Is Don Mclean a folkie???

Subject: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Lord_Franklin
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 08:57 PM

How do you rate Don Mclean; as a folksinger, singer/songwriter, popmusician or just a complete and utter twat???? I love his work.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: khandu
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 09:06 PM

Definitely not a twat! I consider him folkie. But, I suppose, folkie is in the ear of the hearer. khandu

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 09:08 PM

any of the last 3...did some neat stuff at times...but not 'folk'

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:06 AM

Hi

He is folk musician in every sence of the word. He is a singer of traditional songs a prolific writer of songs in the traditional iadom that has a skill for writing songs that touch a lot of people around the world and is always up for a crack or is that hoolee, as I dicovered in Tonder when we had a session backstage.

The guys great and how can you fault a folk musician that also owns a pub!!

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Callie
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:25 AM

Does it matter what pigeonhole he fits into? His songs helped shape my musical world from an early age. Love his songs. He seems to have gone a bit soft of late, but the old records never go away. C

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:11 PM

Who cares? He has written and/or sung some very moving, some very funny, and some very well-crafted songs. That's good enough for me.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Art Thieme
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:58 PM

Don was once Michael Cooney's roommate. If it's at all possible for a singer/songwriter to become a folksinger by osmosis, then Don is one. (But maybe not.)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:07 PM

Early on in his career this question would have never been asked. I guess the questions regarding his "folk credentials" are the price he'll have to pay for adding "Bye, bye, Miss American Pie" to the English language.

I have always loved his recording "Playing Favorites". "Mountains of Morn" (If I remember the title correctly) is a simply beautiful song.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Songster Bob
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:10 PM

McLean was also on the original crew of the Hudson Sloop "Clearwater," helping sail it on the maiden voayge from the shipyard in Maine down the coast and then up the Hudson. Also in the crew were Pete Seeger, Louis Killen, Gordon Bok (I think), Jon Eberhart (of the Boarding Party), and a bunch more. Nobody said he wasn't folky enough for that cruise.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Rasta
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 01:37 AM

ramblin jack Elliot and Jimmy Collier were also part of the early sloop scene along with Don---smash yer bottle against the tomb stone and live while ya can that homeless brother is my friend---rastaaa

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: John Hardly
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:57 AM

Maybe part of the "style vs substance" debate but, rather than excluding McLean from "Folk", isn't "American Pie" actually the closest thing to "folk" that he's written--in the way it's been assimilated into a culture?

John millring Hardly

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:49 PM

It's strange, isn't it,if your surname is MacLean and your initial is "D", destiny allows you to write one really great song, and everything else you write is crap.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:59 PM

I demur. Don McLean has written MANY very good songs. Perhaps you don't have "Homeless Brother."

Dougie I don't know nearly as much about.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:05 PM

OK, but I think the burning question is this:

Will Max play McLean on Mudcat Radio?

(and what will he say about it afterwards?)
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:09 PM

I'm curious, Murray, as to what you'd say Dougie's one great song is...

-J

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,mousethief (at the library)
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:29 PM

You know, I wonder if the problem with people like Don McLean and (say) Peter Paul & Mary is that they're TOO successful. Other folkies get jealous.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray Macleod
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 07:36 PM

Well, Wavestar, my vote for Dougie's great song is the obvious choice, nothing eclectic.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 08:14 PM

Hmm.. and the obvious choice is? You're teasing me, Murray...

-J

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: DougR
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 08:32 PM

You really want to know, Wavestar? Ok. It's "Back in the Saddle Again." :>) DougR

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray Macleod
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 08:39 PM

Well it has to be "Caledonia" hasn't it. The only song that can refer to Scotland as "Caledonia" without imducing nausea. It is a truly great song, slightly quirky lyrics, fabulous melody, one of these songs I wish to God I had written myself .....

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:02 PM

Hey, Murray, how 'bout "Ready for the Storm"?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:08 PM

I'm pretty fond of that one, Joe..

-J

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:17 PM

Ready for the Storm : Caledonia = Vincent : American Pie

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Wavestar
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM

Inconveniently, I must admit no great familiarity with either Caledonia or Vincent, so my ignorance cannot argue with you. I still like Ready For the Storm, though.

-J

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Paul G.
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 10:04 PM

Now Will McLean -- he was folk. Hold Back the Waters, Osceola's Last Words -- Florida Folk to the core...

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Mbo
Date: 05 Oct 00 - 10:40 PM

Why are you people mixing up DON McLean with DOUGIE MacLean???? Dougie is my idol! My favorites by Dougie would have to be "It Belongs To Us" "Stepping Stones" and "She Will Find Me." Don't listen to Murray, he's an old fogey!

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 07:07 AM

Actually I do like a lot of Dougie McLean songs, and lots of Don Mclean songs too. I have seen them both live. and they are consummate performers. ( Don McLean's Martin produced the finest guitar sound I have ever heard )
I just think that they both peaked with one somg and were never able to scale the heights again, unlike writers like Paul Simon, Richard Thompson, Tom Paxton, to name but three at random, who consistently attain greatness in their writing. IMHO, of course. I could be wrong.

Anyway, OLD FOGEYS RULE, OK ?

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 01:27 PM

I liked him on 'Crackerjack'.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:09 PM

1. Bok was on that early Clearwater sail. In fact, I think he was First Mate. 2. DON McLean was very well received by the moderately trad-oriented audience at Fox Hollow back in the dark ages. Even then, the young man's eye was clearly on the prize, but who could blame him for that?

Sandy (another old fogey and unashamed)

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: mrs_zezam
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:37 PM

Another great Don McLean song was "Babylon", sung in a round, with banjo...

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Chevy on the levee
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:53 PM

Actually, "Babylon" is a traditional folk song that was taught to Don by Lee Hays of The Weavers.

Wait a second, you set me up to say that if "Babylon" is a folk song sung by Don McLean then Don McLean must be a folkie. Or, at least, a folksongsinger.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:01 PM

Aha! We've run rings around you logically!

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 06:44 PM

For the benefit of Americans puzzling over the Smambles contribution, there is also an English Don McLean, a comedian who hosts various game shows (doesn't he ?)It's been so long since I watched British TV (sigh ........)

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:21 PM

re: "Babylon", thanks for correction, Chevy... I've been under the wrong impression for too many years. (On the album I have, Don McLean is given credit.)
The other ones I liked were "Castles in the Air" and "Empty Chairs", I think he did write those?

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,mrs_zezam
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:24 PM

previous post was mine.
purged my cache and obviously did not reset cookie correctly.
not my day. *slinks away*

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 08:37 PM

A 'Crackerjack' pen and pencil, is on its way to you right now Murray.

He is more of a Radio 2 man these days.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,James
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:08 AM

I don't know why there is a problem here. A folksinger is a person who sings folksongs. If that person says he/she is a folksinger, then obviously, anything they play and sing is folk music. Your definition of what folk music is becomes moot. You are not required to like it but if the author and/or performer says it is folk - then it is folk. How difficult is this concept?

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 04:24 AM

I see the confusion over Don MacLean's pub got cleared up before I arrived. I recall Don performing trad songs in early days, Dougie still does. In Scotland nowadays the terms folk and folksinger are totally devalued. They denote a pub with a Corries imitating guitar thrasher in the corner yelling songs into a mike with no regard to the meaning of the words, let alone any subtlety. Folk is music to talk over and get drunk to. We talk about traditional music and song just now - the terms are often misapplied, and will in time become devalued too, but not yet.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Callie
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 09:06 AM

Murray, do you really think American Pie was his best song ever? What about:

Empty Chairs Crossroads It's Just the Sun And I love You So Thw Cowboy's Song Til Tomorrow Castles in the Air

that's just a few examples. Maybe they didn't sell millions of copies, but what great songs!

His record "Believers" was the first album I ever bought. I was 12.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 10:32 AM

Callie, I agree with you they are all good songs. And of course I totally retract my previous smart-ass remark about all the other songs being crap ( that goes for both McLeans). Call me a populist if you will, but I find that that the really great (WRITTEN) songs are in fact the ones which the masses take to their bosom. The converse is not necessarily true of course, just look at the success of "My Way".

But yes, I would still say that "American Pie" and "Caledonia" are both songs which are touched by genius whereas the other songs which I know by these two writers are simply hugely enjoyable and well-crafted. IMHO.

Murray

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Frankham
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 02:49 PM

Don McClean knows a lot about traditional folk music and can play in that idiom when he chooses to. In fact, Don knows a helluva lot about music in general.

He probably knows more about the music business than he wants to know, though.

I knew him in the salad days in L.A. when we played together on KPFK. He had just written "Starry Starry Night" and we picked it together on the radio. Needless to say, I was blown away.

He is the child of the Pete Seeger generation of folkie musicians. He comes from the idealist liberal folksinging community. I have no problem with that because that might define me also if I let it. He is also a fine popular songwriter. I have no problem with that because some of my favorite writers are Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, George Gershwin, Walter Donaldson, as well as two other favorite popular songwriters of mine, Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger.

Is Don MacClean a folkie? Sure.

Frank

Frank

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 05:21 PM

What a great thread - I've really enjoyed reading it! I had always thought that Don Mclean must have had some folk influence but I had no idea as to how much he really has been involved in it.

Jon

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: mrs_zezam
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 11:40 AM

I liked this thread, too. I like Don McLean's music, whatever his category.

I hope it isn't too late to add this:
Some other really good tracks on his *Solo* LP are "Over the Waterfall/Arkansas Traveler" and "Cripple Creek/Muleskinner Blues".
Also wanted to add that it was nice to hear him on 4 July as featured artist in concert with the Boston Pops. 300,000 happy folks at the Esplanade.
Trivia: Don McLean's birthday was this past week, October 2. clicky.

still in de Nile about "Babylon"
Mrs. Z

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 09 Oct 00 - 07:13 PM

Frankham said it correctly and completely. McLean is an American troubador in the finest tradition, with all the abilities and knowledge that exemplify that "moniker". When you see/hear him live on stage, you will understand. I've seen two people hold a huge audience entirely spellbound- so that you could hear a pin drop- all by themselves in the center of a stage.....Pete Seeger and Don McLean.

Subject: RE: Is Mclean a folkie???
From: GUEST,Mickey191
Date: 10 Oct 00 - 02:46 AM

Could someone please tell me who is the subject of the song "You Have Lived." From McLean's "Amer.Pie & Other Hits" album. Thank you.