BS: Surge This!!!...

Subject: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 07:55 PM

Ye3h, Bush, surge this, mah man!!!

Your surge is a failure...

You said the reason behind it was to provide enough security breathing room for the Maliki (Shiite) governemnt to make some political concessions to the Sunnis...

That ain't happenin'....

Quite the opposite...

All that the surge has done is turn the US into Sunni backers... Hey, ain't these the folks who used to be the enemy???

Yeah, the US has become a partner with the Sunni's (our former enemy) to stand up to the Maliki Shiites (our former friends) and for exactly what???

I don't have a clue....

All I know is that it ain't workin'... The same civil war awaits our departure regardless who we say are our friends are today...

I used to think that invading Iraq was just plain stupid... I have now had to revise my assessments downward....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 09:25 PM

Bobert--

In general what you say is true. But "the Sunnis" weren't our enemy. The Baathists--supporters of Saddam, were, you can say. But not even all of them are enemies--some just joined "the Party" in order to be employed. High-ranking Baathists are the ones we oppose. And they have been purged--but so have all the lower-ranking people--which means a large number of people are being blackballed for employment. That's one of the--many--issues which the Maliki government is to take care of. But it's not likely any time soon.

Nor is anything else--except the gradual dissolution of Iraq. Starting with "Kurdistan", which never wanted to be part of Iraq in the first place--and including Kirkuk and its oil. Then southern Iraq, mostly Shia, and seeing "Kurdistan" as a good model. So what will Maliki--or his successor actually rule?

And this will happen regardless of anything we do.

So the US will wind up in "Kurdistan"--which is fine with the Kurds, since it will deter possible rash Turkish moves--like a full-scale invasion to stamp out the PKK, the Kurdish rebels--based both in Turkey and Iraq--who have in fact killed quite a few in Turkey.

So the only question is the timeline for this--how long it will take.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 03:31 PM

the only thing the 'surge' was intended to do was to buy time for BUsh
so he can pass it on to the next administration.

and one never seriously expected to hear anything but 'the surge is working' from Petraeus including that some troops will be sent home
next year (which has to happen anyway since their time is up)

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 03:42 PM

Could Bush not Surge himself?

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 05:17 PM

Total chaos is the object...that is just enough chaos to take the oil without much fuss/killing/expense.

The problem is that Iran stands to inherit the area that 20th century Britain sketched on a map and called Iraq.

But you might think they would have forseen this eventuality.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 06:57 PM

Greed does necessarily need Intelligence to thrive...

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 07:30 PM

Well, one thing I think is fir sure and that it is no other country's interest in Middle East for Iraq to simply self-destruct...

This is why it's time for the US to get out... We are adding to the problem... We are playin' into the hands of jihadists... We need to get out now and force the Iraqis to deal with their own power struggles... We aren't solving oone thing by being there... Not one...

Time to leave... No, past time for US to leave...

The oil is gonna flow whether we are there or not... Prolly flow better without US...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:46 AM

Obama:

"I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there in fact I think it will do the reverse. I think it takes pressuire off the Iraqis to arrive at the sort of political accommodation that every observer believes is the ultimate solution to the problems we face there. So I am going to actively oppose the president's proposal I think he is wrong.

"Here's what we know. The surge has not worked. And they said today, Well, even in September, we're going to need more time. So we're going to kick this can all the way down to the next president, under the president's plan."

"So, I think it is fair to say that the president has simply tried to gain another six months to continue on the same course that he's been on for several years now. It is a course that will not succeed. It is a course that is exacting an enormous toll on the American people, enormous toll on our troops who have performed brilliantly and done everything that's been asked of them and is not making us more safe."

"Now, I had no doubt and I said at the time, when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence.

"The surge of U.S. troops has succeeded beyond our wildest dreams."

"McCain wants to ignore the first five years of the war and just talk about the last one. And that's fair, because the truth is that the violence has gone down beyond our expectations."

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM

Politics is mainly propaganda, Sawzaw. Most politicians just say whatever they think will sound good at the time, please their supporters, damage their political opponents, and make them look like they understand the situation brilliantly.

;-)

In so doing, they tell many lies, and they also lie by omission. They avoid telling the full truth about what's really going on, because people would have a fit if they did that! Hell, there'd be a revolution!

Why be surprised by any of that stuff Obama said? He IS a politician! Like Bush, McCain, and virtually all the rest of them he lies, evades, exaggerates one thing, downplays another, lies by omission, grandstands, pontificates, and dispenses propaganda. He sugarcoats a turd and calls it "candy".

It's all about getting the public to go along with some immoral effort the government is engaged in, like a war of aggression in foreign lands or like transferring the American public's wealth and their children's future into the greedy hands of a bunch of bankers and corporate CEOs.

The reason you take such particular glee in noticing Obama when he does it is simple: You never liked or supported him or his party in the first place! ;-D   You relate to him the same way as most of your erstwhile opponents here relate to Bush. He's your favorite daily political punching bag.

(And, yes, you all have plenty of reason to be angry with both Obama AND Bush....but your partisan mentality sends you haring off after the abuses of one party while paying little attention to the abuses of the other. You act as if you were blind in one eye.)

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:11 PM

Forget it, LH... You are wasting your breath...

Saws is just pissed because I don't respond to him any more... So he is raking thru any old thread I started or anything I have ever said trying to egg me into acknowledging him directly... He is menatlly ill and suffers from a severe case of OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and I am "it"... lol...

I don't give a rat's ass what the guy says... Like I have said, "He is mentally ill"...

Next???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 03:14 PM

Why would Obama flip flop from the surge won't work to not working to working to it worked?

I beleive Obama when he says the surge worked. First he believed it would not work, then he believed it was not working but then he found out it worked. I agree.

Is Bobert saying he is lying? If so then why bother calling Bush a liar and ignore what Obama says? Could it be you are covering up for Obama? Playing tribal politics? What is Bobert's verdict on Obama's surge in Afghanistan?

I really don't care if Bobert doesn't give a rat's ass what I say. He can keep his rats asses all to himself. Why does he spend so much time and waste his breath bullying me with his personal attacks?

OWwww, OHhhh, it hurts like hell when Bobert does not respond. He keeps calling me crazy in his non responses and it really bothers me.

To my more sensible friend LH: I do not deny that "You never liked or supported him or his party in the first place! "

But I also knew that it was inevitable that he would be elected and I did not oppose it, I also believed that as the president he should not be torn apart immediately and should be given a chance to improve things. I go out of my way to state when I agree with him.

I was hoping for a change. He has not improved anything and has only made things worse for the most part. I am not going to condemn everything he has done or praise everything he has done as those who are captives of tribal politics must do.

If you think he has made anything better, please elaborate. Being in Canada you would have a less biased opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 03:50 PM

Fair enough, Sawzaw. ;-)

Yes, it was inevitable that Obama would be elected as soon as the financial meltdown began in 2008. McCain was dead meat from that point on.

I had also hoped that Obama might turn out to be a change for the better, and I was really pleased to see him get elected. For one thing, it might finally put to rest the idea that it's simply impossible for a "Black man" (actually mixed race) to be elected president...and that the world would end if it ever happened! ;-)

But that's a minor point.

What I really hoped was that Obama would stop fighting foreign wars, bring American troops home, establish far better relations with other nations, and improve the domestic scene in the USA.

He's done none of that. He's likable, he's a great speaker, he's a very smart guy, but he has not done any of the things I'd hoped he would do.

I am tremendously disappointed in Mr Obama.

I think the general feeling in Canada about him is...people mostly like him, they like him a lot better than they did Bush, but they see him as a weak president who is not delivering on his promises and apparently isn't able to for some reason. So he's still relatively popular here (and in Europe), but people don't get why he is not acting on the mandate that he was given by the people who elected him.

Has he made anything better? Ummm....wait....ummmm....gee, well...

Gosh, this is a tough one to answer! ;-D

I guess if you're at the top in the private health insurance industry or the banking system or the defense industry...yeah...but I'm not. I think those people are less than 1% of the population, aren't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 04:14 PM

"it might finally put to rest the idea that it's simply impossible for a "Black man" (actually mixed race) to be elected president...and that the world would end if it ever happened"

Me too LH but I believe there are forces at work that capitalize on racism and do not want it to go away. They use race warfare, victimhood, class warfare to their advantage.

I also believe that the healthcare insurers and providers profit more from the "affordable health care act". Their lobbyists were hired to write the bill.

Now that we have agreed on a few things we will be called evil stupid crazy whatever, to counter act our ideas.

There is a great deal we disagree on but what matters most is what people agree on. That leads to peace and harmony but others want to constantly bitch and moan and argue as if that makes the world better.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 05:05 PM

Well said. The vital thing for people to do if they want to achieve something positive is to look for what things they have in common with other people. They have many things in common.

The healthy mind looks for what it has in common with someone else, and it finds a great deal. That way lies friendship and good communication.

The unhealthy mind looks first (and often only) for what is different about someone else, finds just a few things, and prepares to either have an argument or fight a war over them...ignoring the many, many much more meaningful things the two have in common.

You're quite right that there are forces at work today which capitalize on racism and do not want it to go away. They likewise capitalize on gender-based conflict, nationalism of an aggresssive sort, victimhood, class warfare, every sort of division, resentment and fear. They use it to motivate people into supporting wars, and they use it to get themselves elected and to hold power. It's the classic age-old game of divide and conquer, played by a few powerful men on billions of reactive people, and it's happening all over the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 01:43 AM

I'm gonna cry any minute now man ;D

This battle between Fox News MSNBC. Limbaugh, Glen Beck etc. is driven by profit motive. Look at the money these guys make. Buy my book or tune me in and I will tell you all the crap you want to hear. They want people polarized so they can make money. They say when party X says that, what they really mean is this, as if you are to dumb to figure it out yourself and you need them to interpret for you.

Fox and MSNBC is out of my Satellite package now and I listen to rock Boomer music on the radio. CCR Stones etc. and boy do I feel better. For news I watch MHZ networks on Digital broadcast TV that carries 10 news channels in one including Aljazeera TV which is so amazingly unbiased. Even Hillary says it is real news.

You just have to read all the sides on a particular issue and determine the truth yourself. You just can't blindly follow what one side says or believe that one leader cannot possibly do anything wrong and another can't do anything right. That logic is flawed right on the face of it. It's a false dichotomy like when GW Bush said "You are either with us or with the terrorists"

Dang, you can be willing to help out without turning into Rambo. And you can be against what he wants to do without being chained to an oil thank in Baghdad.

Everybody has flaws and makes mistakes. But yet tribal politics dictate that your tribe must support everything your "Leader" does and never mention any flaws or mistakes. Likewise the tribe must also put down anything the leader of the other tribe does and says whether they believe it is right or wrong.

I think it is a manifestation of a feeling of insecurity.

Damn I am glad I am not caught up that mind set. I believe there are a lot of people who don't want to be committed to one party or the other so they can decide things for themselves. They can think independently.

Same way with religion. I am not religious but I am also not anti-religious. I can get along with either.

The tribes can't. For them, someone is all bad or all good. Life is a whole lot simpler when you lose the need for allegiance to a certain tribe.

NPR's Problem Is Personal, Not Political: So says George Will.

We learned this week redundantly that NPR is run by people who don't like people like me. Which is fine.

If you listen to the video, you will hear the others chuckling at Will's line. They don't rush to deny what he said, that the people at NPR do not like conservatives. Which is just as well, because what he said is true. (Significantly, they tend to dislike conservatives who happen to be women or blacks even more than they dislike white male conservatives like George Will.)

And that explains much of what is wrong with NPR, and our politics generally. Too often we are making decisions, not on what is best for the nation or the world, but on who we like and, even more, who we dislike.

This tribal politics is natural, about as natural as politics can be. But it is also, quite often, destructive. We line up on one side or another, because of who we dislike, without even bothering to study an issue.

Tribal politics often leads us to absurd positions. For example, the Seattle Times editorial board has been arguing for a "reset" in our state, by which they mean but do not say following the prudent budget policies our state's Republicans have been pushing for years. But the Times often endorses the very Democrats who have caused the problems because, for cultural reasons (especially abortion), the editorial board just doesn't like many Republicans.

(Please note that I did not say and do not believe that this tribal politics is found only on one side. But I do think that it is more of a problem on the left, because so many of our journalists are infected by it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:36 PM

It's a huge problem on both sides of the political divide. I'm not sure which side it's a worse problem on, but there is an absolute epidemic of tribalism happening out there these days, much of it driven by special interest groups and power groups in the political scene: ("Our side ALL right, their side ALL wrong, our people ALL good, their people ALL evil").

It's incredibly stupid, utterly predictable, and it plays into the hands of demagogues. Caveman thinking, I call it.

Like you, Sawzaw, I do not belong to any organized religion...nor am I anti-religious. I can get along with either possibility, religious or not religious. I belong to no religious or anti-religious tribal mindset. That leaves me free to relate positively to a great variety of beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 11:56 PM

George Will is likable to npr fans when he talks about baseball. He is even well liked when he has written about the abject ignorance of the Tea Party types. My neighbor purchased his used Cadillac DTS and they like both him and the car, until the wife totaled the car.
Furthermore George Will is not a tribal political commentator. he is more of an independent shill for hire who insists upon his own final copy approval.

I don't think you know George at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:16 PM

If you knew George...like I know George....Oh! Oh! Oh, what a guy!   ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:02 PM

Does Donuel belong to a tribe?

Does he have the ability to look at two opposing groups and pick out the ideas he is in agreement with on both sides?

Or does he merely find things he disagrees on and keeps whining about them while ignoring things he agrees on?

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 04:39 PM

Where is the budget surge? The "surge" cost billions of $$$ but the budget is purged.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 04:49 PM

If ceratin Americans have been tribalized, LH, it was because some rich people spent hundreds of millions of $$$ to hire community organizers, rent offices, hire staff, rent buses and go out and find the looniest conspiracy theorists out there to operate as their pawns to fight off government regulations that prevent these war lords from poisoning our water, ripping us off for health insurance, polluting our air and gaming our system...

Don't confuse the rabid right with everyone else... There is nothing that comes even close to them anywhere else in this country...

I mean, the "Both Sides Boogie" is getting very tiresome and worn the heck out... I mean, saying it over and over and over ain't nuthing more than Tea Party-speak... Their goal is to have as many people singing that song as they can gdet so that when they threaten "2nd amendment" remedies that they have plenty of ***cover*** with folks saying, "Now both of you behave..."

You logic is flawed here, LH... No one on the left is suggesting shooting people... Get over it... Might of fact, no one on the left is using any of the thug tatcics we are seeing on the loonie right...

That is reality...

Loose the song...

"It was a new day yesterday, it's an old day now"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:36 PM

Jethro Tull? From Bobert? Way cool dude.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:46 PM

I am simply suggesting creative and individual thought outside the party box, Bobert, as opposed to gathering in contempt-spewing gangs of the righteously like-minded, bandying about gross stereotypes about your opponents, and parroting standard party line.

I am NOT suggesting that the Right in America is morally equivalent to the Left! Nor am I neutral! I think the Right is considerably worse in America than the Left is, and always has been...I AM a leftist... but I like to see people actually think independently and fairly rather than just engage in vicious partisan witchhunts against anyone they think is on "the other side".

And I will not pardon the Left for doing it just because the Right does it too, and sometimes does it in a worse fashion.

You see, Bobert, if you think that YOUR side are lily-white just because you're not THEM....then you're making the same error that they are. In religion it is called "the sin of self-righteousness".

I am suggesting that you see your opponents as complex human beings who, just like you, want liberty, freedom, fairness, and justice...but because of their particular background don't understand that you do too...and don't come up with the same rationale for how to get there.

Mutual respect, in other words. If you're not capable of giving that to people you disagree with about politics or anything else, then how would you expect to ever resolve anything with people who see things differently?

Without mutual respect between political opponents the only possibility left is open war. If that's what you want, I don't think it will lead you anywhere you really would wish to go.

If your excuse is that "Well, but they don't respect me", then I say that a bridge can only be started by the man who is willing to lay down the first plank. And the next plank. And however many planks it takes after that.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:13 PM

You nailed it LH

Big tent approach shows the limitations of tribal politics

Gordon Brown has always sought, and relished, the endorsement of prominent figures outside the Labour Government and politics. This has been seen as conferring a sense of legitimacy which the conventional political process does not.....
....Similarly, Mr Brown has liked to be seen publicly with respected figures such as Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the US Federal Reserve and now an adviser to him, as well as with Bill Gates of Microsoft.

The implicit assumption has been that such figures add weight to Mr Brown by transcending adversarial politics. This is meant to overcome the widespread public mistrust of party politicians. Big tent politics also practiced by David Cameron is a recognition of the limits of tribal politics.

So who wants to join LH and I in some big tent politics?

Amos. Where you at? Are you just lurking nowdays? Do you want to join in or do you feel a certain loyalty to your tribe? Do you feel like you have to disagree with ideas you really agree with just out of loyalty? Get it out man. Come out of the closet. Quit hiding it. I know you are a reasonable man.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:14 PM

You got it all wrong, LH... The fucking Tea Party is like signaled that it wants to go to war with the other 90% of American who are Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Bull Mooosers, Greenies, etc...

That is OUR reality...

Ain't about my side, LH... Its about OUR country... Hey, I am realist enough to know that life involves diologue and discussion and facts and compromise... I am one of the 90% threatened by some assholes who have been put into power by some ***VERY*** rich people who want to not only get much richer but also want to position themselves as the warlords who tell the government what to do...

You got it so wrong in playing that that "Can's ya'll get along" card... That is propaganda... You, of all people should see what is going on here but you are blinded by your "Lets' see if we can work this out"... You cannot work things out with people intent on ***ruling*** you and think they have the firepower to do just that...

I love you, LH, but you have a seriously messed up way of looking just where the United States finds itself... You see it as some game that can be won with intelligence, logic and caring for the folks who are out to bury you...

You are the guy in the Moya painting who is about to be shot thru the fucking head...

Wrong as wrong can be!!! Dead as dead can be...

But he died with glory... Great... Another martyr with his papers in order...

You may be ready to stand up and say "Can't we just get along" and have Boss Hog blow you away in the streets...

I ain't...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 07:54 PM

So...how exactly are you planning to defend yourself against the vile heathens, Bobert? The "flat Earthers". The "knuckledraggers". The people named "Bubba". ;-) Got any ammunition stored up yet? Will I be seeing headlines about a Bobert rampage in Wes Ginny one of these days, heaps of dead rednecks and NASCAR watchers moved down by the hillbilly avenger?

The ordinary people in the Tea Party (meaning its general public membership) think it's "OUR" country too, "OURS" to defend and save (the very words they would put it). They think they're fighting for America too, just like you do. And they fear you just as much as you fear them. You're imitating each other's basic error like a mirror image...you're both working FROM fear.

That doesn't produce any kind of good result.

Remember what FDR said about that? "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." I don't necessarily agree with everything FDR said or did, but he spoke some good words that time.

Society is changed for the better by love, not by fear and hatred.

Don't you think Mr Obama would agree with me when I say that?

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:23 PM

I'm defending myself by confronting people, not only here but elsewhere, who have fallen into Koch-speak... You are parroting phrases that have been tested before control groups by the Koch-ies to see what sticks...

No, it is no longer about getting along.... It ain't about saying both sides, blah, blah, blah... It's 100% about what propaganda has been sufficiently lubricated to stick in the heads of otherwise reasonable people...

I know exactly what FDR said and what he meant...

At the time he said it there wasn't the vast amount of wealth that could be corralled and greedy people wanting more, more, more... And willing to do whatever is necessary to get more, more, more...

So what I do is bounce from one joint the next and call on people to get a ***second opinion*** on the language they use, the phrases they throw out without really giving those words any thought... Yes, the Koch brothers PR people borrowed from the old Nader stuff thinking they could use those "classless and free" words palatable and ready for consumption by the ol' "classless and free" folks... Very good PR $$$ spent... I hear good meaning folks parroting this same song over and over and so my job is to cut thru the propaganda and offer an alternate view...

So what can I do??? Getting shot in the streets like the guy in the Goya painting ain't for me... Calling ***good*** people who might not be award of what shit has been stuffed into them is what I can do...

And so that is what I am doing... A lot less here then other places but I am fighting for my country... My way... Screw getting shot... That is for martyrs... I'm not a martyr... I am a fighter...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:33 PM

Hey, well, you do it whatever way works for you, Bobert. I'm not giving you advice on how to engage in street-level political action in your town. I'm giving you advice on how to talk to other human beings on an internet forum. ;-) This one. What I mean is, talk to them like you think they ARE human beings instead of like you think they're some kind of subhuman idiots. I mean the people you're actually talking to HERE one-on-one, such as Sawzaw, DougR, pdq, etc.

I agree with you that the problem is that the most wealthy 1% are hijacking your government for their own financial gain. Hell, it's happening here in Canada too. And in the UK. And in many other places. And it's been happening for quite some time. But it's worse in the USA. If I was there, I think I'd move somewhere else. Seriously. If I could.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 08:55 PM

Sorry that I have to use a little shock 'n awe of my own, LH... These days it takes shock 'n awe to get some folks attention... Especially those who are well meaning but are using phrases and concepts that have been ***placed*** gently into the heads of well-meaning folks by folks who want to rule everyone else...

If I do my Melba Milk Toast, "Awww, can't we just get along" then I am not going to get ***you*** to think and it's folks like you who can make a difference if you understand that the phrases and concepts you put forward are counter-productive to a pro-human, pro-earth world...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:40 PM

I didn't read any of those long posts. I am just freaked that Bobert quoted Tull.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:45 PM

He did?

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 10:04 PM

Sheet fire, gn-ze... My 60's rock band did the song... I think that at some point in time I've done every song that has ever been written...

Except Bobby Goldsboro's "Honey"....

LOL...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 03:25 AM

"The fucking Tea Party is like signaled that it wants to go to war with the other 90% of American who are Republicans, Democrats, Independents, Bull Mooosers, Greenies, etc"

This is your reality Bobert. Not "ours" or mine. Everybody can decide their own reality without your fearmongering and hatemongering.

Come on inside the tent Bobert. It is beautiful in here. It is just like you want the world to be with peace and brotherhood. Check your hostilities at the door.

Don't just stand around outside yelling kill, hate, Ni***r, buy guns. Destroy people who you don't agree with. People inside can't hear your screams of agony because you don't fit into the crowd anymore.

We got the Blues Brothers in the tent here just like the movie man, with James Brown, BB & Aretha. Nobody in here talkin' about hatin' and killin'. It is spiritual in here with all the peace and love. You will like it. We even have Chongo's Riverdancers in here.

You can even sneak a little reefer in here if you keep quiet about it. You can get a little boozed too as long as you get some legal booze for a change but chances are you won't need the booze or reefer when you drop the hate and pick up on the mutual respect and peace inside the big tent.

I mean nobody here in the tent wants to bomb Canada now that we have found some common ground and mutual respect.

So come on in Bobert. You will be glad you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 01:45 PM

one of the great achievements of this administration

"The surge isn’t going to work either tactically or strategically. Tactically it isn’t going to work because our guys go in and secure a neighborhood, but because we don’t have enough troops, we have to turn it over to the Iraqis, and they can’t hold it or won’t hold it." Joe Biden

"It’s an attempt to save the president from making a significant mistake with regard to our policy in Iraq." Joe Biden

"I believe it will have the opposite, I repeat, opposite effect the president intends." Joe Biden

"I really respect him [Petraeus] , but I think he's dead flat wrong," Joe Biden

"The purpose of the surge was to bring violence in Iraq down so that its leaders could come together politically. Violence has come down, but the Iraqis have not come together. There is little evidence the Iraqis will settle their differences peacefully any time soon." Joe Biden

"I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences" Joe Biden

"I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government. " Joe Biden

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: gnu
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

"fearmongering and hatemongering"

I thought that is what the Repub's were doing? Along with screwing over the poor and those on fixed incomes and the gov't employees and, well, everybody, in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 04:53 PM

"Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly"

US President Barack Obama has ordered 30,000 more US troops to Afghanistan but warned America would begin to withdraw its military forces by 2011.

Soldiers will be deployed as quickly as possible, bringing US troop strength in the country to more than 100,000.

World security was at stake, Mr Obama said, calling for more allied troops.

The mission in Afghanistan, he added, was to defeat al-Qaeda, reverse the Taliban's momentum and deny them the ability to overthrow the government.

Mr Obama reached his deployment decision after more than three months of deliberations and 10 top-level meetings with advisers.

Gen Stanley McChrystal, the US commander in Afghanistan, welcomed the speech, saying he had been given "a clear military mission" and the necessary resources.

Some 32,000 other foreign troops are serving in Afghanistan but Nato allies have been cautious about further contributions.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen urged members to do more. He told reporters on Wednesday that 5,000 extra troops would be sent in 2010, and "probably" a few thousand in addition.

"This is our fight together," he said. "We must finish it together."

The Afghan government said it supported the new US strategy.

Foreign Minister Rangin Dadfar Spanta said that with international help Afghanistan's armed forces would be able to start taking responsibility for security in 18 months.


There was plenty designed to reassure those who were worried about what is, after all, a massive escalation However the BBC's Ian Pannell in Kabul says there is concern that putting a date on a US withdrawal sends the wrong signal and risks giving encouragement to the Taliban.

In his speech, Mr Obama celebrated the US as a nation "founded in resistance to oppression" and talked about its long record of sacrifice in "advancing frontiers of human liberty" promised an "effective partnership" with Pakistan, and warned that the US could not "tolerate a safe haven for terrorists " repeatedly cited the poor economy and stated that the estimated cost - $30bn for the US military this year - was a factor in his deliberations .

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: gnu
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 05:01 PM

So, what's yer point? Could you at least date that and provide the source and... sigh... what's the sense in asking?

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: GUEST,MarkS(on the road)
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 11:15 PM

Hey Catters!

Lets have some fun. Just fill in the blank below!


"I think that at some point in time I've done every song that has ever been written..."

Hey Bobert

Can you post a link to your cover of _________________________.

This place is getting wAAAAy too serious. Time to lighten up.

Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 11 - 11:35 PM

And here I thought this was a thread about the surge which took out Mudcat over the weekend.

Don't you guys ever get tired of this shite?

Indeed, have some fun and go listen to the Rogue's March and the "Constitution March" done by the People's Conspiracy jug band!

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:20 PM

All too funny...

I don't know what Mark is saying but it must have something to do with something that Saws wrote... I don't read Saws so I missed it...

As for doing songs??? I donno, maybe I missed more than the Goldboro epic... lol... Lotta of them ain't worth playin' but I was thinking last night of some of the dumb songs I have done and "Jesus, Kick Me Thru the Goalposts of Life" came to mind... lol... Think it was a Bobby Bear song but can't remember...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Surge This!!!...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 05:02 PM

The whole notion of the surge will be made more incoherent when Obama decides to leave troops in Iraq and Muqtada al Sadr decides to wage civil war against the US in Iraq as a result.

Get ready for another quagmire and place bets on which is the longer war, Afghanistan or Iraq.