BS: The smoking ban & pubs

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:15 PM

Agreed - let's cut out the "self righteous crap". Which was the point I was making.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:07 PM

Is one allowed to smoke green stuff?
Sorry, couldn't resist..
Surely though, in an ideal world, shouldn't we all have a choice as to the smokiness of the social environment we wish to frequent? Few smokers actually wish to cause suffering or discomfort to anyone, and there's room in the world for smoke free pubs or rooms within. A bit of tolerance is all that is needed. As M. of H. said though, it's done now and there's no going back.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:20 AM

"let's cut out the "self righteous crap"."

What's self-righteous about not wanting to be poisoned? Seems like basic self-preservation to me. Anyway, going outside is a great opportunity for a chat. I was standing around outside with the smokers from the folk club on Sunday and we we could have a conversation without my having to breath in the second-hand smoke. Nobody complained - everyone was happy. What's the problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Watney
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:56 AM

What we all need to look at is the fat ass brigade. These monsters are a drain on the health service and seem to always slip under radar when it comes to taxation.

If someone with six asses books an airfare, they should be made to pay for two seats. The amount of people that live of benefits because they can't work due to a weight problem is ridiculous.

Either force them back into work by stopping their benefits or put their ass in a bacon slicer.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:07 AM

I hread on the radio over here in Britian 1,000 people die through second hand somke and tell their famlies that second hand smoking doesn't exsits

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:13 AM

"The argument against passive smoking is a very weak one in my opinion, as those who object to a smokey atmosphere are usually perfectly capable of removing themselves from it if they feel they are in any danger or discomfort."

If I stood outside your house banging a drum, would you call the council and get a Noise enforcement officer to move me on or would you sell up and go and live somewhere else?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:19 AM

"The amount of people that live of benefits because they can't work due to a weight problem is ridiculous."

Is it more than the number of people who live on benefit because of smoking related illnesses? You obviously have the figures at your fingertips so would you be good enough to enlighten us?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Essex Girl
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:37 AM

McGrath, I fully agree with you. Let's reduce the tax on drinks sold in pubs and curb the 24 hour sale of cheap booze in Supermarkets and so-called convenience stores! My enjoyment comes in going to a pub with good beer (Real Ale) meeting with friends and enjoying music.I drink wine at home (which I buy on trips to France) but nothing beats a well kept draft ale in a traditional pub!!! I have never smoked but have never objected to others smoking but I can now enjoy pubs without having to wash all of my clothes to get rid of the smell!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:37 AM

"What we all need to look at is the fat ass brigade. These monsters are a drain on the health service and seem to always slip under radar when it comes to taxation."

But, Pratney, their fat arses won't kill me the way your filthy smoke might.

Why won't you pillocks get it - YOUR filth harms OTHER PEOPLE. Oh, and by the way, guess what, YOU STINK.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:40 AM

In smokers defence - they have no clue as to how bad they smell. Most smokers never notice it. I've heard recovering smokers say it time and time again that they never knew how much the smell of smoke clung to their clothes and breath. Only after they quit will they begin to get a clue as to how offensive their odors are. And have you ever kissed a smoker? It's like kissing an ashtray.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:13 PM

I find it rather amusing that it's the non-smokers here who are blatantly more stressed about the issue. You have nothing to defend, yet you persist in making fools of yourselves with fatuous illogical arguments and personal insults. Give it a rest; enjoy your nice clean scum-free pubs while they are still in business. If your taste in music is less important than whether the performer smokes or not, then.. well, work it out for yourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

Mrs Patrick Campbell's comment about homosexuality "I don't care what they do, so long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses" rather applies here to smokers, slightly adjusted. "I don't care what they do, so long as they don't do it in the pub and make me choke".

Live and let live (or possibly die). No need to get bad tempered about it .

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

I admit, Smokey, that being killed by other people's selfishness can be pretty stressful but at least we don't have to light up to calm down. Oh, and performers don't usually smoke whilst performing so I can't see what your argument is there. The pubs I go to are busier than ever so no problem there, either.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:45 PM

One thing that does bother me about smokers is that so many of them treat the world like it's their ashtray. Where ever they take their last drag is where they drop their butt. Sometimes they stomp it out but usually they let it just smolder away. And who knows - maybe it won't set fire to something else. I've seen smokers drop their butts two or three feet from an ashtray because they were just too lazy to dispose of it properly. I've even seen them droped to smolder on carpets. A major portion of smokers are just plain rude and inconsiderate of the feelings and rights of others. Of course - that's just one man's opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:38 PM

ARRAN in America thet heard on the radio that the Martians had invaded! So they ran for the hills in their 1000s.
So ALL radio is true is it?
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

ALL most of us want is a system whereby the 25 - 30% of us who DO smoke can go to smoke. e.g. a few "smoking pubs or bars" about 25 -30% perhaps, you know DEMOCACY at it's best! Is that asking TOO much?
Also we don't need all the grief we get from a few (& it is a few) non smokers! When I do have a pint at the local & it is drop in for one now & again I often end up sitting in the smoking shed with non smokers while the pub is nearly empty.
But trust me if I am first on scene at a car accident the first thing I will do is check the ashtry, no dog ends = no help from me.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:56 PM

But think how much more money you'd have for beer and ale if you quit smoking. You'd probably live longer too.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Megan L
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:59 PM

"But trust me if I am first on scene at a car accident the first thing I will do is check the ashtry, no dog ends = no help from me. "

That just about sums you up.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:05 PM

Correct Megan, I have never done a single thing in my life to help anybody in any way!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:09 PM

I think Megan might be experiencing a slight irony deficiency...

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:16 PM

Just for the record Megan, I am in no way involved in Folk music, song or dance, let alone strange men with hankies & or sticks!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:48 PM

Of course some of us are stressed. For years I had some -- quite a lot actually - smokers treat me like an intolerant anti social fool. I was told I was being paid to put up with their smoke. I was told it wasn't their smoke that was the problem. I'm stupid you see -- I don't understand my problem. I was told I could go to a wonderful homeopath who would sell me drops to put on my tongue so that their smoke wouldn't affect me. I was told my problem wasn't as bad as being starved/blown up/getting ebola ...... (ie. breathing red herings). I was told they had rights. I'm still told it's a matter of dislike of the smell of smoke that's the problem.

Smoking has not been banned because of the smell of smoke, or the sight of dirty ashtrays or streets, or because kissing a smoker is unpleasant. It's been banned -- in public -- because second-hand smoke is not compatible with normal breathing. The right to breathe over-rides the limited privelege to smoke.

There now. I've had my rave. I understand that remaing stressed about this subject is now my problem. I hope for a cure very soon.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:49 PM

I note that no one wanted to comment on demoracy. We are killing 1000s in it's name but can't apply it to our own in any form!
Democracy or hypocacy.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:27 PM

Do you really think that the smoking ban in pubs wasn't supported by most people, skipy? You might claim that it was an infringement of minority rights (that's another argument) but not that it wasn't a a decision supported by most people. Or rather, if you claim that you'd have to come up with some pretty convincing evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:58 PM

Backwoodsman, any chance of directing me to a site that shows a death certificate showing that someone's death was caused by second hand smoke or passive smoking ?

Unlikely, yet again you are talking through your ass. Nothing new in that.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM

Since the ban in England my wife and I have discovered pubs! We now go a couple of times a week to a smoke free homebrew pub with the most delicious beers you ever tasted and terrific food. No piped music, but live music nights in a separate room a couple of times a month that we are now going to attend when we can.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:39 PM

"Backwoodsman, any chance of directing me to a site that shows a death certificate showing that someone's death was caused by second hand smoke or passive smoking ?"

Man, that statement was just plain stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Watney
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:43 PM

Great news, looks like the recession in the drinks trade is over. Welcomed news for the vintners trade, two hotpots a few times a week washed down with a couple of swift half's of homebrew.

Hail Hail the smoking ban

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:55 PM

I don't remember having the opportunity to vote on this particular piece of legislation, or seeing any poll results for that matter. For those who are happy with it, it's fine - the whingers have 'won'. Why are they still whinging I wonder? Why be gratuitously unpleasant to and about people who are no longer a problem for you? You didn't like it, now it's gone - there is no need whatsoever to rub our noses in the ashtray.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Watney
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:08 PM

Ol' Smokey, have you seen any of these death certificates giving the cause of death as passive smoking or second hand smoke ?

They must be about somewhere as learned people above keep quoting them.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:12 PM

That's just plain ignorant.

What part of lung cancer don't you understand? What do you think causes it? Serving fish & chips, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:13 PM

I expect the big tobacco companies have conspired to make them all disappear..

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:33 PM

Pardon my pedantry, but there is no evidence whatsoever that lung cancer is caused by smoking, merely that you stand a greater chance of dying from it if you smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:37 PM

Yeah, sure. And the sky is falling, too. Try reading the side of your pack, than cough me up something green and solid.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:44 PM

Well, I expect you know best.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Watney
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:46 PM

Ol' Smokey, maybe Stranger could back up this argument and sent us to a link to see one of these death certificates ?

Well if he can't then there isn't any proof to back up his case.

1 to us I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:00 PM

There is no argument - no-one has ever produced actual evidence of passive smoking being fatal.

Anyway, I'm off to blow smoke at some crippled orphan asthmatic children - I have a reputation to live up to here.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Watney
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM

Me too, gonna waken up half the street with a cough or two. Well at least "Stranger" considers us environmentalists, I don't cough up green stuff do you ?

NITE NITE COUGH WELL.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Ol' Smokey
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:12 PM

No, I prefer to smoke it.

Yours wheezingly,

OS

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:16 AM

Death certificatesa don't say that people die of old age either - but when was the last time you met someone who'd lived forever (one thing's for sure, it wouldn't be a smsoker)?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:51 AM

"The argument against passive smoking is a very weak one in my opinion, as those who object to a smokey atmosphere are usually perfectly capable of removing themselves from it if they feel they are in any danger or discomfort."
Sums up all the selfish arrogance of every smoker I have ever spoken to on the subject.
Smoking in public is smelly, selfish, anti-social and lethal, both to the smoker and non-smoker alike.
Why should we have to "remove ourselves" because somebody wishes to pursue a dirty habit? I go into my local to have a drink and listen to good traditional music, not to inhale somebody else's toxic fumes.
A wholesale ban on public smoking has been in place in Ireland now for some years - it's a done deal and there is no chance of the law being rescinded,
It's rather amusing watching smokers in the UK and elsewhere running around like headless chickens at the threat of a permanent ban.
The last time I was in the UK it smelt like an old ashtray - welcome to the 21st century!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:25 AM

theleveller, yes you may be able to quote facts and figures from Russia (Death certificatesa and a smsoker) but I do think they are looking proof in English.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:44 AM

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4998-passive-smoking-kills-one-bar-worker-a-week.html

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:54 AM

"Pardon my pedantry, but there is no evidence whatsoever that lung cancer is caused by smoking, merely that you stand a greater chance of dying from it if you smoke."

Well, apart from the statistical evidence, which is absolutely overwhelming (and which even your concession above understates), there is plenty of evidence that the tar component of cigarette smoke contains a multitude of carcinogenic compounds which can be isolated out and shown to cause mutation in living cells. The last time I heard, the number of such compounds found was well into double figures. I mean, what else can anyone do to convince you, bar pouring gallons of each substance into the lungs of volunteers and waiting for them to die?   You'll be telling me next that I can't prove that the moon isn't made of green cheese because only 99.68% of it has been surveyed so far.   It isn't pedantry you should be asking us to excuse - it's sheer, blind denial.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:04 AM

"Backwoodsman, any chance of directing me to a site that shows a death certificate showing that someone's death was caused by second hand smoke or passive smoking ?"

Don't need to, there's plenty of medical evidence and medical opinion supporting the smoking ban.

"Unlikely, yet again you are talking through your ass. Nothing new in that."

Ever heard the one about the pot and the kettle?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,THE ONE
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:52 AM

I have removed at least 20 thousand lungs from people in my job, i have yet to see a smokers lung the most soiled lungs are from them that live in towns even 5 year olds, the nice pinky lungs are from those from the country even 80 odd year olds

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:56 AM

"theleveller, yes you may be able to quote facts and figures from Russia (Death certificatesa and a smsoker) but I do think they are looking proof in English."

LOL. If picking up on my typing is your sole argument, Yorkie, I won't demur. It's pointless my getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man/woman.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 10:11 AM

The bottom line is that more people wanted smoke free pubs than wanted the smoke-filled type. Majority rule. Democracy at work. And IF you get enough people who want to back to the old way of doing things you can have the law reversed. Good Luck.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Rustic Rebel
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:54 AM

The bottom line is that more people wanted smoke free pubs than wanted the smoke-filled type. Majority rule. Democracy at work. And IF you get enough people who want to back to the old way of doing things you can have the law reversed. Good Luck.

Are you saying you voted for the ban? Did you actually have a voice?

Bee-
You stated the bar owners are the whiners. And with every right to whine. Were they given a right to vote? Were they given the choice on how to run their own private-owned establishments? After all, they are the ones who pay taxes, insurances, mortgages, etc...

Here in Minnesota,(US) the ban has been in effect since Oct. 1 2007. We have had an intresting turn of events due to how the law reads.

There was an exemption put into the law for theatrical events. Smoking is allowed as a prop. Shakespear put it best~~The world is a stage and the people it's players
Bar owners have run with this exemption and are now doing theater nights in their bars. It has become a state wide event with more bars participating.
Now bar owners are being threatened with losing their licenses on alcohol and food. They are being threatened with $10,000.00 fines if they continue. But the show goes on because it is in the law!

Now a new bill is being entered into legislation attemping to give bar owners back their CHOICE whether they want smoking in their establishment or not.

If anyone is intersted- this is a good sight to read whats happening over here.http://freedomtoact.com/

To you folks here on this thread against smokers I just question why you have a problem with the rights of all people. Are there not enough pubs and bars around where there can be a compromise? Do you really want every bar for yourself whether you go into them or not? Jeez-Land of the Free~~~


Peace.
Rustic

P.S. I'm still with you on this one Skipy-You go man!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:58 AM

Its a typical bit of New Labour Bad legislation ! NOT properly thought out , and not letting anyone make a decision for them selves ! Thank You Nanny State

Oh yes - And 100 !