BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: 282RA
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:34 PM

Btw, did any of the Jesus-was-historical freaks ever prove their case on this thread?

No?

Then I hereby declare victory!!

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:39 PM

282RA - Have you run into a book called "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman ? You might enjoy it. I just finished it last week. Interesting reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:41 PM

I have NEVER attempted to prove Jesus existed, AR282. I think people who try to prove he did AND people who try to prove he didn't BOTH have a bee in their bonnets, and they both ought to find something useful to do instead.

I don't KNOW if he existed or not, neither do you, nor does Clinton, and not one of us has any means of proving it one way or the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:46 PM

"they both ought to find something useful to do instead"

So Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you doing here?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 04:55 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: ClintonHammond - PM
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM

My motivations are not at issue in this thread..... "


So why should Little Hawk's ? Ya can't have it both ways eh.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 05:48 PM

Clinton respects himself tremendously, so that puts a high value on what he has to say...in his opinion. He clearly does not respect most other people. Hardly any other people, if his behaviour here is any indication. Accordinly, what they say is not worth shit to Clinton.

And that is why he is so popular and well loved at Mudcat Cafe... ;-)

I'm not here to prove Jesus existed, Clinton, because it's neither provable nor unprovable. I'm here to identify you as the jerk you are, because it pleases me to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:01 PM

But he's happy Little Hawk !

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:04 PM

Clinton's always happy. ;-) Just ask him.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:05 PM

"He clearly does not respect most other people."

It only looks like MOST to you cause you're on the list LH....

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:06 PM

Naw...it's me and almost everyone else on this forum, Clinton. Your lack of respect for people is your defining characteristic.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 06:16 PM

Bran muffins might help.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: John O'L
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:12 PM

Clinton, are you agreeing with AR282 that Jesus was a fiction, made up after the event and based on the historical Julius?
The amount of contemporary info about each would tend to support this suggestion. I just wonder why someone inventing a tool to use against the Jews would choose a reiteration of someone so famous and so recent. Why not someone new? Why not someone less famous? Why not someone more likely to have been forgotten by then? Why take such a risk of the whole deception falling over because people recognised the model?

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:25 PM

"Btw, did any of the Jesus-was-historical freaks ever prove their case on this thread?

No?

Then I hereby declare victory!!"

Not so fast, there.

First of all, your characterization of "Jesus-was-historical freaks" is essentially a straw man of your own construction. There are a substantial number of non-religious historians who maintain that Jesus (or Yeshua or Joshua), an itinerant rabbi from whose teachings a movement sprang, actually did exist. Considering the spread of the movement (even prior to Constantine), it's obvious that something was afoot. At the very least, one of the several itinerant rabbis who were wandering the area at that time tickled the fancy of a fairly large number of people. It makes a lot more sense to believe that someone resembling Jesus actually did exist to spark it off. The idea of some conspiracy makes far less sense than the idea that Jesus—a mortal human being who may have been quite charismatic, but not necessarily divine—really existed. Proof? None that you would find acceptable, obviously. But sufficient for a large number of accredited, academic historians—who, once again, are not necessarily religious themselves—to believe that it was quite probably true.

But then again, 282RA, what assurance do I have that you exist? All I see are some characters formed by LCDs on my computer's monitor. For all I know, you might be nothing more than some oddball glitch in the Windows XP operating system.

There is more evidence—not actual proof, but sufficient evidence to indicate probability—that Jesus really existed as a genuine historical figure some +/-2000 years ago than I have that you exist now.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 07:30 PM

Yep, AR282, you have won. You are right and 2 billion people are wrong. Can I come and join your religion please? Or is it restricted to complete and utter wankers?

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 09:11 PM

Thats not very Christian of you, DtG.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:22 PM

Clinton, AR282, etc. just think it's unfair that the only intolerant preachers should be Jerry Falwells, Pat Robertsons etc. They want a crack at that role themselves.   And I'll have to say it's type-casting.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 06 - 11:23 PM

LOL! I just love watching born-again atheist dimwits trying to recruit everybody else to join the ranks of the non-religious. It reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses...equally determined, equally blockheaded and fanatical, equally certain of the righteous value of their cause, tedious enough to bore the bollocks off a buffalo, and equally adept at wasting other people's time.

I'll say this, though. The Jehovah's Witnesses are mostly a lot nicer on the whole.

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: John O'L
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 01:13 AM

At least you can slam the door on the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's a lot harder to click that 'back' button isn't it...

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 07:30 AM

I'm not a Christian, Dianavan, I'm a Catholic;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:15 PM

"Why not someone new?"
Because the vast majority of people are not very creative, even though they think they are... Take Mudcat, and Little Hawk for example.....

"There is more evidence that Jesus really existed as a genuine historical figure some +/-2000 years ago"
Lets see it.... we won't cause it isn't there...

"2 billion people are wrong"
IF they could be wrong about the Beatles they could be wrong about anything.... People are mostly scared, stupid and gullible.... See above for example....

"I'm a Catholic"
Sorry for your trouble.....

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:20 PM

Heh! Lovely. Keep it up, Clinton...

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:44 PM

Yeah (yeah, yeah) but the Beatles were bigger than Jesus so there should be more people wrong about them:-) I am not sure what actualy WAS wrong with them but I guess you will be happy to tell us, Clinton? Did they not exist as well?

Anyway, it has recently been discovered that there IS positive proof of his existance. In the recently unearthed and positively validated diaries of Tactus Vinimus, Roman scholar and house decorator of the period the following phrase has been found EGO said , somnium iens tenus pub Jesus? Tamen is said , haud EGO have praecessi ut nonnullus operor vel alius per Judas Loosley translates as "I said, fancy going down to the pub Jesus? But he said, no I have to go to some do or another with Judas"

As to "I'm a Catholic"
Sorry for your trouble.....

It is no trouble at all, Clinton. I gave it up many years ago. What can you do about your troubles though? I didn't think you could give up being Canadian:-0

:D (tG)

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 12:56 PM

" I gave it up many years ago."

Nice to hear a success story....

Subject: RE: BS: Julius Caesar/Jesus - fact or fiction?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

Yeah, I'd say Little Hawk's post of 19 Jun 06 - 11:23 PM puts it right where it's at.

As Eric Hoffer said in his book The True Believer, a fanatic is going to be a fanatic no matter what his cause. And even if he changes causes, he'll be just as rabid about the new cause as he was about the old one. Being a fanatic is what he's all about.

It's a psychological condition, indicative of low self-esteem and an inability to cope with an uncertain world.

Don Firth