Irish theme pubs - dead ?

Subject: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,Fiddlin' Sid
Date: 04 May 05 - 03:51 PM

What's happened with all the Irish Theme pubs in the UK and elsewhere? Admittedly 'plastic paddy' these places at one time provided gigs a hopping from one O'Neill's or Scruffy Murphys to another on a frequent basis. Was it overkill ? Some nights were horrendous, but I also remember a good craic and some appreciative audiences. I think quite a few of these places are still going, but what of live music ?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 May 05 - 03:53 PM

Dying... slowly... or rather going back to the rarity they were 15 years ago...

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 04 May 05 - 05:57 PM

Well the Black Bull here, after being Scruffy O'Hooligans or some such name for 10 years, has gratifyingly reverted to being the Black Bull. And they still have Irish sessions, as they always have. Real culture lasts, commercial drivel passes.That's optimistic, isnt it?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 May 05 - 06:55 PM

They packed them up and sent them to Australia!

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: CharleyR
Date: 04 May 05 - 07:08 PM

Some friends and I got kicked out of an O'Neill's pub a couple of years ago for playing Irish music - apparently we were disturbing the people watching the football...

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 04 May 05 - 09:21 PM

Two here in Shanghai both with live folk music. I play regularly at both and we often get visitors to Shanghai coming up and doing a turn.

O'Malley's is the oldest, but the Blarney is still the best of the two. Gets good support from the Irish Consul General and we have had some cracking groups perform there when they have visited China and Shanghai.

There are a couple in Beijing but run by some Taiwanese businessmen and they just have some bloody bad Chinese rock bands playing so I avoid those.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: mg
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:46 AM

maybe the patrons did not like being called plastic paddys. mg

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 05 May 05 - 01:45 AM

Have you not noticed the appearnace of Australian and South African theme pubs? There are still a few O'Neills left but I can't remember the last time I saw a Scruffy Murphys.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,Wotcha
Date: 05 May 05 - 04:22 AM

Plenty in Germany ... O'Reilly's in Stuttgart has a great jam every Monday.

Cheers,

Brian

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 May 05 - 04:50 AM

Speaking in my official capacity as the English oppressor, I oppressed them - ruthlessly stamped them out. Firm but fair....it's the only way.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 07:46 AM

I'd call that vicious but fair.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 05 May 05 - 07:58 AM

Charley's post brought back fond memories: In a supposedly "real" Irish pub in Kilburn where I used to live, I once did a Carolan piece on the harp and got told off by the landlord who said to "quit playing f...ing Mozart".

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 May 05 - 08:38 AM

Perhaps the way opens before us to something more sane, we could have cowboy bars where we all dress up as cowboys and say howdy pardner, lasso each other, and shout get along little dogies and other pleasantries.....

And we could drink tequilla and lonestar beer

Interested parties could square dance on their own in the corner

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:15 PM

Do they have English bars in Ireland?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 May 05 - 12:33 PM

And with cowboy bars we could sing authentic cowboy songs....like ragtime cowboy joe and the yellow rose of texas

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: ossonflags
Date: 06 May 05 - 10:40 AM

Well, me and the rest of the Horse punchers are still packing 'em in "durty nellies" in hull and it is as popular as ever.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: mooman
Date: 06 May 05 - 11:22 AM

Alas they have all been renamed

The Big Screen

here in Belgium...

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Rain Dog
Date: 06 May 05 - 12:20 PM

I read that as Irish Theme pubs - The Dead

The decor and ambience modeled on the James Joyce short story The Dead. Unusual story to pick as a theme for a pub I thought. Not sure I would drink in it myself. Now if they used as a theme The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien, I might stop by there and enjoy a pint or two. But I would not tarry too long in case I started to become a bicycle.

Not that a bicycle is unbecoming.

It has just been that sort of day.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 06 May 05 - 12:49 PM

Glad to hear they are going. Crap idea to start with.
I was editing a magazine for Bradford branch of the Campaign for Real Ale at the time the Scruffy Murphys chain ruined perfectly good pubs by ripping their insides out ant filling them with fake memorabilia, nailing musical instruments to the walls and charging half as much again for fizz guinness.
As somebody who has a small degree of Irish ancestry, I found the Scruffy Murphy name insulting. They would never have dared to call a business Greasy Abdul's. If they did, they would have been prosecuted for inciting racial hatred. Why is it then Okay to insult the Irish.
In Leeds, one of the chains employed a manager who was a black Jamaican. When asked by somebody if he felt out of place being the landlord of an "Irish" pub, his reply was that he was as Irish as all the other managers.

Mind you, the latest one in Leeds appears to be a Japanese theme pub.....
Quack
GtD

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Swave N. Deboner
Date: 06 May 05 - 01:02 PM

I love a good Irish pub. We've got a few here in the greater Washington D.C. area. Some really try to maintain an "authentic" atmosphere, and some have let that go by the wayside. There's Pat Troy's Ireland's Own in Old Town Alexandria, Virginia, where the barman know's what a "Smiddicks wi' a Guiness top" is. The music is always Celtic (mostly Irish and Scottish folk music). They serve a decent Irish breakfast, too; 2 Eggs, Irish bacon, black pudding, white pudding, sausage (Irish style), fried tomatoes, beans, and brown bread. I'm not sure about that being a "typical" Irish breakfast, but it's right tasty. Then there's pubs like Murphy's Grand Irish Pub, also in Old Town. Usually full of pissed (drunk) jarheads (Marines), mixed with a few yuppies. It can be good fun, but most of the crowd in there wouldn't know Irish music from Reggae. They think "The Unicorn" is the greatest Irish song ever written.

Here's a plug for my pal, Vincent Quinlan. (You may know of him from the "Celtic Folk".) Vinny gigged at Irish pubs and folk clubs up and down the east coast for more years than he cares to admit. He always swore one day he'd open his own place. One night during a session break, he had an ephiphany. He took a napkin and roughly sketched out the interior of the pub he was picturing in his mind and stuffed it in his shirt pocket. Some time later, He showed it to an architect. Vinny finally realized his dreams and is now the proud proprietor of the Castlebay Irish Pub on Main Street in Annapolis, Maryland. His place is pretty much just as he'd drawn on that napkin. If you're ever in that neck of the woods, stop by for some good craiq, warm hospitatlity, great grub (he serves a wicked she crab soup)and, of course, good Irish tunes.

Go here to see his website.

Slan

SND

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,clive
Date: 06 May 05 - 01:10 PM

Irish pubs? I say fuck em

I won't be happy until every irish pub is wiped off the face of the planet.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: MARINER
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:32 PM

Guest, Surely you mean Irish Theme Pubs ?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 May 05 - 05:49 PM

The initial post seemed to imply that the Irish-theme pubs currently disappearing belong to two specific chains of cookie-cutter identical "plastic paddy" franchise outlets in the UK. Sounds to me like they deserve to fade into obscurity ~ although, if the result is a net loss of potential gigs, there's a downside as well.

I don't believe that there are any such chains or franchises in the US; at least I've never seen one. For all their faults, real or imagined, Irish pubs on this side of the Atlantic are diverse, each one representing its owner's relatively unique conception of a "real" Irish pub. Some are truly scruffy (undoubtedly moreso than any Murphy's franchise in England), some absurdly upscale and expensive, some feature music, others do not, some of the musical fare is strictly traditional (as far as is possible) while elsewhere any kind of folk or rock music is acceptable, whether or not it's even vaguely Celtic, etc. etc. etc.

In such a diverse context, individual bars probably fail and disappear at about the same rate that new ones pop up.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,jwccp
Date: 07 May 05 - 11:33 AM

To: Clinton Hammond
I'd like to take you up on your offer to email an MP3 of "I had a hat when I came in." [e-mail]
Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,fiddlin' Sid
Date: 07 May 05 - 01:22 PM

Yeah, true enough these places were / are pretty false, what with all the assorted rubbish on display, guinness promotions, toy leprechauns, photos of Brendan Behan , fiddle cases with 'Joey Mc Shamrocks authentic Irish Band' painted on them etc etc, ad infinitum. This is what I mean by ' plastic paddy' - a description of all this nonsense and in no way insulting the patrons, as Mary Garvey suggests.

But, perhaps in their day such establishments, along with the dreaded Riverdance and god help us..the corrs did perhaps give Irish music a wider audience, so the loss of such, as Poppa Gator states does indeed have a downside.

Indeed, a lot of the 'cookie cutter - identical pubs'seem to have gone and many of those which still stand, although upholstered in the old manner have abandoned the Celtic music. There are one or two in the north of England which seem to have been privately bought where the music is still important -i.e, Joseph O'Neills in St Hellens and the aforementioned Durty Nellies in Hull are two that I know of.

So where are the real Irish pubs and is there any music in them ? A lot of these seem to have gone, or indeed gone down hill in the last few years. However, the craic is still mighty in The Railway, Preston and The Lord Rodney, Warrington. Two strong live music venues, albeit with a somewhat of a nod to 'plastic' trimmings

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 05 - 01:29 PM

Buy the Irish Post(UK) and have a look at the gig guide. You will find hundreds of 'real' Irish pubs with good music.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 07 May 05 - 02:18 PM

The thing which bemused me as I lived in Bradford when these theme pubs all started was the fact that Leeds and Bradford are full of Irish landlords and REAL Irish people. In Bradford prime examples included Eamon O'Halloran who was running the Melborn in Whiteabbey Road with regular music, much of which was a session of some form or other. Another was Benny Maguire, who had music at Maguire's on City Road.
In Leeds the White Stag (I think) had Irish sessions more than once a week.
There was NO need for Fake Irish pubs, there were more real ones than you could shake a stick at already.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 05 - 02:20 PM

I think the theme pub was always meant to cater for the non irish amongst the population in UK. The type who enjoy tapping their foot to Riverdance but feel uneasy when at the bar ten deep with real irish folk.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 May 05 - 03:29 PM

As has been indicated, "Irish" pubs are flourishing beyond the British Isles. There's a huge one just off Dam Square in Amsterdam.
When I first visited Madrid - God, must be 30 years ago - I and my Irish mate Tommy Breen found a Guinness bar own a back street and wandered in, naively assuming we'd be able able to speak English. Wrong! The manager was as Irish as I am (ie, not at all).
On my most recent visit, Irish theme bars had taken a hold (alongside salsa bars). There's a good one in a street off Calle Princesa (can't remember the name of the street or the bar, sorry) where they speak English and have sessions. It tends to be stuff like Galician bagpipes, but, hey, I wan't complaining.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Ernest
Date: 08 May 05 - 07:26 AM

Irish pubs have been in fashion for a time, but the great craze is over. Over here in Berlin it seems that a few of the plastic paddy pubs with professional interior design and people in charge with no clue about irish music will survive. Luckily also a few of the smaller ones where you get the real stuff.
On the other hand Berlin lost a few really good places in the last few years, the Highlander, Molly Mallones, the Music Pub... The Shannon has reopened after a while with a new management.
That is what makes the difference in the end: if you got a decent management, you will have a good place, if not, it`s just another plastic paddy place...
Regards
Ernest

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 May 05 - 02:58 PM

I just remembered a conversation a few years back, with Bill Sables, who was playing an evenings worth of Wild Rover, Whiskey in the Jar and such like...
Bill, who is a Geordie by birth, said "Do you know why I don't play North East music in pubs". I said "I don't know", Bill said - "Because nobody has opened a Geordie Theme Pub....."
Nuff said!
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 05 - 03:45 PM

What's so special about Irish Theme Pubs specifically?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 05 - 04:58 PM

wow a Geordie theme pub - great idea!

canny lads, and canny lassies on the door of the bogs, pictures of eric Burden and James Bolam on the wall, newkie brown, leeks and whippets on the wall.......

cabaret Time: 4 blokes in flat caps and white mufflers sing the The Lambton Worm and The blaydon races....

its an idea whose time has arrived

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 09 May 05 - 08:59 AM

Great! I've got a rapper team ready to take all the bookings at the London end. Will they have Newkie Broon on draught or will they be Federation Ales?

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST,SND at work
Date: 09 May 05 - 11:17 AM

There is a "cookie cutter" chain of Irish pubs in the U.S. They're all called "Fado." Supposedly, they are all comprised of the actual interiors of defunct pubs in Ireland. The stuff gets shipped over here, lock stock and barrel, and is installed in an existing building shell that will house it all. There's one in the Chinatown section of DC (of all places). Interestingly, the company that owns Fado pubs intentionally avoids opening one in Boston. According to the manager of the Fado here in DC, it's because everybody automatically expects them too,what with the Irish connection with ol' Bean Town. That reasoning doesn't quite make sense to me. They're a wee bit on the expensive side, but at least they hold true to the Irish theme. You won't hear anything but Irish music there.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 05 - 11:20 AM

LOL they also bought London Bridge once! Not.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 05 - 06:50 PM

I just hope it doesn't mean a resurrection of the even worse than the Irish theme pub "Brit pubs" here in the States. If you thought the Irish theme pubs were plastic...

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 May 05 - 02:47 AM

does this mean we can all get gigs in America singing Danny Boy and The wild Rover?

They have strange views on being entertained over there.

Subject: RE: Irish theme pubs - dead ?
From: Flash Company
Date: 10 May 05 - 10:45 AM

The one we had in Altrincham has been closed and empty for about a year, the comment in an earlier post about 'Stop that awful music, we can't hear the football!' would have applied.
Bonnie Shaljean!!!! How lovely to see your name, keep on playing Carolan, please!

FC