BS: The smoking ban & pubs

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 12:01 AM

skipy, this is one Mudcatter who absolutely does not want you dead, or gone, or wishes you ill. I may be vociferous in not wanting to be exposed to smoke, but that has nothing to do with whether I think you are a valuable Mudcatter. You are, and that is that. Do I wish you didn't smoke? I wish that everyone didn't smoke. Last time I checked, I couldn't get second hand smoke over the internet.

So stick around, son. We like having you here. If you take the position that smoking should be allowed anywhere where folks that aren't smoking have to be exposed, we will argue. But don't leave us. That would be good for no one.

And quit smokin' those damn things......***chuckle***

All the best, and I mean that sincerely,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:45 AM

skipy, 5:41

My life has just about been destroyed by this law

skipy, 38 minutes later

I don't, won't & never have tried to blame others, it is my choice, always has been & always will be!

So, you will never blame others? I guess you must have passed 'this law' then?

As to perhaps you should try giving something up. Well, I have, and not just smoking tobacco I can assure you. It was difficult but not impossible. It certainly didn't 'ruin my life'.

Give it ip skipy. If not the smoking at least make an effort to stop whinging.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 07:36 AM

it might be your choice to smoke however it's our choice not to.

but we non smokers don't have that choice when smokers are outside at bus stops, train stations and other places where people gather or in other people's cars do we and what about the chidren they don't smoke unless it's second hand smoke, so stop whinching and just get on with life

cough!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Alice
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 11:56 AM

We care about you, Skipy. We also care about what affects the public health.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:58 AM

So do I as a non someker, but as I have said I don't have a problem with smokers but I also have a choice the same as them

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 02:43 PM

I've followed this thread, read every post but not yet contributed.

The posts that I can identify with the most are those from McGofH.

This is an interesting link from today's news:

genes

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 04:09 PM

Skipy - I fear you are cutting off your nose to spite your face, and suffering more than you need to. You deserve better than this! We do care about you, please don't give up on us.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:16 AM

cough

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:36 AM

Some people enjoy martyrdom, Kitty. I think it is a good substitute for nicotine...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 07:00 AM

passive smoking is not a disease is it mow the affects are that's why there is not a death cerificate with someone dying of passive smoking but the illness that you get from it is.

cough splutter die

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 07:51 AM

Another great night at the Royal last night - 10 years on now and still they turn up in significant numbers to get their share of both active and passive music; since the smoking ban the pub has enjoyed income from an increasing number of folk who previously wouldn't go near for fear of "the poisonous fog".

It's understandable that those who find the taste so sweet can't understand why the rest of us find it so unbelievably vile. Life really is so much sweeter now - though I feel cheated out of all those wasted years of pointless pontification.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 02:33 PM

No last word from you, skipy? Not even to answer the question I keep asking you? Or let us know how many valuable organisations have folded since you withdrew your support?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 03:32 PM

Skipy don't rise to Dave's cynical comment. He is good at talking out of the side of his mouth.

You know the type that gives it but can't take it ?

Well that's what your dealing with here. Wasn't so long back that he left mudcat due to being challenged. His departure was short lived. Wanted members to beg for his return, few did.

Then last year he posted a comment on a thread in which he said he received a pm from a GUEST ! well as we know, a guest can't send a member a pm.

That's what your dealing with Skipy.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:25 PM

Yes, Guest/Guest, we do know who we are dealing with in certain cases. Everyone knows my name and I did receive a PM from a mudcat member who was posting as a guest. Maybe it was you? How can you ever prove who you are? Guess hiding behind made up names and remarks that prove how 'clever' you are is about your limit. Oh, and I can take as much as I give. Tell you what - I'll set you a challenge now. Mail me at my hotmail address - It's easy enough to find. Tell me who and where abouts you are and I will give you the same courtesy I give other people who have the courage to put their own names to insinuations about the characters of others.

Put up or shut up.

Cheers

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:33 PM

Oh - and BTW, I have never met skipy but I know him quite well. I know his name, where he lives and where he comes from as well as details of what he does for a living and for pleasure. We have exchanged PMs on a number of occasions and I have offered him help with a project he is involved in.

He is a man who is prepared to put his name to and stand by his convictions. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevent. Our ongoing argument about smoking in public places is a disagreement between, if not friends, then certainly peers. He certainly needs no help from cowards who keep their heads below the parapet.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 08:04 PM

Well if your a friend or acquittance of Skipy allow him an opinion.

Regarding my identity, what do you want me to give you a catchy name ?

I don't disclose any of my personal information on any forum. Regarding your request where I live, I live in a place called Long Millgate.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:11 PM

Hi DP, I did not say that organisations would fold without me, I just said let the non smokers run them, as I am sure they will without any problems.
Skipy
There is a poem that covers it, I will try to find it.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:19 PM

Sometime, when you feel important,
Sometime, when your ego's in bloom,
Sometime, when you take it for granted,
You're the best qualified man in the room.
Sometime, when you feel that your going
Would leave an unfilable hole,
Just follow these simple instructions
See how they humbles your soul.
Take a bucket & fill it with water,
Put your hands in, up to the wrists,
Pull them out, and the hole that remains,
Is how much you'll be missed.
You may splash all you like when you enter,
Stir up the water galore,
Stop and in just a minute,
It'll look quite as before.
The moral in this example
Do just the best you can
Appreciate yourself, but remember,
There is no indispensable man.
skipy
I will not be missed & have no desire or pretence to be

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:23 PM

Guest guest, sorry to say this but I would rather do battle with DP than take aid from a "nameless" one, regards to you but that is how it is! Although DP would rather read my obit than my posts.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:40 AM

Now, skipy, you know that is far from true! I would like to read that auto-biography that you are writing for the kids and, if I am still around, see it continue for a good many years yet:-) The only reason I was asking you those questions is to prove the point that the smoking ban is not having the effect you predicted. I guess from your lack of response that your pub has not closed? Yes? Nor have, as you say, the organisations you are involved in affected. Your other community activity, from whence your name comes, is a good outdoor one anyway and you can smoke to your hearts contect while re-cycling other peoples cast offs:-)

Guest, Guest. I am allowing skipy an opinion just as he is allowing mine. It is called two people disagreeing in an adult and, hopefuly, constructive manner. What is the problem with that? Next, I didn't ask you to disclose any personal information on the forum. Send a message to my hotmail account. I guess Long Millgate is non-UK? unless it is the Long Millgate in Manchester, in which case I am sure we will have met in the Hare and Hounds. Once again - mail me. Until then you are just amongst the ranks of people I do not know, don't really want to know and have no reason to show regard for.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM

as I always say to these people proove it

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM

Fine Skipy, Dave I will leave you both at it here. Yes I do know the Hare and Hounds, been there a few Friday evenings, more a Band on the Wall regular. Please allow each other an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:31 PM

Fine with that Guest, Guest. Come along to Swinton Folk Club tomorrow and I will buy you a pint. I would say any Monday but I am sometimes absent nowadays - 30 years of organsing has taken it's toll and I sort of got out of the habit over the course of last year while I was working in the North East. Check with me before you come - I am easily findable on hotmail.

Just one thing - What was all that nastiness about on Saturday? I have no problem handling it but I would still ask why.

And skipy, seriously, don't let this ban 'ruin your life'. There is no need. And always remember that people are allowed to disagree with you without wishing you harm.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 04:05 PM

Thank you Dave I apologise to you unconditionally if I offended you. I do feel smokers suffer enough prejudice out there without keyboards joining in.

My opinion, my viewpoint my privilege.

Nastiness on Saturday ? sorry can't put my hands up to all the guest posts that day.

Sorry, long drive from work here in Scotland to homestead in Manchester.
Offer appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 05:14 PM

Ahhh, ok, maybe you were not the 'Guest, Guest' that said of me on 05 Apr 08 - 03:32 PM 'the type that gives it but can't take it '. Classed generaly as a personal insult but I am thick skinned enough for it not to worry me:-) Join up and then no-one can mimic you.

I know the long drive to Scotland well. I have a very good friend there, habe been up twice since January and intend to be in the south west (Near Newton Stewart) at least once every couple of months. I am sure I can still buy you that beer.

I also feel qualified to comment on smoking, btw. I gave up the 40+ a day habit over 10 years ago but I still occasionaly enjoy the odd cigar, roll-up and, oddly enough, Sobranie cocktail cigarette. But only the pink ones:-)

Offer still open.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 05:58 PM

"Sobranie cocktail cigarettes" Wow that takes me back, multi coloured papers and gold foil on the tips. A weekend treat from the cough nails Player's No6. Weather rough in Scotland tonight.

You did well to quit. I think you probably enjoy it more just a rare occasional one. I envy people who do this, a friend is much the same as yourself.

Enjoy week ahead Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:19 PM

Hi Guest guest, glad to see that you are not offended, why not join us for real? or perhaps you already have!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:34 PM

Dave, no my 3 pubs are not yet closed, but please believe me all 3 are struggling really badly, you would be very welcome to spend a weekend with us & go to all 3 & talk to staff & any punters that are present about the change since last July, it IS dire.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:27 AM

The point is, skipy, they are still open. 9 months later and they are still going. Think of the profits they must have been making before if they can manage on what they are taking now! Why did they never use any of those profits to give non-smokers a fair chance then by, for instance, building seperate smoking (or non-smoking if you like) rooms or by installing sophisticated air flow equipment?

Even without the smoking ban takings would have been down - everyone and his dog are saying so. Cheaper supermarket booze, recessional economy and changing attitudes are as much to blame. Why single out the smoking ban? For the majority of people it is a good thing. I know this is a crusade of yours and you are more than entitled to your opinions but I am equaly entitled to mine. Don't take it so personaly - I never accused you of wanting me dead everytime you blew smoke at me did I? (OK - I know we have not met - It was figurative!)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:13 PM

"I know this is a crusade of yours and you are more than entitled to your opinions but I am equaly entitled to mine."
Believe in or not I would also fight for your right for you to have your opinion heard!
I did spent 25 years in the military afterall!
Skipy
(just about to buy an mp3 on Ebay to try to pump a song into my head so that I can gird my loins, enter a singaround & do one, but don't get between me & the door on the way out!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM

as a small boy I has Astmatic bronchtis, I still have asthma but not as bad, when I was a wee boy Tabcco smoke I just couldn't stand, still can't really and as for being in the miltary what has that got to do with the smoking ban as I said where is your proof that second hand smoke does not kill you and the pubs as closing because smokers have now to go outside, I mean no one forces you to light up or go to the pub do they now, but if you want to slowly kill yourself and be a drug addict then go ahead, I don't mind at all but remember our health as well.
Good Luck

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:05 AM

"Believe in or not I would also fight for your right for you to have your opinion heard!" (skipy)

"and as for being in the miltary what has that got to do with the smoking ban" (Arran)

Arran, give skipy a break - I think he was actually defending Dave's right to have a different opinion there!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: skipy
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 04:36 PM

Arran it has nothing to do with the smoking ban at all but it has everything to do with democracy!
So I defend DPs right to his opinion 100%
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Sapper
Date: 13 May 09 - 08:57 AM

At a time when 25 + public houses a week are closing in England and Wales a landlady of a pub in has exploited a loophole in the country's smoking ban by opening a "smoking research centre" where drinkers can light up legally.

Locals at the Cutting Edge pub in Barnsley, northern England, must fill in a questionnaire on their smoking habits to satisfy legal requirements before sitting down for a drink and a cigarette in the centre.

England and Wales introduced a ban on smoking in enclosed public places in 2007, contributing to tumbling beer sales which have forced over 2,000 pubs to close in the last year, according to the British Beer And Pub Association.

The Cutting Edge's landlady Kerry Fenton opened the centre, which is a separate room in her pub, five days ago.

She said,"It's given business a shot in the arm, profits are well up and people are coming in from other areas, and it's all in the name of research, legal and above board," "I'm a non-smoker but I believe in the freedom of the individual."

Good on you girl.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 May 09 - 09:13 AM

"a landlady of a pub in has exploited a loophole in the country's smoking ban by opening a "smoking research centre" where drinkers can light up legally."

Hysterical...!

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 May 09 - 10:05 AM

........a precedent??

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 09 - 11:04 AM

A "smoking research center"? Are they keeping records?

In Alaska as in many other US states, smoking indoors in public places is illegal.

No pub, to my knowledge, has closed. I am sure that their bottom line has been impacted, of course, but no one has closed.

* A cabbie has told me that their own revenue stream has been affected. He said that people are going home earlier, that taxi cabs now rarely have the late night calls they used to rely on.

* The city of Juneau has officially declared the cigarette butt-littered sidewalks outside bars to be a public nuisance but has not yet found a way to counter the problem. They have installed cigarette butt receptacles on the trash cans but many smokers don't use them.

However I also know that nowadays it is much nicer, not to mention possible, for large-ish groups to meet in a bar to gather in conviviality. I now see people in bars who had not been able to go inside in years.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: GUEST,Anne
Date: 13 May 09 - 11:21 AM

"No pubs have closed" Ebbie, Around 26 pubs in the UK are being closed down each month, that research was carried out by the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA).

It says many such pubs are turned into homes or demolished, and CAMRA has now launched the Community Pubs Foundation in an attempt to protect others.

CAMRA said that in 2000 about 10 pubs a month were being closed, but the situation had since worsened thanks to the smoking ban.

It said that on top of the pub closures, 438 pubs across England, Wales and Scotland remain closed and are facing an uncertain future.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: TheSnail
Date: 13 May 09 - 11:44 AM

Is it the smoking ban or is it the price of beer?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8046795.stm

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 May 09 - 12:34 PM

Think that loophole would work for grass?

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 May 09 - 12:38 PM

Guest/ Anne, in context I believe it is perfectly clear that I speak of Alaska and specifically of Juneau, its capital city.

I don't know how many eateries/pubbities there are in Juneau (My apartment looks down on or is in earshot of five bars) but as I say: No pubs/bars in Juneau have closed in these several years since the smoking ban, whether because of the ban or anything else.

Incidentally my mind boggles at the number of pubs in the UK there appear to be. In the US liquor licenses (the right to serve liquor) are issued on the basis primarily of the numbers already existing and the surrounding populations served.

On occasion an establishment loses its license, either temporarily or permanently, because of infractions of the code. Most often those infractions consist of being caught serving undearage people.

However I remember one establishment in Oregon years ago that lost even its right to serve food, much less liquor, because the city decided that certain elements of the population gravitated to it in an unhealthy fashion. Lots of fights there and there was even a murder in it.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 May 09 - 10:22 AM

Sigh... Here we go again.

1. The smoking ban is NOT closing pubs. It is indeed a contributory factor but in a worsening reccesionary economy and a scenario where pub drinks are often two, three or many times more expensive than supermarket drinks people are going to chose what their pockets dictate.

2. Some pubs are reporting that business is not declining and more are reporting that profits are up. Why? Possibly because the better pubs are reaping the benefits of the the closure of those that are not as good?

3. The breweries and pub companies had had years and years to fix the problem They have known for a very log time indeed that there was a need to provide a smoke free environment for some people but they chose profit over sense. Not a single pub in my area, and many others, even attempted to provide a 'smokeless zone'. Yet they are agrieved that someone forced them to.

and btw - I smoke the occasional cigar and did use considerably more in the past. I was always prepared to put the comfort of other people over my own. It is no great inconvenience to go outside.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 07:26 AM

A legal alternative? http://www.phatphones.com/electronic-cigarettes.htm

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 02:59 PM

Skipy, there have been smoking related deaths from second-hand smoke. They haven't been reported widely but they can be found. Airline in-flight women, waitresses in restaurants,and others. The tobacco industry has done all it can to suppress truthful information on this subject.

Smoking is a legal narcotic that damages the lungs, produces cancer and is a smoking time-bomb.

Ireland was wise to ban it if it wants to retain its clientele.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: DougR
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 03:58 PM

It is so great to leave my favorite pub and my clothes not stink of cigarette/cigar smoke. And I was a forty year smoker.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:25 PM

Hair too. Hair reeks of smoke when you leave a bar.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:42 PM

As a person who helps to enforce the smoking ban and visit lots of pubs professionally, this piece of legislation is one of the most effective ever introduced. It succeeds where food hygiene and health and safety legislation failed. Contrary to popular belief, it was not illegal to smoke in a food room. It was however illegal for the food handler to smoke in a room where there was open food that was being handled, not quite the same if you are considering taking enforcement action. I also help enforce food hygiene and health and safety legislation and have welcomed this strengthening of smoking legislation.
It is true that many pubs are closing, some quote as many as 4 a day in the UK, but as many others have stated there are many other contributing reasons for this.
Pubs are, without doubt a much healthier place thanks to the ban, together with many other workplaces. On a personal not it now means I can call in the pub for a drink and my wife cannot tell from the smell of my clothing where I have been.
The introduction of the Health Act 2006, the Smoke-free (Premises and Enforcement) Regulations 2006 together with the various other pieces of legislation should be applauded.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 02:50 PM

I agree with 'im and think 'e deserves a knighthood, if he can afford to buy one in todays Britain!
Great to be able to breathe again after a lifetime of having to live with other people's dirty habits
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:39 PM

The very few people in opposition to this very necessary act were, selfish smokers who cared for no one but themselves, and this despite the health benefits that have ensued.

Subject: RE: BS: The smoking ban & pubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 03:48 PM

Hasn't it had an interesting spinoff social effect? — smoking visitors, of whom I still have a few, now go without thinking into the back garden if they want to smoke. Something one just couldn't have imagined a very few years ago.