BS: Prostate cancer

Subject: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,A guy.
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:09 AM

Anyone dealt with it? Prospectus regarding recovery? What to expect? Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: mooman
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:25 AM

Dear Guest,

There is some good information here

In general the treatment options and prognosis has improved in recent years. I'm not a sufferer myself but have yearly checks and, working in the medical technology sector, try to keep up with developments.

It is essential for someone who thinks they may have a problem to seek the best possible professional medical advice.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: kendall
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 10:29 AM

Prostate cancer can be slowed down or even stopped by daily doses of Zinc and saw palmetto. Too bad most men don't know this.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:14 AM

Here's an article on saw palmetto in the UC Berkley Wellness Letter. Aside from saying that saw palmetto may be effective [in treating benign prostatic hyperplasia, NOT CANCER!!!], they give this warning:

"Remember this: A 90-day supply of finasteride costs about $200, compared with $10 to $50 for a 90-day supply of saw palmetto. Fewer side effects (such as erectile dysfunction) are reported with saw palmetto than with drugs, at least in studies so far. Not much is known about the long-term effects of saw palmetto. If you want to try it, do so only after seeing a doctor. If you have prostate symptoms and dose yourself without a diagnosis, and it turns out to be cancer, you may not find out until it is at an incurable stage. Be aware that herbal remedies are not regulated or standardized: you may be getting what the label says, or you may not."

The advice seems to be to take it, but see a doctor and make sure the doctor knows you're taking it.

I wouldn't ordinarily get involved about discussions about prostates because I don't have one, but when it comes to advice that could possibly kill you if you fail to question it and do further research, I'm in.

Kendall will shortly provide citations, I'm sure, and my comments will be moot.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:14 AM

I was diagnosed with porostate cancer at Mayo clinic in 1997.---(That was when they also found I've had MS since around 1980.) The cancer is early and quite slow growing. We are watching close!! I do a PSA blood test every six months. So far, very low readings. No signs of growth.

All the best to you,

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Alan Day
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:35 AM

I have currently gone through all the tests associated with Prostate Cancer.I had all the signs of this disease,constant peeing etc.
I attended the clinic and saw the specialist on many occasions with the blood count fluctuating from very high to quite low.For those that do not know,most cases of prostate cancer the reading is high.Eventually the stand in specialist decided that I had to have a
Biopsey.This involves taking samples from your rectum area of the possible infected area."Do not worry Mr Day we have given you an injection in the area to ease the pain".They lied it was like having a number of teeth extracted from the bum.
The test turned out to be negative, so many of you who think you have cancer(like I did) have not.What my problem is,is that I have an enlarged prostate which is blocking the neck of the bladder so I do not empty my bladder properly.This next phase and operation is to come.I hope these details help some of you who are worrying for no reason.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 11:54 AM

Same site, different page (on zinc):

"The findings about zinc and cancer have been contradictory. As we reported in November 2003, a study at the National Cancer Institute did find that men who took more than 100 milligrams of zinc a day were twice as likely to develop advanced prostate cancer, especially if they had taken it for 10 years or more, compared with those who took no zinc."

Kendall, I didn't mean to jump on you. I meant to jump on what you wrote...with both feet. 99 out of 100 people will do their own research and aren't gullible. It's the possibility of one guy who trusts what you wrote, exactly as you wrote it, and winds up with a death sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: kendall
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:03 PM

What I know for sure is this:
10 years ago my doctor told me that I had an enlarged prostate. Shortly afterwards I discovered zinc and saw palmetto. The next exam and all exams since have shown no signs of enlargement.
I certainly don't want to spread false information, but is there an explanation for what happened to me?
You didn't jump on me; if I'm wrong I want to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 12:22 PM

You had an enlarged prostate, not prostate cancer.
The artcle [my interpretation] said saw palmetto is likely effective in treating prostate enlargement. Not cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Auggie
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 02:48 PM

Scares the crap out of you at first, doesn't it, Guest Guy? I know the feeling. I was diagnosed in Dec of 2000 with stage 2 prostate cancer.

If you've done your homework you know there are three common treatment options, surgery, radiation, and hormone therapy.
Which one is best for you depends on the stage of your disease and your age and general health. Watchful waiting is a fourth option, one usually reserved for older (ouch! Sorry Art!) patients or less agressive tumors.

I had a radical prostatectomy (the surgery). I looked until I found a really good, really experienced surgeon, who got me through with no incontinence problems at all. He was also able to leave the nerves which control erections; even so, it took about a year and a half for that to return to normal. I was off work about 4 wks. tho I probably could have gone back sooner. I'm not tough, but 99% of the ordeal, including the surgery, didn't hurt all that much.

The National Cancer Institute has a lot of good info on their web site at
Prostate Cancer Blue Clicky




If you'd like, PM me. Life can be good afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Deckman
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 03:48 PM

I'll jump in here to relate my own experiences in the hope of spreading some useful information:

When "Bride Judy" and I married over ten years ago, I decided that I should be a responsible adult (a new experience for me) and provide life insurance for her. Because of my age, a health exam was required. My G.P is a very long and trusted friend, as well as a damned good banjo player. Part of the exam was a "PSA" blood test.

My numbers were 22, as I recall. Normal range the doctors want is 2 to 4, I think. The insurance underwriter, DAMN THEIR MERCENARY SOULS, would not give me insurance unless I went through a prostate bi-opsy exam.

My G.P. tried to talk me out of doing the bi-opsy, as he thought it was not worth the risk of infection from the test itself. But ... I couldn't get insurance without the test ...DAMN INSURANCE COMPANIES!!! The ONLY concern they have is dollars.

As someone else mentioned, it was painfull, in the extreme. My test results were negative.

Since then, I've also been taking Saw Palmento pills, I buy them at the local health store. I get my blood work done every year. Last test, my PSA was 1.5.

I hope that this story helps those interested in this problem. Feel free to PM me with any questions and I'll only be to happy to answer as you best I can. CHEERS, Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 04:36 PM

Missed diagnoses are made for this and other diseases all the time. Sadly, it takes a huge amount of time, money and MANY excruciatingly thorough tests to get the real answers.

Keep in mind, if you eat a poison ivy pizza, and then have a reduction in size of your prostate, you could easily assume that Poison Ivy Pizza cured the problem. You go on Oprah's show and say that. Soon, everyone wants that kind of pizza. Pizza Hut puts it on the menu and makes a bundle. THEN the tales begin about those who ate poison Ivy Pizza who got the disease too and then died from their prostate cancer anyhow.

People, there is a whole lot of very questionable and erroneous alternative medicine info ideas running rampant out there. Be realistic and see clearly that sometimes we are too quick to grasp at straws. Go with the ones who are doing the real research for the best leads. And then proceed from there...

My prostate cancer was only found when, after a slew of spinal surgeries over nearly ten years, while in hospital for another spinal surgery, I had a major MS exacerbation. Only then did any doctor think of possible MS as the reason for the same symptoms I had the surgeries for!

Back to the cancer! While in the hospital for two months that time, my urination slowed down more. I had a T.U.R.P. almost as an afterthought, to relieve those enlarged prostate symptoms. A routine check of the pieces left over after surgery found the cancer. Guess I was a lucky guy to've had all those maybe unnecessary neck vert fusions!? They led to the cancer diagnosis. ;-)

BUT now I've got a very itchy bowel track!!!!!

Any ideas on how I can scratch ??

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Deckman
Date: 01 Sep 05 - 04:41 PM

Art ... a very long bamboo back scratcher? Naw ... probably not a good idea. Just trying to help ... sorta! Best wishes, Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: BK Lick
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 05:04 AM

This site is far and away the best source of prostate cancer information I've seen. Don't let yourself be rushed into treatment—take the time to educate yourself about what the various treatment modalities are and decide which one is right for you.

—BK

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 07:49 AM

FWIW
PSA blood test was originally about 60/70% reliable, however they found that abstaining from sex for 24 hours prior improves the figure to 85%.

There is a better test (alleged by patentees) that compares the ratio of the two types of antigen (they claim). reliability of 95% is claimed. I am not sure how commonly available this test is. Reported in New Scientist 1 - 2 years ago.

The PSA test is not at it's best used on it's own. It is an indicator.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: mooman
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 09:38 AM

My tests now involve the PSA plus use of an "insertable" ultrasound "device" (I was worried what the condoms were for on the table at first and was ready to "repel" the urologist until all was explained). I prefer this to the previous method.

I am 53 and my prostate has enlarged by about 40% from its youthful size. Perfectly normal I am assured but I take the annual test (also a colonoscopy as that problem runs in the family).

Getting old's a bit of a pain in the bum really!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 10:17 AM

A statistic I have is that 70% of men die with prostate cancer.

Not very encouraging, except that it goes on to say that they die WITH it, but not OF it. In other words, more men get it than don't, but in most cases it is not life threatening and they die of something else instead.

I don't really know why that makes me feel better.

cheers, Terry

p.s. a very great man once said that 83.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 05 - 06:43 PM

But only 73.9% of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 05:33 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 06:42 PM

All 4 people I know who had it have fully recovered.

I heard of a sonic scalpel that has been effective as well as the radiation seeds placed where most needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,A guy
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 07:55 PM

Thank y'all very much for your responses. Thank y'all too for sharing your personal experiences with so personal a matter. (I may take you up on that offer, Auggie.)

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: gnu
Date: 03 Sep 05 - 08:04 PM

I hope this is not the end of this thread. I, for one, would like to know how things go for you and I also send my thoughts and prayers to you. This thread will benefit many 'Catters... now... and in the future.

Please keep us informed.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Barb'ry
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:35 PM

If you want anything explaining or any information etc, pm me. My husband is a (relatively) tame oncologist and would be happy to 'chat' if it would help.
Good luck
Barb'ry

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:47 PM

All men over 50 should have either a blood test or the fickle finger up the you know where every 2 years.That at least tells you your
position regarding this disease

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Peace
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 06:53 PM

Good advice, GUEST. However, I recently found out that it's better to have BOTH. One will sometimes catch what the other misses. The Prostate-Specific Antigen test is, as you know, blood work. The ol' finger reaches waaaay inside and feels the prostate for hardening, size, etc. I had thought one or the other was OK. My doctor told me what I have related above.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,A guy
Date: 06 Sep 05 - 08:46 PM

Thank you all for your encouragement and offers to talk. I appreciate that. I'll know by the end of September and then if I require some advice I will definitely be in touch with a few individuals.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 06:12 PM

Here you go, Guest Guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 07:13 PM

Thank you all for your advice and kind words. I appreciate them (and you) very much. Thanks for finding the thread, Ebbie, and to WYSIWYG for linking to this on the other thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 10:50 AM

Had it. Had radioactive seed implantation. Five years ago--it went away.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 11:34 AM

As I said, I've got it. Am having a PSA every 6 months. Slow growing I've been informed. We're waiting and watching close. Diagnosed in 1997---no sign of it since.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: danensis
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 02:12 PM

Take a look at Stanford Researcher Declares 'PSA Era is Over'

before considering the PSA as a good indicator.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 03:23 PM

The article is discussing the PSA test as a diagnostic tool. In Art's situation the PSA test is being used to monitor the effectiveness of treatment and or the state of remission of the cancer, an application that is quite different than the one in the article.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: danensis
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:27 PM

But if people can have high levels of PSA and not have cancer, what is it indicating?

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:32 PM

An increase in PSA is caused by hyperplasia which is an abnormal increase in the number of cells in an organ or a tissue with consequent enlargement. This may or may not be cancer.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 05:51 PM

Speaking as a 53 yr old prostate cancer survivor, I for one am overjoyed that Stanford researcher Thomas Stramey, MD is not MY personal physician. By Stramey's current standards I would not even have been a candidate for the biopsy which showed moderately agressive cancer in all 11 of 11 different prostate sites sampled. Just let it grow, I guess, till I'm off with Dan Fogelburg.

I was beginning to wonder which insurance company might have,just perhaps, (in the all- holy name of cost containment) put the good Dr. in its pocket (my little episode ran my insurance company roughly $28,000),
when I ran across this site Recent Discovery Contracts which dispelled any notions of that sort . Please note the last sentance of the 1st paragraph.

It seems the good Dr. has a new test for prostate cancer in the works, one in which he just happens to have a joint owenership of the " world-wide exclusive license for commercialization".

What a lovely coincidence for him. Just as he becomes the joint owner of a new test, he discovers the PSA-era is over.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:04 PM

The rationale against the PSA test I've heard is that although a large number of men will get prostate cancer a majority of them will die of other causes because most prostate cancers are slow growing. Therefore the insurance companies and government health plans try to discourage men having the test done because if they discover they have cancer they will demand treatment and this will be a financial strain on the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:45 PM

"Strain on the system"?

Don't you mean less profit for the republican fat cats who own these blood sucking corporations?

Basically what they're saying is "if we dont look, we wont find it and then we wont have to pay anything, and for those of you who will die of it, well, to damn bad but thats the price you pay for keeping "financial stain on the system" to a minimum.

Seems to me to be just a different sort of "collerateral damage".

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Peace
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:47 PM

Some sites I read say that about 32,000 North Americans will die from prostate cancer this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 06:59 PM

I don't mean to sound rude, Bobad, but without a PSA my cancer, which was a Gleeson 6 (moderately agressive) would not have been detected for years. Would it have metastisized by then? Who knows for sure, but do I want to run that risk so that I can save a for-profit corporation (insurance company) some overhead. I don't know man, I haven't seen too many of 'em going belly up lately, even with the "financial strain" of early detection, so my answer is a decidedly loud no.

Are there alot of false positives? You bet there are. Should guys over 65 with Gleeson grade 2 non-aggressive tumors have potentially debilitating surgery? Well, I wouldn't, but let the patient decide, not the insurance company executive.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: bobad
Date: 19 Nov 05 - 08:50 PM

Guest, I think you misunderstood me in that I am only relating the rationale, not agreeing with it, in fact I would recommend every male over 40 to have regular PSA's even if they have to pay for them. If your PSA comes in high you can then get a more diagnostic test which measures the bound and free PSA and can distingush more accurately between cancer and hyperplasia due to other causes. If that indicates a possibility of cancer then a biopsy should be undertaken.

I say screw the insurance companies and the government health systems and take responsibility for your own health and do what you feel is in your own best interest.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: bobad
Date: 24 Feb 06 - 10:26 PM

Link Found Between Virus and Prostate Cancer
By Thomas H. Maugh II, Times Staff Writer
2:16 PM PST,February 24 2006

Researchers have found a previously unknown virus in some men with prostate cancer, a discovery that could open doorways to understanding and treatment of the disease, the most common type of cancer among men.

The discoverers do not know exactly why the virus is present in the men, but "there is now a suggestion that prostate cancer could be caused by an infectious disease," said Dr. Eric Klein of the Cleveland Clinic, who reported the discovery today at a prostate cancer symposium in San Francisco.

The virus is 96% identical to a virus that is normally found in the genome of mice. The researchers do not believe that it is routinely transmitted from mice to humans, but rather that it jumped species in the past and is now transmitted from human to human through an unknown mechanism.

The virus was discovered using Virochip technology developed by Dr. Don Ganem and geneticist Joe DeRisi of UC San Francisco.

The Virochip is a glass slide, about 3 inches long and 1 inch wide, coated with DNA and RNA fragments from every known animal and plant virus, about 1,000 in all. When unknown samples containing potential viruses are applied to the plate, any virus present in the sample selectively binds to its counterpart on the slide, emitting a fluorescent glow.

The technology was previously used by Ganem and DeRisi to identify the SARS virus.

The San Francisco team screened prostate samples from 86 men, supplied by Klein. They found the virus in eight of 20 samples from men who have a specific genetic defect that is known to confer susceptibility to prostate cancer, but in only one of 66 men who did not have the defect. No other virus was found, and they did not screen healthy men.

The genetic defect is known to interfere with the ability of prostate tissues to fight off a viral infection. Some researchers have speculated that inflammation from a persistent infection is a trigger for prostate cancer.

The structure of the newly discovered virus is very similar to that of the murine leukemia virus, which causes cancer in mice, Klein said. And studies showed that the virus was active in the prostate tissues rather than simply laying there dormant.

"The discovery is very exciting and intriguing," he added, "but there is a tremendous amount of scientific work to be done" before researchers know exactly what the virus is doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 12:05 AM

Damn, I just threw away my mouse and can't post the rest of thi...

Subject: RE: BS: Prostate cancer
From: Alan Day
Date: 25 Feb 06 - 07:04 PM

I have now had my operation for my enlarged prostrate by laser treatment mentioned in a previous posting.I had my operation on the first day and in all I was in Hospital four days.I can honestly say that I suffered no pain from the actual operation.We are now nearly two weeks on and the pain to pee is sometimes fine but sometimes agony,particularly when you leave it too long.I have been told that over a period of time the symptoms of not clearing the bladder will improve(it is why I wanted the op in the first place)but to date it is worse than when I went in,but it is only two weeks since the op,so I will keep my fingers crossed.
Al