BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties

Subject: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:26 AM

The purpose of this thread is to discuss issues related to the topic of racial, ethnic, and cultural diversity in formerly (relatively) homogeneous societies.

This thread also provides opportunities to post hyperlinks to informative articles about this topic and hyperlinks to videos that showcase culturally diverse musicians, singers, dancers, and/or others working together.

I'll start the discussion with a link to & excerpts from an article that I read this morning thanks to another recent Mudcat thread.
Included in that article is information about multicultural efforts in Scotland.

Feel free to also post your personal experiences with multiculturalism if you'd like to do so.

Thanks in advance for your participation in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:28 AM

Here's a link to and excerpts from http://www.scotsman.com/entertainment/39We-all-have-to-defend.5638289.jp


We all have to defend the culture we love'

Date: 11 September 2009
By Sue Wilson

"NO-ONE involved with the Scottish folk scene in recent years, or the broader Celtic music scene, can fail to have been struck by the international melting-pot of influences cross-breeding with traditional tunes and rhythms, spawning their vigorous hybrid offspring.

More latterly – and likewise largely in the hands of younger musicians – the same has been true of English folk music, a progression that reached a new apotheosis last year when the singer Jim Moray featured the British-Ghanaian grime rapper Bubbz oADVERTISEMENTn his version of the classic incest/murder ballad Lucy Wan. No less significantly, that track's parent album Low Culture, Moray's third, topped the hotly contested annual critics' poll in UK scene bible fRoots, indicating that approval of such experimentation had penetrated the folk establishment further than ever before.
Our traditional music doesn't have much of an urban history until relatively recently," he points out. "It's tended to be strongest in rural areas, on the geographical fringes, where there has always been much less integration with immigrant communities, so there is an inherent conservatism there."

Nevertheless, in his capacity as artistic director of Celtic Connections, Shaw has consciously sought to broaden the festival's cultural mix – in part for pragmatic reasons of keeping the programme fresh, but also with a view to making the event more inclusive. As well as appearances by major African artists such as Baaba Maal and Youssou N'Dour, a key event in this respect was 2007's Burns Mela, a Scottish/Asian Burns Night that was specifically targeted at Glasgow's largest ethnic minority community.
"It worked really well," Shaw says. "We got about a 50:50 mix of people coming along on the night, and ever since then I've had a lot more contacts from the Asian community suggesting ideas and artists for the festival, so it's definitely opened doors longer term, too."

In a similar vein was this year's Jamaican Burns Night, somewhat ironically commemorating that near-miss by the national bard, and very aptly featuring Edward II, one of the few contemporary British folk acts whose line-up includes both black and white musicians. Originally formed in Cheltenham in 1984, they won a large following for their fusion of traditional English and Celtic sounds with reggae and African music before disbanding in 1999, and are currently enjoying a year-long reunion to mark ten years since that split."

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:29 AM

Would someone please explain what "Burn Night" is?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: maeve
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:32 AM

It's an annual celebration of Scots poet and song maker, Robert Burns, Azizi.

maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:33 AM

In my opinion, Benjamin Zephaniah's "Tam Lin (Retold)" is a very powerful example of multiculturalism.

Here's a hyperlink to that YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bIvFg5fXUM


BenjaminZephaniah
January 28, 2008

"A re-telling of the traditional folk tale Tam Lyn. Part of a project with Peter Gabriel called The Imagined Village"

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: maeve
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:33 AM

Find some more information about Burns Night
here:


maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for that information, maeve/

That makes sense. Duh.

I thought that "Burn night" had to do with a custom I vaguely remember reading on Mudcat that is centured around building a bonfire. Which custum is that? And is that only in England?

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:39 AM

A celebration of Robert Burns. His friends (18th century) started the tradition as Burns Suppers on 21 July anniversary of his death.

Later the date was changed to 25 January and expanded from being celebrated in only Ayrshire. Haggis and Scotch Whiskey figure large and some end with Céilidh.

wickipedia on Burns supper

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:41 AM

That's Burn'S Night - celebrates the life and work of Scottish poet Robert Burns (Auld Lang Syne, Comin' Through the Rye, My Love is Like a Red, Red Rose, etc., etc.). Held each year on his "birthday" (Jan. 29?). Often a bit of a celebration of all things Scottish (or not) as well - lots of tartan, bagpipes, haggis, ten-foot thick accents, Scotch, etc.

(Btw, I hope you know you're stirring up a hornet's nest - just wait till the Brits wake up - or come home from the pub - ).

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:41 AM

awww pipped at the post.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:41 AM

Here's an excerpt from a May 2009 interview with Benjamin Zephaniah in which he speaks of multiculturalism:

...[Benjamin Zephaniah] "has travelled Britain speaking to audiences of all ages and all classes; he has lived around the world — he now spends part of every year in China. He believes that anything is possible as long as people are willing to talk to each other.

When I ask him why he wanted to live in China his reasoning is clear. "It was wanting to go somewhere that I'd heard so much propaganda about and find out what it was really like. I remember when I was younger being told that Russia was our enemy, and I just got on a plane one day and went to Moscow. I wanted to see for myself. I wanted to talk to housewives and pickpockets and just everybody — and see why they hated us. And I found out that they didn't hate us, they just wanted to get on with their lives. I'll never forget talking to one woman, and saying, 'Come on, what about your bread queues' — this was in the 1980s — and she got up and brought back a picture from a newspaper and I thought it was a bread queue. I said, 'Yeah, there it is!' And she said, 'No, that's your dole queue.'

"When I got to China I found I was being challenged in really interesting ways. For instance, I always believed that everybody in China had only one child. But I kept meeting people with six children. And it's challenging being a vegan in China, like I am — but the best vegan restaurant I've come across in the world is in Beijing."

Zephaniah is no old-fashioned Marxist. He's resistant to any ideology, even multiculturalism. The problem with multiculturalism, he says, is that "it's got so tangled up with race, now, and the war on terrorism and Muslim culture, that we've forgotten that multiculturalism was in Britain a long time before black people got here. The culture in Lincolnshire was very different from the culture in Devonshire or Cheshire — and then there were the Huguenots, the Angles and the Saxons and the Celts . . . "
Lincolnshire is where he lives when he's not touring or in China. Now it's a magnet for people from Eastern Europe. "It's interesting that people talk to me about these people like I'm not a foreigner," he says. "Like, 'What do you think about all these foreigners coming and working in our fields?' You know, they're like the people of my mother's generation. My mother and her sister saw a poster advertising jobs in England — and my mother said, 'I'm going,' and her sister said, 'I won't, that country's too cold!' And that's why I'm here and my cousins are in Jamaica.

"That's happening now with people in the countryside. The Government is telling us to eat locally grown fruit and vegetables. But if it's locally grown someone has to pick it. Young kids in this country are watching television, they're watching people in bands, they are watching people working in IT, and they want some of that. When you say, 'Do you want to go and pick potatoes?' They go, 'Do I f***! No way.'

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/poetry/article6204548.ece

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:44 AM

Snork

Quick somebody start a WB Yeats night and a Dylan Thomas night thread. that'll really set em off.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:50 AM

(Btw, I hope you know you're stirring up a hornet's nest...)
-meself


Me? Stir up a hornet's nest? That doesn't even sound like me at all.

;o)

**

Seriously, I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone or a group of people with anything I've written.

I think that this is why moving toward multiculturalism can sometimes be so difficult. People might innocently walk into cultural mine fields that they have absoultely no clue exists.

But if you were serious meself, and if doesn't cause any (more?) damage, I'm curious what prompted your comment about me stirring up a hornet's nest for (with?) the British Mudcat contingent.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:51 AM

I was thinking of the whole "international melting-pot of influences cross-breeding with traditional tunes and rhythms, spawning their vigorous hybrid offspring" thing. I'm not sure it will meet with universal approbation ...

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:55 AM

BTW, thanks to all those who posted that linky to the Burns Wikipedia page.

VirginiaTam, please help a "Yankee*" out. What do Robert Burns, WB Yeats, and a Dylan Thomas have in common. Are they all Scots? (I'm embarrassed to show my ignorance). And why would that "that.. really set em off"" (Them being the British)?

* I never really though of myself as a "Yankee" before, though I have always live in the Northern part of the USA, so I guess that makes me a Yankee. Although I guess in the UK, anyone from the USA is a Yankee, right?

**

I know these comments are thread drift. But a little bit of thread drift doesn't necessarily hurt a thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:58 AM

That last was a response to VT's last - but it suits as a partial response to yours (Azizi's) as well.

What I was thinking of was the kind of heated debates we get frequently about how English folk music in particular should or should not be played. There is a broad spectrum of firmly-held and vigorously-defended opinion on the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:06 AM

Burns: Scottish. Yeats: Irish. Thomas: Welsh. All leading poets in the English language. Burns wrote a great deal in Lowland Scots dialect.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:06 AM

The custom of building a bonfire takes palce on 5 November and is a celebration of the failed plot by Guy Fawkes and other (Catholic) conspiritors to blow up the Houses of Parliament in 1605. It's still celebrated (most famously in the Sussex town of Lewes where they burn an effigy of the Pope, rather than Guy Fawkes himself)but nowadays it's often a large scale, communal/organised event. There are still plenty of bonfires and fireworks celebrations held in people's back gardens but they're (I reckon) not as common as when I was a child.

Dylan Thomas was Welsh and W.B. Yeats was Irish.

Oh, and yes all Americans are Yankees to us, but the word is usually shortened to 'Yanks.'

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:11 AM

Oh. That hornet's nest.

Well, as I often say "Different strokes for different folks".

(On second thought that may not be the best saying because what I'm applauding in this thread is different folks working together on the same project/s and thereby modeling multiculturalism).

Related to that, there's that project that recorded clips of street musicians in different part of the world performing and/or singing the same song. The messages I got from those projects are that 1. all over the world there are creative people, and 2. we are different and we are the same.


I'm having a mental blank on which songs were featured in those videos.

Could someone (or twos or threes) post the names of those songs, and any hyperlinks to the videos?

Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:15 AM

It just occurred to me that perhaps a major reason that I am all in favor of multi-cultures within a country is that I myself am a product of it. If the Amish were not accepted in the US, if they were harassed or driven out as Jews historically have been over the centuries, my own history and my very outlook would be very different.

My first language was not English, my homelife and my social life were different from others in my community; I even remember the shock I felt one day when I realized that if we all took off our clothes I would look no different from anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:22 AM

I think that this is why moving toward multiculturalism can sometimes be so difficult. People might innocently walk into cultural mine fields that they have absoultely no clue exists.
-Azizi

Terry McDonald, thanks for sharing information about Guy Fawkes bonfires and the nationality of those literary icons (all of which information perhaps I should have known, but thanks to Mudcat, I now do know.

I appreciate all the contributions of posters to this thread.

Keep'em coming!

[Though I have to ease on down the road for a while.)


*Ease

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:25 AM

without a wide diversity of different cultures I think life would be a very boring place indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:29 AM

Sorry. I was going to write that "Ease on Down The Road" is a song from the Broadway play and the movie The Wiz.

(FWIW, I liked the castand singing of the Broadway play much more than the movie.)

**

Ebbie, thanks for sharing your personal comments about multiculturalism.

Now I'm off to see the Wizard. Not really but that fit the Wizard of Oz theme.

Which reminds me, have any Mudcatters from 'the land down under' been posting to this forum lately? I'd love to "hear" from them and from New Zealanders about this topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 11:42 AM

without a wide diversity of different cultures I think life would be a very boring place indeed

kind of like flowers all the same colour and shape and songs all of the same note and tempo, eh?

Azizi

I see others have answered questions you put to me. Living in England and having taken a BA (would you like fries with that) in English, literature and education my focus, I do know a bit about the poets I mentioned.

Having said that, my fav in university was an English poet, John Milton. Love that Benjamin Zephania too.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:15 PM

Playing For Change is the project that I was thinking of which made videos of clips of musicians/singers from various nations in the world performing the same song/s.

Here's a blog entry from one of that group's performers:

"Three years ago an inspired film crew came to my house in the Mamelodi township [South Africa] and filmed me performing "One Love," "Stand By Me," and a few of my originals.

Over the past few years, this same film crew has traveled all over the world-- from the Mamelodi township, to Santa Monica, CA to Tel Aviv, to Barcelona, to Northern Ireland and back a few times filming musicians all around the world.

The result is Playing For Change, of which I'm proud to be a part. The beautiful videos and music that they have created show the power of music and the power to effect peace through music."

http://www.playingforchange.com/news/announcement


Music is a universal language that we can all understand. Visit playingforchange.com to find out about the amazing work they're doing in South Africa and throughout the world and to see the beauty of what they have brought to the world.

-Vusi Mahlasela

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

Here are two YouTube links of Playing For Change videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us-TVg40ExM

Stand By Me | Playing For Change | Song Around the World
gForChange
November 06, 2008

"From the award-winning documentary, "Playing For Change: Peace Through Music", comes the first of many "songs around the world" being released independently. Featured is a cover of the Ben E. King classic by musicians around the world adding their part to the song as it travelled the globe".

**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgWFxFg7-GU&feature=fvw

War/No More Trouble | Playing for Change | Song Around The World

layingForChange
April 23, 2009

"As we made our way around the world we encountered love, hate, rich and poor, black and white, and many different religious groups and ideologies. It became very clear that as a human race we need to transcend from the darkness to the light and music is our weapon of the future. This song around the world features musicians who have seen and overcome conflict and hatred with love and perseverance. We dont need more trouble, what we need is love. The spirit of Bob Marley always lives on.

This is the fourth Song Around The World video released from the CD/DVD Playing For Change: Songs Around The World and the follow up to the classics "Stand By Me," "One Love" and "Don't Worry." This unforgetable track was performed by musicians around the world adding their part to the song as it traveled the globe"...

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:29 PM

If I change the words to a song slightly, why should anyone care? Music is for enjoyment after all. If I sing "The Rising Of The Moon" as

"At the rising of the moon YEE HA!
At the rising of the moon
For the pikes must be together
At the rising of the moon YEE HA!"

it points out another facet of the music.

We are all, every one of us, products of a multi-cultural world. The English language, as well as all of the others, evolved from many sources. The armies that raped and plundered their way across Europe, Asia, Africa left babies in their wake; the Nations that inhabited the Americas interbred and intermarried. Cahokia had a woodhenge -- was it developed independently or were there visitors from Europe in the mid-Mississippi Valley around 1000 CE?

We are all one people, one race. There actually is no such thing as multi-culturalism -- there's only our common humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 04:45 PM

Here are links to two more Playing For The Change videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I23Bkk92124&feature=channel
Chanda Mama | Playing For Change | Song Around The World

"This Song Around The World is a folk tune from Chennai, India. We started the track in New Orleans and added musicians from the across the globe before finally delivering it the people of its origin. We ended up in Chennai recording and filming the vocals from the Oneness Choir. The track has a feeling of perseverance and joy and features vocalists from four continents"...

**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xjPODksI08&feature=channel

One Love | Playing For Change | Song Around the World

"From the award-winning documentary, "Playing For Change: Peace Through Music", comes an incredible rendition of the legendary Bob Marley song "One Love" with Keb' Mo' and Manu Chao. This is the third video from the documentary and a follow up to the classic "Stand By Me" and the incredible "Don't Worry." Released in celebration of Bob Marley's birthday on February 6th, this tribute to the legend is performed by musicians around the world adding their part to the song as it traveled the globe"...

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:45 PM

Okay... I have a question...

Should a society (ah, country... say, oh, Canada) that is tolerent of religions and freedom of worship, and respectful of human rights, and has laws in place to protect those rights, including the safety of it's citizens, be required to change it's laws and values regarding said rights and safety to accomodate those laws and values of persons who immigrate to that society?

Let's say, oh, an immigrant's religion decree's that a teenage boy should carry a killing dagger at all times, including when he attends high school classes, that being against the laws of the society he now resides in.

Should such "diversity" be accepted and "accomodated" against the values and the laws of the society?

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:50 PM

Here are two more links to Playing For Change videos:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP0P_czfguo&feature=channel

Mystery Train | Playing For Change

"Washboard Chaz and Roberto Luti combine their talents to create this New Orlean's version of the 1953 classic.

It was a hot afternoon in New Orleans when we first recorded Washboard Chaz in front of the Spotted Cat playing his version of "Mystery Train." Chaz and Roberto often played shows together and we thought Roberto's steel guitar would be a great addition to the track. Months later on a return visit to New Orleans, we recorded Roberto on a stoop in the French Quarter. Together they are the Mystery Train moving on down the tracks. "


**

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G91WCCXab1c&feature=related
Izulu | Playing For Change | Sinamuva

"Our guide while filming in Durban, South Africa and in the township of Umlazi outside of Durban was Bekhani Mamela. Bekhani turned out to be one of the most pivotal people we collaborated with during our journey. He is the choir director and founder of Sinamuva who is featured in all but one of Playing for Changes songs around the world. His arrangement on these songs brought us to tears. He, along with Sinamuva, is a pure representation of hope for all South Africans persevering darkness with music."

**

See this comment from a viewer of the "Mystery Train" video:

"Bylonzia (2 weeks ago)-"WHOA~~*CHAZ and Your Guitarpartner* I will tell about *BothOfYou* in my small multiculture country* the Netherlands* THANKS!!!!!!!"

-snip-

I join that commentor in saying "Thanks!" to "Playing for Change" for the concept and the production, and "Thanks" to all of the featured musicians/vocalists for the music.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

Let's say, oh, an immigrant's religion decree's that a teenage boy should carry a killing dagger at all times, including when he attends high school classes, that being against the laws of the society he now resides in.

Should such "diversity" be accepted and "accomodated" against the values and the laws of the society?
-gnu


gnu, my answer to your hypothetical example is "No".

Perhaps other people will respond in more detail to your question. However, right now my mood is much too mellow to respond in any depth to your legitimate question.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: gnu
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:04 PM

Okay... BTW, not so hypothetical... he stabbed another kid after the courts ruled he should be able to carry his knife.

Diversity... great! But to be stunned as me arse about it? Unacceptable.

Having said that, I have said that. gnightgnu... have fun with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 06:07 PM

Gnu, I'd expand Azizi's answer to add that the over-riding culture is the one that in the end must prevail. And in our dominant culture, the injunction has always been; Check your firearm (weapon)at the door. Common sense, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: olddude
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 07:15 PM

Ebbie
" I will give up my guitar when they pry it from my cold dead hands"

LOL


Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 08:29 PM

But to be stunned as me arse about it?

How stunned would that be?

Colourful language should surely have some kind of meaning...

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: meself
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 08:56 PM

In a Google search, I can't find anything about any student in Canada being stabbed by a kirpan (Sikh ceremonial dagger). If anyone else finds such a report, please provide a link.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 09:16 PM

I believe that the Sikhs place a very great religious significance on the kirpan and that to use it wrongly is a great sin. It is, as far as I know, drawn only very, very rarely on other than religious occasions.

With rights go responsibility. If you grant the right to carry a dagger because it is part of your religious beliefs, then you have a corresponding responsibility regarding its use -- just as you would have carrying any deadly weapon.

Having said that, remember that I contend that anything can be used as a weapon. The fact that you have the ability to kill another places upon your the responsibility not to do so except in the gravest circumstances.

But I will posit a gnu question: Suppose a culture requires cannibalism of its dead (as still is the case in some places)? Suppose religion requires ritual cannibalism of its founder? Should either be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 05:15 AM

Just back to clarify sommat. By PM, I was asked who "he" is and I must apologize for my inference that it was the lad at the centre of this controversial issue which was widely reported and discussed in Canada starting around 2002 or so.

I also just searched CBC for the incident last spring and found nothing. I recall I saw it on CBC Evening News... teenage boy, ceremonial dagger, no names or location given, police investigating. As a matter of fact, at present, I can't even say there was any blood drawn - only that I recall the knife was drawn. I shall continue to search when time permits. My memory is poor, but I know I didn't dream it.

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 06:12 AM

Sure it wasn't a Scot with a Skean Dhu?

Subject: RE: BS: Diversity In Former HomogenousSocieties
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:02 PM

Son of a pup! I cannot find it. I found lots about the court case last year, but that was, IMO, rather suspect and probably should have been taken care of without getting into court as the "victims" of the "assault" alleged the knife, while still sheathed, was "waved" and that one of them was "poked" with it, the other with a hair pin.

At this point, I must apologize PROFUSELY... and eat crow big time.

I sall now leave again... well, THIS time, slink away ashamedly with my tail between my legs.