BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.

Subject: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 06:51 PM

They kicked an old bloke out for shouting "rubbish".
Jack Straw [he;s a goverment bloke], did a speech-he said="
"We made a war with Iraq, and it serves them right etc",
then an old bloke in the crowd shouted rubbih, and then some big blokes chucked him out.
waht you think about this?

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 06:56 PM

Fook 'im.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 06:58 PM

Rubbish is a serious threat, and shouting "Rubbish" could cause a general panic. It should certainly be outlawed, or at least replaced by a more politically-correct cry of "Recycle!!!"

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:04 PM

oh.
Anyway, someone called the police, and they held him under anti-terrorist laws, but he wasn;t a terrorist, he was just an old bloke shouting rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:07 PM

Well, 'e's no plcae shoutin' rubbish now, does 'e? Not unless it was rubbish, in which case you've a point.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:15 PM

It was all just a huge misunderstanding. The old gentleman wasn't saying that Jack Straw's statement was rubbish. He had merely dozed off and was a bit disoriented upon awakening. Thinking he was at his home, he called his cat, whose name happens to be "Rubbish". It was unfortunate, but it could have been worse. He could have called one of his other two cats. Their names are "Fuckface" and "Shit-for-Brains".

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:18 PM

He actually shouted 'nonsense' which is MUCH more offensive because as we all know, rubbish is good.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Peace
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:39 PM

Too true. Well, in a manner of speaking. Good rubbish is good.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: curmudgeon
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 07:58 PM

Here's the rest of the story

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 05 - 08:12 PM

Apparently those great lumbering heavies who dragged him from his seat, and manhandled the younger man who had the nerve to object to what they were doing, were volunteers. That seems to be regarded as a point in their favour by the party hacks.

Of course there's a long tradition of having volunteer thugs take care of dealing with troublemakers. There are always people who like doing that kind of thing for the love of it. Hitler had his Brownshirts, Mosley had his Blackshirts (while Wodehouse's Sir Rodney Spode had his Black Shorts). And remember how Woody Guthrie sang about the all-American "Vigilante Man".

One thing - you can guarantee on the wake of this that anyone shouting "rubbish" at the Tory Party conference next week will get kid glove treatment now.

To see some a BBC news report on this and see what it's all about. click on this, and then on the strap line "Watch BBC news on video". (But that news link is only temporary, because it changes to show the current news.)

It's good that the Labour Party have repeatedly apologised for this,   but, as with the rather more serious business of the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes by the police, apologies aren't good enough. Things like that can only happen because people in charge of organising things have failed to carry out their responsibilities. Why didn't the person chairing the meeting tell the thugs to cut it out at the time, for example?

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: The Walrus
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 12:25 PM

Tony Bliar has apologised, but tried to wriggle out by making some sort of excuse about not being in the Hall at the time - This obviously makes him totally innocent of any responsibility (so much for being party leader)
In the same way, Al Capone was never in that garage during the St Valentine's Day Massacre, and I doubt that Adolf Hitler ever visited Treblinka oe Auchwitz, so by the same token....

W

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM

RUBBISH !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 01:59 PM

Does that mean I will now be set upon by muscular JoeClones wearing reflective jackets ?

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: gnu
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 02:50 PM

Bad riddance to good rubbish!

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 05:01 PM

It is unfortunate that this is what partisan politics has come to. The group with the most and best thugs sets the agenda. It's not that different in the United States (remember the man who shouted a curse at Bill Clinton and was wrestled to the ground and arrested by half a dozen Secret Service "hired heavies"?). The main reason that the elderly gentleman's comment and subsequent ejection happened at all is because the Labour Party hasn't quite gotten to the point of screening out dissenters before the event (as both political parties do here). It is a sad state of affairs that we can no longer accept opposing views.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 05:15 PM

McGrath & Walrus. You should be deeply ashamed to hijack ANY and EVERY thread to equate Mr. Blair with Hitler and it's YOU who should apologize for trivializing the horrors of Nazism and Auswitz just to piss against the New Labour tent.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 05:44 PM

I somehow missed a couple of days of news and am trying to catch up... Am I missing something or is it just as straight as some 82 year old being pounced on by what sounds to me like nightclub bouncers for shouting "rubbish" or "nonsense" during the labour party conference?

My reaction is one of horror and at the moment. I'm finding it difficult to imagine that any action at all needed to be taken.
One only has to watch some parliamentary debates to realise just how robust speakers like Jack Straw have to be in thier day to day job. It's not like they have never come accross a heckler. It seems somewhat incredible to believe they could have lost thier composure to the tune of standing by and watching this happen.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 06:07 PM

Just when you think that things can't get any worse - they do. Presumably, they won't apologise next time ... and the time after that they'll send the heckler to a camp.

Actually, it's the apology that really gets to me ... hypocritical, f...ing tossers!!!

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 06:36 PM

I dislike these people less when they are argueing amongst themselves as a party, rather than as the Goverment. They do less harm then.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 07:45 PM

Just a point here, at least one of the "heavies" works as a freelance doorman (bouncer) and part time as a car clamper, so much for "voulenteers". Does anyone think the party bosses were unaware of the "security arrangements"? How does TB "not being in the confrence center then anyway" (TB's words on BBC) have any relevence to the issue. I remember when a politition would love a good heckle, just think about Skinner's assides in the commons!
Power corrupts, Ultimate power corrupts ultimately!

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:08 PM

Absolutely!

Welcome back John!

Absolutely!

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:08 PM

"equate" - state equality of; treat as equivalent.

Picking out some common factor between different things is not the same as "equating" them.
.........................

The heartening thing about this week's episode, and the response to it, is that it's made it a little bit harder for the control freaks and bullies to maintain and extend their stranglehold on political dissent.   This eruption of disapproval that forced Tonty Blair to dicover that he actually has got a reverse gear, has impeded the slide down that slippery slope. If it had been shrugged off as inconsequential, that would have been a green light for the thuggish tendency in party poitics.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:16 PM

don't give a tinkers turd about the old man or Jack Straw (everybody who was a student union leader was a self serving toadying git in my day). As for deciding that a politician was talking rubbish - he's a bloody remedial class pensioner - if its taken him 73 years to work that out - he's an arsehole.

I mean seriously what did you expect Jack Straw to grow up to be - Albert Schweitzer, Che guevara, Eddie Calvert and his Golden Trumpet....

Nah! I'm just delighted that you are back amongst us sir jOhn spreading words of wisdom and giving us lumpenproletariat a wee glimpse of gracious thought and language.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:22 PM

Here in Australia, an American had his visa cancelled and was deported and presented with a huge bill for his detention and deportation. ASIO had determined that he was a naughty boy and 'a threat to National Security' - but he and his legal reps were denied access to find out the reasons why.

The only crime he had committed in the US was being arrested for wearing an animal suit at a US demo.

The 'softly softly' approach is much more effective than the thuggish approach.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:00 AM

what srt of animal suit can have triggered such a reaction.....a baboon with an erection, crocodile shoes with live crocodiles, maybe a hat with a lion attached?

Perhaps he came as a rabbit with myxamitosis ...Australians used to be sensitive on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: kendall
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 08:42 AM

It is not necessary to compare Jack Straw or Tony Blair to Hitler and the brown shirts. Of course they are not the same, but, their behavior in that incident was exactly the same.

These birds should learn from professional performers how to deal with hecklers. Instead of condoning the bouncers actions Mr. Straw, could have shouted "I'ts ok, I remember MY first beer."

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 09:24 AM

These birds should learn from professional performers how to deal with hecklers.

I though they were, at least in part, profession performers, and are used to hecklers. Most senior ministers have a departmental question session occasionally, lke Prime ministers Questions, but a bit less crowded and rowdy. Or is that my mistake?

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:16 PM

Dealing effectively with hecklers can make a speaker look good. I suspect that, from the point of view of the New Labour machine, it's seen as advisable to limit the oppportunities for people who aren't Tony Blair to look good. So a zero tolerance policy towards hecklers is logical. Incompetantly organised on this occasion.

In the past there has been a tradition, both in politics and in other branches of show business, of having the occasional scripted heckler planted in the audience, to allow the speakers who aren't that good on their feet to come back more effectively. Another lost tradition, so far as politics is concerned anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: GUEST,anti fat thug brigade
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 08:16 PM

those bouncers were both reaaaallllyy FAT !!!


surely even an 82 year old pensioner could have teased them enough
to make them cry and run home to their mums..

especially the one who fobbed off reporters with his remarks
about his yummy cake..

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: kendall
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 05:09 PM

Ronald Reagan was a master at dealing with hecklers.

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:33 PM

Surely the most heinous part of these proceedings was the use of the "Provention of terrorism act" against the 82yr old, to prevent him from re-entering the centre.

How long can it be before the midnight "knock on the door" for the more radical mudcatters?
The return to the form of various right wing, ex-military types, bodes ill....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:40 PM

That's what current so-called anti terrorism laws are realy for ; to suppress free speech, free expression, and free thought.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 06:56 PM

On the Dylan thread there was a newsreel clip of the famous oration by Mario Savio in front of The University of California in Berkeley.

Savio was the leader of the Free Speech Movement which helped to radicalise the students, strengthen the Civil Rights Movement and hasten the end of Vietnam war. Mario Savios' words are still relevant. Here is part of his speech.

"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 07:11 PM

jOhn buggered off again?

Subject: RE: BS: People shouting 'Rubbish!'.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:29 PM

They got him with the 'anti-terrorist' law?