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BS: The ax is falling
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Subject: BS: The ax is falling From: kendall Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:12 PM According to the news on NBC today, the cuts have been outlined and the middle class is in danger. Everything from Medicare to the military will be cut. I wonder if they will have the guts to actually do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:28 PM If JUST the military was cut, the middle class would not be in danger, and the world would learn to like and respect the USA again for the first time in several generations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:28 PM I saw this report, too, Capt'n... If I have it correct this was the presidential commission's report... Right??? Well, I understand cuts in spending... I think every progressive knows that is going to have to happen... What I don't understand is that the revenues needed to shore up that side of the ledger seem to all fall on the working man, as well... That ain't gonna fly... If you think that the Tea Party folks is pissed now wait until you tell 'um that Medicare ain't gonna pay fir granny's care at the nursing home and... ...they are going to loose their deduction for the interest on their mortgage and have to pay another 15 cents a gallon for gas and... ... Wall Street ain't gonna be asked to do squat!!! Yeah, bring that day on... But this is the Repubs big plan for US... Has been ever since the New Deal... Gonna be an interesting next couple of years... Wouldn't miss it fir the world... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Rapparee Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:29 PM Kendall, that bunch in Washington wouldn't have guts if they disemboweled an elephant. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: katlaughing Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:03 PM I urge you all to watch Ed Schultz on Rachel Maddow's Show last night and hear what he has to say about this and how it is STILL a Democratic Majority during this so-called lame duck session. After you listen to him and Rachel, if you feel the same way, write to every Dem. you can who is in office and tell them to get a spine! It was really good to hear what Ed said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Mrrzy Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:04 PM LOL, rapaire! At any rate, we shall see... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: ragdall Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:04 PM the cuts have been outlined and the middle class is in danger. Some days it pays to be poor? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:16 PM Eventually the only solution may be to defect to Cuba, Canada, or France...or some other relatively sane country...and hope that the USA never invades! ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 10 Nov 10 - 09:25 PM I saw it, kat... Yeah, if the Repubs think they have the Dems boxed in the Repubs need to think twice... A seriously pissed off Dem Congress could, and I'd love to see it, push some serious legislation if they were so inspired... As fir the comission??? I think it's 100% bogus... It's all on the working class without so much as askin' fro crumbs from the rich... Like I said, wait until the Tea Party folks see what they have done... They ain't gonna like this one bit... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Jack the Sailor Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:15 PM If you can afford to move to Canada. You can afford to stay in the US. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Rapparee Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:38 PM Canada won't let me bring mah shootin' irons with me...mebbe I'll move to Alaska. Them folks ain't so picky-picky and besides, a whole passle of 'em wanna secede anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:48 PM Heck, Rap... If we could get Alaska (the fed's biggest welfare state) off US then maybe we'd solve all the fiscal problems we have... But them folks all think they are "classless and free" and somehow these "rugged individuals" get more back per capita from WEashington than any other state in the USA... And by far!!! Yeah, take away their welfare checks... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:48 PM Enlarging a bit on Kendall- Obama's Bipartisan deficit commission. Reduce annual cost-of-living increases for Social Security. Gradually increase retirement age to 69. Eliminate of reduce mortgage interest deduction. (This is one that has always made Canadian home-buyers drool). Curb growth of Medicare. It doesn't look like the (Bowles-Simpson) plan can win support from the 14 commission members that is needed to force a debate in Congress. Both chairmen acknowledged that the plan is a non-starter. "This is just a starting point." Obama would not comment, says the White House, until the fiscal commission finishes its work. "These ideas are only a step in the process," said White House spokesman Burton; the final product is expected next month. [Just in time for Christmas?] www.msnbc.msn.com |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Ebbie Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:50 PM Hey, hey, hey! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Rapparee Date: 10 Nov 10 - 11:00 PM Hell's bells, Bobert, Idaho gets back more than they pay out and it's bitch, bitch, bitch about taxes here all the time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:15 AM Why is mortgage interest tax deductible? Rent isn't and the UK has not had mortgage interest as a deductible for many years now. I keep on saying - don't cut spending, you need spending to stimulate the economy. Raise taxes, and increase the progression of taxes. This applies to income tax, corporation tax, and capital taxes. Do not raise expenditure taxes, they are regressive and you want expenditure to stimulate the economy. You might want to raise import taxes - but you'd probably have to leave some international trade bodies to do it, and such bodies generally support and benefit the USA more than they do anyone else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:11 AM Richard Bridge: "I keep on saying - don't cut spending, you need spending to stimulate the economy. Raise taxes, and increase the progression of taxes." Economy is the name they give which means the 'movement of money'. When money moves quickly, that's called a 'good economy'...slow, 'bad economy'. Raising taxes does NOT stimulate anything, except dependency on the Government taking more money from those creating wealth, through manufacturing, agriculture, mining, and construction. The Government DOES NOT create wealth!! At best, they are a service oriented economy(with a lot of inefficient waste, I may add). Now, that being said, the fat cats at the top of most mega corporations, or special interest groups, have corrupted the government in a way that they are working for their mutual 'profit', whether it be money or power, both, or the money to manipulate power((and vise-verse). Actually, you want the power in the working people, and entrepreneurs. Working for your own wage is FAR SUPERIOR, than waiting for your government dole!..and you can adjust it upwards, if you so want. Taking money, to live on, that other people earned, and distributed to you, by a government, is a ploy, to get you under their absolute control, and also pretty unethical, as a fellow member of the human race. If there is someone who needs it, as a 'safety net' OK, but those who LIVE on it, will also be the first to be expendable...by the same government!! Just A Thought..... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:38 AM "If JUST the military was cut, the middle class would not be in danger, and the world would learn to like and respect the USA again for the first time in several generations." Excellent! Maybe those in power should watch the speeches of JFK where he talks about the USA *never* imposing its military resources on other countries... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:48 AM GfS - back to economics 101, I fear. Thatcher and the Harvard school argued that excessive velocity of circulation was inflationary, not "good". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: kendall Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:37 AM Stop all deductions for advertising. Let them advertise all they want, just make them pay for it. After all, it doesn't benefit anyone but them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:06 AM "The government does not create wealth", GfinS??? Ours does... Exxon makes $30B a year, pays no corporate income taxes on that profit and gets $150,000,000 tax refund??? Farmers in the Midwest get checks in the mail that many don't even know what it's for??? Our government creates all kinds of wealth with dumbass tax policies that are in place because rich people give money to their Congressmen and lobbiests who in turn write dumbass policy that ****redistributes**** wealth to the already wealthy... Now here's the rub... The working (middle) class has been on the short end of this dumbass tax policy (coupled with Boss Hog's union busting efforts also supported by our government)going on 35 years now and has found itself purdy much floundering... So, we're going to have to "repair" that damage done to the working class in order to correct the systemic failures of our economy... There ain't too many ways to do that other than for the goevernment to "undo" 30 years of bad tax policy and get some of that wealth back into the economy where it can be used by the working class... This, alone, will create "growth" in that the multiplicity factor kicks in as thoise dollars gets moved around... Right now the rich won't even invest their money so the money just sits... The Fortune 500 alone are sitting on $1.7T... That money, if invested, would increase growth by at least 1% which would produce about 2,000,000 jobs, at the very least... Letting the money sit, providing incentives for the rich to set up "off-shore" accounts in the Camen Islands and having a tax policy that promotes sending jobs overseas is what is killing our economy... Do you realize, GfinS, that foreign nations are building infrastructure and plants for US businesses to get our jobs away from US??? And for free!!! And these assests are no taxable as assests?!?!?... Now if ABC Corp. builds a plant in the US the value of that assest is taxable much the way one's house is taxable... But Boss Hog got Congress to exempt those foreign plants??? That gives a major advantage to the foreign workers over the US workers... I mean, you can go down the line and see one policy after another that all but screams "out-source"... And we wonder why the working class ain't doing too well??? Beam me up, Scotty... There ain't much correct thinkin' goin' on down here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: artbrooks Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:08 AM Also, back to Civics 101...a Republican-controlled House and a Democratic-controlled Senate (or a Democratic majority, anyway...the Republicans have demonstrated that they can block legislation from a minority position), plus a Democratic president with the veto pen means that nothing that either party really hates can get passed and enacted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: pdq Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:03 AM The report in question comes from the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform which was created on 18 FEB 2010 by executive order of Barack Obama. The Commission has no power to enact any of the suggestions although it is comprised largely of active members of Congress who do have the power to vote for anything that might become legislation. I don't see a single word of explanation for the 24% increase in Federal Budget in the last two years. No mention of the 88% increase in total Federal Spending in the last two years. Note: much of the recent horrible over-spending is "off budget" items like the Stimulus Bill and numerous executive orders. Did you know that Obama gave schools in New York state $26 billion so that teachers union members could keep their salary increases and benefits packages and eliminate layoffs? Did you know that Obama gave General Motors a $50 billion dollar tax break just weeks ago? The hacks on the Commission have thrown out suggestions that we de-fund NPR and PBS, sart selling of National Forrest land and raise Social Seurity age to 69. All intended to make certain target groups screaming mad so that Obma can raise taxes, which was what he wanted to do anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:32 AM Bobert: ""The government does not create wealth", GfinS??? Ours does... Exxon makes $30B a year, pays no corporate income taxes on that profit and gets $150,000,000 tax refund??? Farmers in the Midwest get checks in the mail that many don't even know what it's for??? Our government creates all kinds of wealth with dumbass tax policies that are in place because rich people give money to their Congressmen and lobbiests who in turn write dumbass policy that ****redistributes**** wealth to the already wealthy..." Then: Bobert: Heck, Rap... If we could get Alaska (the fed's biggest welfare state) off US then maybe we'd solve all the fiscal problems we have... But them folks all think they are "classless and free" and somehow these "rugged individuals" get more back per capita from WEashington than any other state in the USA... And by far!!! Yeah, take away their welfare checks..." Are you going to make up your mind???...and..why are you arguing MY SAME point????: GfS: "Now, that being said, the fat cats at the top of most mega corporations, or special interest groups, have corrupted the government in a way that they are working for their mutual 'profit', whether it be money or power, both, or the money to manipulate power((and vise-verse)." I think your biggest problem, is your partisan party politics, in the fact, that everybody is screwed up, EXCEPT for THEM! It's like you are working around, the Debitcrat's policies being included, when it comes to being a part of the problem. Besides, it doesn't matter.....9/10ths of what they say is just for public consumption, as the Repugnantcans. The people they represent are the ones greasing them away from the public eye.....why do you think, as YOUR post says, those things happened????? How can you allude to one party or the other, as being making all this happen??? It's the top 'management' elite that are the culprits....and who have been misleading the common folk, 'true believers', if you will, that they are really about something else. The target of the deception, is people like you, and me, and anyone else, to do NOTHING that gets in their way! Why this is such a mystery to you, is beyond belief....SHIT, ITS DAMN NEAR COMMON KNOWLEDGE!!! I wonder if you've been playing the same ol' songs for years and years, over and over and over. Perhaps, learn a newer tune. Same in your politics. Get caught up, with whats been happening, since the 60's....(Actually, it was happening back then to...just read the 'Warren Report'!!!!) Happy mowing...or snow removal! GfS Just a thought.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:46 PM Bobert posts more nonsense In 2009, Exxon-Mobil's tax expenses were US$81 billion dollars, four times earnings. Earnings after taxes amounted to 6.2 percent of revenues. U. S. total taxes 2005-2009 were $63 billion; net income was $44 billion. The following is Third Quarter 2010 results: Third quarter 2010 Total revenues- 95,298 (millions) Total costs- 82,440 " Income before taxes- 12,858 " Income Taxes- 5,297 " Sales-based taxes- 7,192 " All other taxes- 10,071 " Total Taxes 22,540 " Companies in which Exxon Mobil holds Equity- Tax share, 881 millions. ............ Earnings per common share- $1.44 (5098 million common shares outstanding) Above are published figures; http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Files/news_release_earnings 3q10.pdf |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM http://thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-tax/ >>>ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated) exxon-mobilLast week, Forbes magazine published what the top U.S. corporations paid in taxes last year. "Most egregious," Forbes notes, is General Electric, which "generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion." Big Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which last year reported a record $45.2 billion profit, paid the most taxes of any corporation, but none of it went to the IRS: <<< The Exxon Mobil report says they paid income taxes, not that those taxes went to the IRS. I am sure that they paid income taxes on their Canadian profits. I think it is likely that the bulk of the 5.7 billion paid was overseas. Also quarterly taxes shown on the books could well be offset by credits and loopholes at year end. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: akenaton Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:06 PM See whats happening in the UK? That's what is about to happen to you....the black cities on fire again. Nothing can be done while you are in the shackles of government, abandon your faith in the Democrats, they are our Liberal Party, who joined the Conservatives in a battle against the people....for only a sniff of power! Join the Republican rebels and build a new society, change it from within, but dont remain divided......the only winners will be the corporatists. The Tea party people will never move towards the left the policies are too divisive, its up to you to make the move, if you don't, your fucked. I wish the UK had a movement with the energy and conviction of the TP, but we dont, so our cause is already lost. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:19 PM All the Tea Party is doing is saying that the ship is sinking and poking holes in the hull. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: akenaton Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:25 PM Thats what we should all be doin' Jack! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:26 PM Of course! Civics as a suicide pact! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: akenaton Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:32 PM The USS Corporation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:20 PM 80 percent of Exxon Mobil income came from outside the U. S. Worldwide tax expenses in 2009 were US$ 81 billion. The tax goes to the place where the income is generated. This is the case for all multi-national companies. According to a later item in Forbes, on form 10K, Exxon Mobil paid US$7.7 billion in taxes in the US other than income in 2009. Alan Jeffers of Exxon Mobil told Forbes that they paid substantial taxes to the U. S. Treasury in 2009, but that they were not required to disclose that information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Jack the Sailor Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:50 PM >>80 percent of Exxon Mobil income came from outside the U. S. Worldwide tax expenses in 2009 were US$ 81 billion. The tax goes to the place where the income is generated.<< Then why did you say this >>Bobert posts more nonsense<< When he said that they did not pay US taxes then, I suppose, try to refute that with a paste from Exxon's financial reports? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:57 PM According to a report by GAO (Government Accountability Office), *two out of three US companies paid no federal income taxes from 1998-2005 (1.3 million corporations with collective sales of $2.5 trillion). Net Operating Loss Carry forwards (NOLs) a profit in one year may be offset by a loss in the next, ending in zero tax liability. US Tax Laws- Foreign Tax Credit Applied where the company has paid taxes elsewhere in the world. The IRS does this to prevent double taxation for corporations (applies to individuals as well). The US corporate rate of 35% could be offset. Exxon's rate was 47%; the tax credit is used to offset part or all of the income tax in the US. *871,000 US companies paid no federal income taxes from 1998-2005. The noise is about Exxon Mobil because it is large, but it has a lot of company, no laws violated. http://www.oil-price.net/en/articles/How-Exxon-paid-zero-tazes-in-2009.php (The "tazes" should be taxes- error by Google) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:16 PM You should notify Keith Olberman, Q, because that is what he reported on her show last night... He has been known to correct herself when her facts are wrong... I'm sure that if the 8! million stands up and this is "corporate income tax" (not with holdings of its employees) that Keith will give you all the credit in the world... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Nov 10 - 08:05 PM Q - The international norm is that double tax relief (ie the permissibility of treating foreign tax as if it were paid in one's home jurisdiction, so deducting it from a local tax liability) will only apply if there is a double tax treaty (a) between the two tax jurisdictions and (b) recognising the foreign tax in question as to be treated on account of the local tax in questions and (c) all the relevant forms are correctly filled in. Something has gone wrong with my grammar there but you get the point. The US does not (I am sure) have double tax (or multilateral tax) treaties with the whole world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Bobert Date: 11 Nov 10 - 09:38 PM A second thought, GfinS, since you are hell bent on trying to stick the dreaded "partisan" label on me: Think about this... How many Democrats are out there saying that both spending and revenues need a look??? Not many... I have talked about a mix going back a long time here in Mudville... That is "progressive" thinking... Not Democrat... Not Republican... But reality... You try to put me into some box that is completely in your mind... Actually, if there is anyone partisan here, it's you... You ***play*** the "classless and free" game but you never miss an opportunity to bad mouth any Democrat... "Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself..." B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 11 Nov 10 - 10:37 PM Jack the Sailor-Man: "Of course! Civics as a suicide pact!" Beats being suicidal, and proud of it! Bobert, Here, is this the progressive thinking you are referring to? Progressive Just in case you were thinking they were two different things..... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The ax is falling From: Donuel Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:42 AM Also on the Corporate wish list is to: Stagnate middle class income at its current rate for the next 20 years. Limit higher education for only those who can afford million dollar 4 year tuitions. Pass laws so that only the big 3 banks will be able to do banking business in the US. Preserve and extend the Citizens United case so that only ciroirations and not Unions may engage in the political finance of election campaigns. Establish an intellifgence test for politicians so that if their score exceeds the acceptable limit of "intelligence" they will be eliminated from consideration. |
