 1646.....The original tories of the Restoration period were perceived as dispossessed Catholics waging a war of revenge against the new social order created by the land confiscations of the 1640 and 1650s. Yet it remains unclear how far all toryism, even in the Restoration period, was of this character, and how far some at least of what was so described should be seen as representing banditry of the kind found in remote and underpoliced regions throughout early modern Europe. The use of 'Tory' in English politics goes back to the exclusion crisis of 1679-81. The Whigs who sought to exclude the future James II, as a Catholic, from the throne, applied the term derisively to James' supporters. After the revolution of 1688 'Tory' re-emerged as the generally accepted name for one of the two sides in an increasingly bitter party conflict." As a kid growing up in Ireland, pine cones were called "tory tops." Don't know where the term arose and can only surmise that it meant the dried heads of executed individuals in early times and over the years the meaning was lost. Canon O'Leary in his autobiography "Mo Sgeal Fein" describes what he thought were three black balls over Macroom castle. Later he learned that they were three skulls on spikes. He was born in 1839 and if he was in his teens when he saw them, the habit must have continued well into the 19th century. Regarding "Whiteboys", and again referring to the Oxford Companion, it states that there were two outbreaks of agrarian protest. One began in Co. Tipperary in 1761 and spread to counties Limerick, Waterford, Cork and Kilkenny and continued until 1765. A second wave in 1769 to 1775 affected Kilkenny, Tipperary, Queen's County (Laois),Carlow and Wexford. The term arose from the practise of wearing white shirts over everyday clothing.
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Subject: LYR ADD: Príosún Chluain Meala From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 10 Nov 02 - 02:51 PM Príosún Chluain Meala Although this song as we are most familiar with it is from the mid-18th century, that version appears to be a reworking of a song composed about a century earlier. Here is a version published in Tomás Ó Concheanainn, "Nua-dhuanaire III". Dublin, 1981. In this version, the narrator is in prison for deserting the army. The last few verses are similar to the newer song. I don't know whether this version has been sung to the same tune that we now use for Príosún Chluain Meala/The Gaol of Clonmel. Ó Concheanainn doesn't date this version, only stating that the song now available is a fragmented and polluted version. Sources given are the periodicals "Gaodhal", May, 1890 and "Fáinne an Lae", 12 June 1926. ú PRÍOSÚN CHLUAIN MEALA D'imíos óm mhuintir le hard-intinn gan chiall, Liostáil mé san arm 's níor fhanas ach bliain, D'ealaíos i ganfhios, 's ar an mbaile bhí mo thriall. 'S gur i bpriosún Chluain Meala tá mo leaba le bliain. Istoíche Dé hAoine is mé gabháilt síos 'gesna barracks Casadh light-horse saighdiúirí orm ; 's iad líonta dá gcuid arm, Gheit mé is bhiog mé is níor fhan brí ionam ná tapa Agus rith mé naoi míle gan bhríste ná hata. Cuireadh ar athchúirt mé ó Phort Láirge go Cluain Meala, Ní raibh duine gheobhadh páirt liom ná cairde im aice, Dúirt Bagwell ag siúl na sraide go raibh an chnáib dom á smearadh, Is má chuirid chun báis mé na grása go bhfaighe m'anam. Bíonn rinnce ar chrosbhóithre gach Domhnach 'ge baile Bíonn cluiche ar bhánta, poc báire is dibheairsean, Bíonn cailíní óga ann, mná pósta is a bhfearaibh, 'Gus Mallaí dubh deorach 's a hóigfhear faoi ghlasaibh. Tá fhios ag Dia dílis 's ag Rí geal na bhFlaitheas Go rabhas ar an mbuachaill b'fhearr tuairisc 'ge baile, Ar shúgradh is ar gháire nó iomáint ar an bhfaiche Is go mbuailfinn poc báire chomh hard leis an ngealaigh. Tá mo shrian is mo dhiallait ar iasacht le fada, Is mo chamán ag fiaradh is ag liathadh fén leaba, Tá mo liathróid á bhualadh 'ge buachaillí an bhaile, Is mar bharr ar gach scéal táinse daortha i gCluain Meala. The 19th c. version with trans. from Kinsella "An Duanaire" can be seen a www.irishpage.com/poems/jail.htm Oddly the background music is Cill Cais, not Cluan Meala |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Príosúin Chluain Meala From: GUEST,PHilippa Date: 20 Nov 02 - 08:12 AM see the verses from Lonndubh an Chairn and Cuisle an Cheoil: which I posted 26 Nov.99. Like the one version I added to the thread just recently, this version is about someone imprisoned for deserting the army, rather than for being a Whiteboy. summary/translation of notes in Cuisle an Cheoil: "One story is that the prisoner who narrates the song was visiting Ard Pádraig (County Limerick?) where he was enticed to enlist in the English army. After a year he got fed up with army life and deserted. He was arrested and sentenced to death. That is the story associated with these verses. "There are othr verses, however, (see songs of the Irish, Donal O'Sullivan), in which we understand that the prisoner was a member of the White Boys by the name of O'Donnell from Uíbh Ráthach in County Cork" Other sources given are Ó Caoimh, "Fáinne an Lae", 12 June 1926; Ó Foghludha, Cois na Ruachtaighe; Ó Síothcháin, Seanchas Chléire --yes, I know some of the info. repeats what has been said earlier --Can anyone correct the spelling of the thread title and of the associated DigiTrad entries? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 31 Dec 04 - 05:34 PM I have read the majority of this Thread and have learnt a lot but can any one tell me what the following line means please. At my bedfoot decaying my hurley is lying Denn |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Brían Date: 01 Jan 05 - 02:32 PM A hurley is a stick made of ash used for knocking a ball about. Some may remember the character Dónal from the B,B.C. series Ballykissangel using one to knock a golf ball on the green instead of a driver. I believe the word originates from the Irish word tuirling, to descend, alight. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Dennis the Elder Date: 01 Jan 05 - 03:01 PM Cheers Brian Denn |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Brían Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:28 PM You are welcome. Brían |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: GUEST,caoimhinodonnchu@eircom.net Date: 29 Mar 06 - 05:04 PM Is aoibhinn an suíomh seo; is aoibhinn an t-amhrán 'Priosún Cluan Meala'. Mór-chuid eolas ar cheann des na h-amhrán Gaelach is fearr atá againn. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: MartinRyan Date: 29 Mar 06 - 06:14 PM Fáilte romhat, a Chaoimhín! Ná bí cúthalalach - tá neart eolais agus suime thart timpeall anseo. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Gaol of Clonmel (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Felipa Date: 26 Apr 22 - 08:38 AM A quick internet search yields no information about the O'Donnell of Iveragh, Co Kerry, Ireland; who may be the subject of this song. But the Whiteboy connection would also be relevant to the case of Edmund Sheehy, James Buxton and Buck Farrell; held in Clonmel Gaol, Co Tipperary and executed in Clogheen 3 May 1775. The three men were convicted of the murder of John Bridge and of aiding and assisting the Whiteboys. https://www.executedtoday.com/2019/05/03/1766-edmund-sheehy-james-buxton-and-buck-farrell-whiteboys/ "A number of versions have survived of Buxton's last speech and dying words, in which he attempted to justify Whiteboy activities. According to one version, he declared on mounting the gallows that the ‘Levellers’ (Whiteboys) had tried to put a stop to the oppressive and arbitrary valuation of the tithe jobbers and had agreed to deal for tithes with none but the immediate proprietors. He denied that he had attended any Whiteboy meetings or taken any part in their activities, rejecting the testimonies of his accusers and disavowing knowledge of the death of John Bridge. He discounted rumours of a rebellion and invasion in the kingdom, though he alleged that he had been promised a pardon by the Revs Hewson and Broderick if he would testify to the contrary." Éamonn Ó Ciardha https://www.dib.ie/biography/buxton-james-a1315 Sources for Dictionary of Irish Biography article: A. Griffiths, Miscellaneous tracts (1788), 253–4; J. Redington (ed.), Calendar of the home office papers, 1760–1765 (1878), 27; J. Collins, ‘Gleanings from old Cork newspapers’, Cork Hist. Soc. Jn., lxxii (1967), 73–4; James S. Donnelly, ‘The Whiteboy movement, 1761–5’, IHS, xxi (1978–9), 20–54 Publishing information DOI: https://doi.org/10.3318/dib.001315.v1 Originally published October 2009 as part of the Dictionary of Irish Biography This content is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution Non Commercial 4.0 International license. |
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Subject: RE: The Convict of Clonmel, Príosún Chluain Meala From: Felipa Date: 26 Apr 22 - 09:10 AM some recordings English language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQp4ugV7rtg Liam Clancy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUMDcoU7FbE Luke Kelly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHh9evBjy4 Stiofán Ó Treabhair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iFmaIY1XSwKevin Kennedy (unaccompanied) Irish language (to a somewhat different tune): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs3icfeDrFE Seán Ó Sé https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VGCiqQ0ZM0 Bernie Pháid |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Felipa Date: 26 Apr 22 - 04:52 PM Next Sunday the Pattern At home will be keeping What does "the Pattern" refer to? the corresponding verses in Irish mention dancing at the crossroads, and games on the green, a festive occasion |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: beachcomber Date: 26 Apr 22 - 06:50 PM The word "Pattern" is a corruption of "Padrún". It refers to the celebrations carried on in an area in honour of the "Patron Saint" of that area. The people, who spoke Irish everywhere in this island before the Norman invasion, inserted their own Gaelic words into conversations in English, as they learned to speak that language. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: GUEST,Tom Patterson Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:26 AM The late Aiden Forde who was a very fine Birmingham based singer and musician used to sing this song really well. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Clun Malla (Cluain Meala, field of honey) From: Felipa Date: 30 Apr 22 - 04:14 PM There is another verse which is sometimes sung at the end: Go hUíbh Ráthach má théann tú beir scéal go dtí mo mhuintir go bhfuilim daor ar an bhfód seo is nach bhfuil beo agam ach go hAoine. Bailigh gléas tórraimh agus cónrá breá im thimpeall. Sin críoch le Ó Dónaill is go deo bí ag guí orm/liom. (If you go to Ivereagh, bring the news to my parents, that I'm condemned on this sod and I will not survive past Friday. Gather the things for my wake and a fine coffin around me That's the end of O'Donnell, and beforever praying for me/with him |
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