BS: Are all women better shots than men?

Subject: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:15 PM

Well, it's been my experience. With both guns and bows.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:30 PM

I'm not at all sure about this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:33 PM

I believe women are better shot than men would be!

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:53 PM

If divorce was normally done by dueling with pistols we could have had a clear statistical answer to this question by now...

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:55 PM

I just thought of 3 replies that border on the unprintable....

so just let me say that I have seen some VERY fine women competitors in Olympic archery and firearms.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 12:56 PM

(I like Little Hawks answer better)

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:04 PM

Statistically, there are more male shooters than female so the stat's are heavily in favour of men, but I find that if they overcome their aversion or fear of firearms the average woman develops accuracy on the range faster than the average man. Usually this can be attributed to the fact they pay more attention to the instructors advice than the average male; they seem to have an uncanny ability to focus and correct their mistakes better than men.

My daughter is a better shot with a bow than I am (we go to a range on average two nights a week). She and her brother have been shooting pistol competently since age five. My wife is a fair shot with a pistol, but does not shoot long guns very often. Both my wife and daughter prefer larger calibres (.38 and .45) to .22's and have no aversion or fear of firearms. Several ladies are members of my club, a couple of them are competitive and already medal winners.

Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:07 PM

Depends on lotsa things. Just like most things depend on lotsa things. Maybe even ALL things. Then again, maybe not. That's the thing, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:08 PM

Interesting post, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: rock chick
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:22 PM

Well I beat my husband at clay shooting...would not shoot anything live though. Daughter came first, I came 2nd, and husband 3rd, all in all a good day of competions for the Norris familey ;o) Thats a 75% for the ladies, but there agin i know some very good male who shot extremly well, so who knows?

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:57 PM

I always aim to please.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 02:02 PM

"Daughter came first, I came 2nd, and husband 3rd, all in all a good day of competions for the Norris familey ;o) Thats a 75% for the ladies. . ."

Actually, that's 66.67% for the ladies. Good though.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Kaleea
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:35 PM

Back in the olden days, before bifocals, I was quite a sharpshooter. These days, I only miss now & then.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: vectis
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:47 PM

Mostly

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Feb 06 - 08:49 PM

Well, the only womanz I ever had to shoot against was my mom... It was way back when I was about 11 years old and she and I joined the local NRA gun club and did sport shooting...

I can't remember who was the best shot but I had a lot of medals and patches and stuff but, hey, they prolly give them to all the kids so the kids will grow up to give money to the NRA, be against anything liberal or progressive and end up shooting their buddies accidently while bird hunting...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: rock chick
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:44 AM

Just a rough guess peace, and as you say 'good as' anyway who counting ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 03:59 AM

I believe it was in the early to mid 1960s that a couple of women were doing quite well in competitive collegiate marksmanship, and a number of quite scholarly analyses popped up "proving" that the typical "female body structure" was better adapted to some kinds of shooting competition than the usual male.

While these bits of wisdom appeared mostly in the shooting sports publications, at least a few of them made it into some medical journals.

It was all quite wise and wonderful, and I think a number of people really believed much of it - at the time.

With good equipment, good instruction, peak physical conditioning, and sufficient practice, I doubt that there is a significant "sex-related" difference between what shooters of the various sexes can do.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 05:46 AM

As soon as they overcome the flinch, yes. My other half's a good shot, and she's a far better fly caster than me. I think women are better at taking advice and also at assessing their shortcomings and correcting them.
Thankfully, however, they remain crap judges of personality!

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: freda underhill
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 07:06 AM

Before estimating the size of crossbow differences in a meta-analysis, the influence of statistical artifacts and method-related factors should be ruled out (see van Hemert, van de Vijver, & Poortinga, 2003). de Leeuw and Hox (2002) mention three steps in the analysis of genderized crossbow outcomes data. First, the size of the differences between countries is estimated. Second, it is investigated whether crossbow differences between genderss are attributable to methodological differences in the procedures. Finally, explanatory variables at country level are examined. Thus, variance between countries consists of (1) sampling variance (a non-systematic artifact in meta-analyses that depends mainly on sample size of the genderized crossbow outcomes studies and can have a substantial effect), (2) variance due to methodological artifacts, and (3) systematic and substantive variance. A genderized crossbow outcomes study by Lipsey (1997) is interesting in this context. He described a meta-analysis combining about 300 meta-analyses of psychological, behavioral, and educational interventions. In all meta-analyses, he estimated the genderized crossbow outcomes variance among effect sizes that was attributable to the three above-mentioned sources of variance and residual variance as an additional source, and pooled these estimates across all 300 analyses. Each of the four sources of genderized crossbow outcomes variance, i.e., sampling error variance, method variance, substantive variance (related to the target variable), and residual variance, explained about one-fourth of the total variance. Similar figures were found in a meta-analysis of crossbow emotion studies and a crossbow meta-analysis across several domains of genderized crossbow outcomes psychology (van Hemert, Poortinga, & van de Vijver, 2003; van Hemert, van de Vijver, & Poortinga, 2003). To summarize, a crossbow meta-analysis should set out to examine the amount of genderized crossbow outcomes variance explained by statistical artifacts (such as sampling error), method-related factors (such as the type of instrument that was used) and substantive factors (related to the dependent measure and culture). All findings from parallel genderized crossbow outcomes studies came to the conclusion that women are better shots than men, and that men are worse shots than women.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:02 AM

In the words of Ronnie Reygun, Freda: "There you go again..."

(Exhibit B, guys...)

Deadeye Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:07 AM

Well (& I will be shot down inflamers for this) but

They certainly make better targets..................

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 08:34 AM

Mr Red,

They may make easier targets (but not better) because in our culture we usually frown upon teaching them and equipping them to fight back. Those that have been taught, and develop mental attitude and skills to defend themselves, actually do rather well.

Yours, Aye. Dave (who has taught more than a few)

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: JennyO
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 10:04 AM

Freda, I think your post belongs on the dull thread :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 02:58 PM

Kaleea...with bifocals you should be a brilliant shot....just look at the small sights through one lens..at the large target through the other...can't miss!

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Mar 06 - 04:14 PM

I find they always aim for the heart, and what they don't hit they break.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:56 AM

Giok - sob...

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 06:04 AM

Opportunities for shooting in the UK are very limited, unless you are a member of a club, but back in the sixties there were rifle ranges open to the public.

My wife used to make regular high scores in the region of 8 or nine bulls out of ten shots using a .22, the only calibre available.

She was producing one inch groups at 25 yards, and two inch at 50.

That was significally better than my performance, and I had been taught when I was in the ATC (Air Trainng Corps - the RAF cadet organisation) using calibres up to .303.

So I would say.....Some certainly are better.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:01 AM

Giok - I was alluding to the same vague area. But Dave did highlight something very valid. Unfortunately in the long march to equality there are loosers - and lost niceties. Live with it.

Has anybody ever tried communicating? And that is neither the prerogative of women - nor universally their strongest suite. Trust me - bin there got the divorce.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:50 AM

Well....

I bought a bolt-action .22 rifle back in the early 1990s. Disassembled it and took it over to show my brother. Put it back together at his house, he looked it over and said, "Good gun!" (the standard answer). Then his two oldest boys (in there late teens) asked to take a look. Okay, they passed it back and I started to take it apart when my sister said, "Let me see."

And the two boys got that look that said, "This will be funny 'cause what can a girl know about guns???"

So, knowing that my mother had required all her kids to learn gun safety and to shoot well, I closed the bolt, shoved in the magazine, and passed it over. There were, of course, silent snickers from the boys.

She pulled the magazine, opened the bolt to insure it wasn't loaded ("Treat every gun as if it were a loaded gun until you personally have proven otherwise"), looked through the 'scope, checked again to insure that it wasn't loaded and looked down the barrel to check the rifling with her little fingernail inserted at the breech to reflect light, brought the rifle back, closed the bolt, clicked the trigger, inserted the magazine, and handed it back with the comment, "Good gun!"

As two teen-aged jaws remained on the floor I broke the gun down and put it back into the locked case.

Every one of my nieces can outshoot their brothers and male cousins. My sister could outshoot her brothers. My wife can outshoot me with both pistol and rifle. None of them choose to shoot much, but I've experienced their sharpshooting and believe me, they're good shots.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Megan L
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 11:54 AM

Only with a rolling pin m'dear

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:01 PM

Freda's post to the dull thread?
I strongly disagree, it was most interesting. Women are at least as good as men and arguably better in tasks using fine motor control.

But it made me ponder why there are (since a few olympiads) separate competitions for men and women at the Olympic games in shooting and in bows. Before that, women did compete with men. The best Olympic result for a woman to my knowledge was a silver medal (with the same number of rings as the winner) for Margaret L. Murdock in 1976.

I see no reason at all for separate competitions in these sports any more. Separate competitions in riding have been given up long ago with very good reasons.

Other Olympic sports needing fine motor control skills in which historically women have competed with men are rowing (position of coxswain) and sailing.

In the very old Olympic games (about one century ago) women were not allowed to compete at all. That was of course only to their own best. In 1900, in the Paris games, shooting was still on live (at the start of the shooting) pigeons. Nothing for women of course.

Wolfgang (who was mostly not serious in the last paragraph)

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:16 PM

I don't know about all women, but my mother-in-law is one hell of a shot....that woman is amazing! She got me my very first gun to encourage me to get involved with shooting too (I like to target shoot, she likes to hunt).

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 12:29 PM

She also taught many, many women to shoot after she "retired."

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 03:04 PM

During the late Sixties, usually on Sunday afternoons, if Loren, his wife Marcia, Buzz Ross, Luanne (Loren's sister), and I weren't at the Seattle Police Athletic Club's shooting range (Loren was a member and we came as his guests), we were out in the country east of Seattle in an area where there were no houses and we had a steep hill to use as a backstop. We would bring out a couple of cases of empty beer and soft drink cans, which we subsequently filled with water. A beer can full of water makes a very satisfactory geyser when hit by a .9 mm. or .45 ACP slug.

After we'd been there for awhile, a car drove up and a couple of guys got out. They were also using the area for plinking and informal target shooting. We chatted a bit, looked over each other's arsenal, and said "good gun" a lot. All very friendly.

During the course of the afternoon, I took a break, leaning against the front fender of Loren's car. Loren, Luanne, and Buzz were off someplace at the far side of the clearing trying out a new target .22. Marcia (small, attractive, and blonde—and anything but dumb!) decided to set aside her .22 target auto and do a bit of heavy-duty shooting. She set up a row of five water-filled cans on an old fence rail, then went to Loren's black attaché case (James Bond movies were big at the time, and we all carried our armament in black attaché cases), took out Loren's .45 automatic, loaded five rounds into the magazine, slid it into the grip until it latched, pulled the slide back and jacked a round into the chamber with that characteristic "snick-CLACK!" sound (that sound alone as sent many a burglar running toward the horizon like a terrified rabbit!).

The two guys were also taking a break, leaning against their car just a few feet away and having a smoke. They watched Marcia load that big slab-sided .45 and started to shake their heads. "No," one of them said. "That's too much gun for a female. I hope she knows what she's doing." The other one agreed, saying, "About the heaviest gun a woman can handle is maybe a .38 revolver. She might sprain a wrist with that thing."

As they sood there smoking and "tsk tsking," they were speaking softly, but Marcia couldn't help but hear them. She maintained her sweet smile, but one could detect some tendrils of smoke rising from her collar. I kept my mouth shut and just watched. She stepped off about twenty-five paces back from the fence rail bearing her targets, took a regular target-shooter's stance (body erect, somewhat in profile). With her arm straight, she brought the pistol up. The clearing filled with thunder and in rapid succession there were five air-born cans, split asunder and spewing great clouds of water.

There were two chins resting on the ground. Marcia's wrist was perfectly intact. And she did look a bit smug as she came back to the car to get more targets and ammo—and smiled sweetly at the two guys leaning against their car.

I'd seen Marcia shoot Loren's .45 many times before. She liked it. .22s are nice, but with a .45 ACP, you know that something's happening.

Are all women better shots than men? I assume they are and behave accordingly.

Don Firth

P. S. By the way, Loren was our mentor as far as gun safety is concerned. One of his strict principles is that alcohol and gun powder don't mix. So after we all went back to Loren and Marcia's apartment, cleaned the guns, and put them away in their respective black attaché case, then we break out the beer and prepare more targets for the following Sunday.

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 03:36 PM

Before they married, my brother and his friend Jeff took my bro's girl friend out to shoot. She was from Chicago and had the love-hate relationaship many urban folks have with firearms.

They were using the very high dam of a farm pond for a backstop, and they set up some cans and paper targets. Teri shot a .22 rifle and did fine, then "the boys" handed her a .357 Magnum revolver loaded with .38 Specials.

She did even better, outshooting both of them at abour 20 yards. She really liked the .38 cartridge, in fact.

So...Jeff winked at my brother and loaded five .38 rounds and made the last round a .357 Magnum +P load -- about a heavy a cartridge load as was available in the caliber.

Teri cranked off the shots -- bang bang bang bang bang KABLOOEY! -- and have put all six rounds into the center bull of the target, turned to the guys and said, quite innocently, "I think there more powder or something in the last one."

Subject: RE: BS: Are all women better shots than men?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:17 PM

My daughter used my .45 Colt semi auto pistol for the first time just before going to high school. Because she was unfamiliar with the gun I set the target at twenty feet on the indoor range and she fired 14 shots into it. Although the bullets scored on the paper but they were a bit ragged; but she was quiet proud of her score with such a powerfull gun and took the target to school to show her friends.
One young man started teasing her about the ragged group, and made a point of getting some others to see it and start laughing at her.
She marched right up to the boy and stuck the target on his chest, it was obvious all the shots would have been fatal if he had been the target. She smiled at him and said "put in perspective,not so bad is it"?   BFG ;-)