BS: Labour wants to confiscate property

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 10:48 AM

I see I must have hit the spot with the young Iains theory to get him so wound up :-) Didn't spur him on to find anything original though. Still copying the MO of his role model Teribus and not very well at that. Talking of Teribus. You still posting on here after telling everyone who is not directly involved to STFU? Bit strange that isn't it?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 11:03 AM

Well, Boo, I treat your maunderings for what they're worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 11:10 AM

Iains - thanks.. that's a genuinely helpful contribution to this debate.
More constructive posts like that would be far better and help ease off animosity...

At root should be a discussion about provision of good quality safe affordable social housing and the attitudes and ideology of local councils towards such.

This terrible fire disaster spotlights much deeper seated longer term problems....

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 12:55 PM

Crazy Marxists want to give homes to Grenfell survivors – thank God we live in a fair capitalist society

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 05:18 PM

Punkfolkrocker.

The link below gives a potted history of safety regulation and inspection regimes from their inception to the modern development of risk assessment, environmental impact statements, health and safety, etc.

http://www.historyofosh.org.uk/brief/index.html

From a superficial study of what is available today(encapsulated above)I would hazard to guess that the necessary regulatory regimes exist, but perhaps a building in multiple occupancy should be regulated with the same severity as a factory. (or maybe it is but I doubt it) Somehow it appears the use of this cladding "fell through the cracks"of the regulatory regime. Sadly safety legislation has a history of advancing on the back of disasters
1)The 1952 great smog of London reputedly killed 12000people and led to the clean air acts.
2)The Abervan Tip Disaster. Resulting in the deaths of144 including 116 children.   The The mines and Quarries (tips)Act 1968 resulted from the public enquiry into the disaster
To the distaste of many the Labour government took 10% of the donated disaster fund to help clear the remaining tips.
Many others could be quoted, but my premise is that often the risk is not recognised or acted upon until disaster strikes.
The evolution of risk assessments, method statements, etc are an attempt to quantify and manage risk and even guide pre-emptive legislation, but risk can only be minimised when it is recognised.
Having said this, the fact remains that a fire of this magnitude should not have occurred in a high rise building in multiple occupancy

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 05:56 PM

Another question arises: has the U.S. manufacturer of the cladding panels been mis-representing the flammability/fire rating of their product?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Iains
Date: 25 Jun 17 - 06:26 PM

Greg
Cannot vouch for the accuracy but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 17 - 03:15 AM

"has the U.S. manufacturer of the cladding panels "
If the authorities are allowed to concentrate on the building materials, nothing will change
The problems don't just lie with safety here, but with the philosophy of high-rise ghettoising the poor in order to leave as much land as possible free for investment.
High rise development of the type designed in Britain has created social rat-traps - I can't speak for other countries, but from what I've seen elsewhere parts of Europe seem to have the same problems
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Senoufou
Date: 26 Jun 17 - 03:42 AM

Jim, I know Paris well, and my Ivorian brother-in-law lives in a slum tower block out in the 'banlieues' (St Denis), with numerous other immigrants and poor folk. They are a hell-hole, and there must be dozens of these buildings on the outskirts of all the major cities in Europe, not to mention around the world.
The amazing Stade de France in St Denis was built in 1995, at a cost of millions, while the unwanted and neglected immigrants and poor people continue to live crammed together in these festering abominations in the locality.
It worries me that (God forbid) there may be other terrible fires one day due to the sub-standard cladding and non-existent fire precautions. I imagine it's only a matter of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour wants to confiscate property
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Jun 17 - 06:40 AM

The last time I saw Paris (as the beautiful song says) was the day the students were going back after the 1968 uprising - I have no doubt your descriptions are accurate - such dwellings can be found all over Europe
We've just learned that the safety problem includes Ireland where there have been serious fires involving faulty cladding in Limerick and Kildare, which were not of a headline-grabbing size to be followed up   
If the suppliers were international the it's an international problem
Jim Carroll