BS: What's happening to us? (UK)

Subject: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:33 AM

Reading this article, made me wonder what's happening to us in the UK.

These are the opening few paragraphs of the article:

Head teachers have been told that they cannot look inside children's lunch boxes for fear of contravening their human rights.

The guidance was issued when a 10-year-old boy successfully overturned a head's decision to ban his "unhealthy" packed lunch.

Ryan Stupples was ordered out of a school dining hall after a piece of chocolate cake and a packet of cheese biscuits were discovered in his packed lunch.

Two things occur to me:

1. How shocking that the child had (gasp!) chocolate cake and cheese biscuits in his lunch box!

2. How crazy that a head teacher isn't allowed to look inside a kid's lunch box because of the child's "human rights".

I'm just wondering where all this is heading, and I don't think I like the answer.

I'd be interested in your comments!

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: skipy
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:38 AM

It's all too late!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Rasener
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:41 AM

Bloody stupid

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:43 AM

I remember when....If I didn't do what was required of me in school, I would get detention or even the cane if deserving. Also remember when swearing on the street was tackled by the Police. When two people on the same bicycle would be reported and taken to court. Riding bicycles the wrong way in a one way street..ditto. If a policeman caught you nicking anything, he could hit you with his black leather glove and you would not dare tell your dad for fear of getting hit again.
The days of great expectations of people behaving considerately and even lawfully have gone...with it have gone the days of teachers, policemen, parents and other authority figures 'controlling' or 'disciplining' bad behaviour because "Children have rights" you know but adults don't!!!! Until adults are given back the prerogative to handle situations..society is stuffed! and getting worse by the year.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:44 AM

If it is specified by the school with the agreement of the parents that children should be discouraged from bringing unhealthy foods to school, then it should be policed as required.
I can also see the school of thought that says what's wrong with cheese biscuits and chocolate cake.
It really is a no win situation, kids do need to eat healthier food, and schools do need to be able to control the children in their care.
To my mind it's the fact that teacher's hands are tied by so many human rights, and do gooders rules and regulations, that they have no means of sanctioning these children. This is what is at the root of a lot of these things, children now feel they have more rights than their parents and teachers. No wonder they grow up expecting the world to dance to their tune.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Alec
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:50 AM

I agree with Giok. I would also point out that there are many in positions of authority in Britain who find the very notion of full & enforcable civil civil rights repellant.
A disproportionately large number of whom take the Telegraph.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:32 AM

I can understand that there are too many kids becoming obese and eating unhealthy foods, but this should (IMO) be the parents' responsibility, not the state's. The problem is that too many parents apparently don't care what their kids eat. I don't think the answer is for the state to 'police' what kids eat. Haven't teachers got enough to worry about without that extra responsibility?

But I agree that it the rule is, no chocolate cake etc., then the teachers need to be able to check that the rule isn't being broken.

But to invoke 'human rights' for the kid in this situation is just daft, IMO. This stupid law seems to have caused more problems than any other - we hear of criminals being allowed to have pornography in jail because of their human rights - what next, it's against their human rights to be locked up? (Not that there's any space for them!)

I imagine the teacher could stand next to the kid and wait for him to open the box to eat his lunch, and then pounce! :-)

I just feel that the country - mainly under Blair - has become a place where you can't do anything because your hands are tied. And it seems to be getting worse all the time.

What's the answer - go abroad? Are things any better elsewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: heric
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 09:48 AM

I don't know about government schools in the US, but at my kids' little parochial schools, each had a no junk food policy. I pondered one's right to eat junk food for all of about three seconds then moved on to more pressing life issues. But the right to slam one's lunch box shut and say "don't look at me teach!" -with teeth full of cheese biscuit - well, I couldn't have dreamed that one up. Even cops, where searches are otherwise not sanctioned, can say "but it was in plain sight in the back seat of the car" or wherever.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:02 AM

We've tackled a similar problem in another thread about children's lunches. Finding something fresh, nutritious, healthy and tasty every day is hard enough. Finding something that fits that criteria that can be packed in a lunch box that's 99 times out of 100 left in an unrefridgerated environment and will still be fit to eat after 3 hours is even harder.

I know Limpit's lunch is left in a plastic crate, inside the classroom or in a heated office for the 3 hours between 9 and 12. We have to be careful that what we give her to eat isn't going to spoil, go slimy and brown or go 'off' in that time. On a hot, sunny summer day, a salad packed in a plastic box in an insulated lunch bag will be composting nicely by lunchtime. Sometimes the only way you can be sure they will actually eat something is to put in an item or two that will not rot, ferment or become 'yucky' - things like cake, biscuits and suchlike. Limpit's lunch is supervised but the only policing is over items such as peanuts, when it is known that a child or teacher has a severe allergy.

It's all very well for politicians to make these rules and regulations, it's quite another for ordinary people to try and live within them.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: guitar
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:09 AM

Nanny state and now it won't be lon before it's a police state.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Amos
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 10:17 AM

Seems to me a lunchbox you could freeze (so it would stay cool for three or four hours) would be a grand invention. They make bricks for this purpose too -- one of those would fill up half the box though. They make small refreezeable cubes and spheres for the same purpose.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:07 AM

When my kid went to school, especially once he became a teenager, he probably used to eat junk food at lunchtime. But he always ate healthy foods at home, for breakfast and in the evening, when we always had a proper meal. So we didn't mind if he did eat burgers or chips sometimes, as we knew it was just part of his diet.

In those days (not all that many years ago) I would have been flabbergasted and annoyed if the 'food police' had come after me because my son had been seen eating a Big Mac with fries. My attitude is it's nobody's business but mine and my sons. This is what I object to these days, the interference with normal people's everyday lives. It seems to have become the norm nowadays for this sort of thing to happen, and we all just accept it as part of 21st century life. Have we all taken leave of our senses? Twenty years ago - or even ten - we would have laughed if anyone had predicted we would end up like this today.

I just wish the government would focus on the things that matter instead of making ordinary folks' lives a misery.

As indicated by guitar above, I can see "nanny's" rolled-up umbrella slowly turning into a truncheon :-((((

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:19 AM

It's the ones who eat junk foods at home they are trying to educate.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:25 AM

Agreed, but I don't think legislation about what people can or can't eat is the right way to go about it.

How long will it be before frying food is banned, like smoking?

No more bacon butties, no more chips... do I need to go on? :-)

Oh, and alcohol does, in a small percentage of people, lead to alcoholism, so why not have prohibition for everyone too, just to make sure nobody becomes an alcoholic.

And then there are those awful newspapers and TV programmes that dare to question the government's policy. Better put a stop to those too...

>:-(

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:27 AM

Civil rights have to be balanced by people behaving in a civil fashion, or society starts to fall apart.

It does seem rather as if large parts of society have lost respect for anything except football and lager. Doing something about it would be good.

All we need is the right drug, which would be added to every take-away burger sold in the country.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Bee
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 11:48 AM

Not in the UK, so I won't comment on the issue, but they do make freezable lunch boxes, my husband had one for a while - basically an insulated bag with freezable sides.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:30 PM

Actually its a bit of a de-escalation. If we had been daft enough to get caught eating a bag of chips in the street in school uniform. No questions asked - it was straight to the headmaster for six of the best.

At least nowadays the the thrust of peoples intentions is the welfare of the child.

Rather than looking for a pretext to beat the shit out of them.

Its progress of a sort.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Gizmo
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 03:35 PM

The problem over here is the fact that the wrong people seem to have certain human rights were others do not.

Personally any child who does not respect adults, and is then given the rights to not listen to adults is always going to fail the child. Unfortunately it leads to prison for them when they become adults. Lots of little darlings are trawling the streets day and night, like hordes of hyenas, with asbos as badges of honour on their paws.

Then again, prison is a bit cushy compared to what some have (or don't have) when they leave. Granted I don't believe in police brutality, but if someone has been tried, they should do their time, with no TV's, video games etc.

I know at least 6 men who have found doing "time" in prison so damn easy that they don't care if they are caught again for crimes. In between sentences, they can actually earn plenty of money doing illegal jobs, it's far too easy, and prison far too soft.

Most MP's live so far away from reality, that all they ever see as the truth of this country is bits of paper with manipulated figures instead of really knowing how easy(?) it is to get a job or housing or basic human rights especially when the government has failed in providing a decent education system for everyone. Which nicely brings it back to the theachers - who do have their hands tied, often by the rope some kids have nicked off the PE teacher and sellotape from CDT room.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:04 PM

This sounds legally dubious. I don't think anyone would dispute that a parent has a right to look inside a child's lunchbox, and schools are "in loco parentis".

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,Don Last
Date: 31 Jan 07 - 08:42 PM

Here in the god ol USA we bring SWAT style police teams into the schools, make ALL the students lay on the floor with their hands on their heads and search the lockers for contraband (the list is too long and unbelievable to print here) AND I HAVE THE VIDEO TAPE TO PROVE IT! The sheriff and principal caught a lot of complaints once the tape was made public but they were not reprimanded in any official capacity.

In comparison I think the UK has a slightly more reasonable policy.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:13 AM

Scrump, they are already legislating over here. See NYC bans trans fats!.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 03:51 AM

Loads of people talking about "Civil Rights", none talking about "Civil Responsibilities". By and large we now all know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Much of this has been accomplished by those who, rather naively sought to do good.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Moses
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:44 AM

I have worked in a Secondary school in the UK for the past twelve years.

During that time I have seen a dramatic drop in the standards of behaviour of the vast majority of pupils to the extent that it seems that most cannot string a sentence together without using the 'f' word. They march through held-open doors without so much as an acknowledgement let alone a 'thank-you' and they seem to take delight in being aggressive towards one and all (their peers as well as the adults they come into contact with).

I have pondered what has produced this rapid change.

Is it the lack of adequate role-models? It used to be that children looked up to those in authority. Parents, teachers and law enforcement officers were held in high esteem. And their heroes were the good guys in the movies.

What do they get now? A T.V. diet of soaps and 'reality' shows where it seems that the more foul-mouthed and agressive the personality, the higher-paid and better regarded they are. The Jades of this world are going to have a lot to answer for.

As for food, just like computers, if you put rubbish in you get rubbish out. It is not reasonable to assume that a child fed a diet deficient in nutrients will be able to concentrate on learning to moderate their behaviour and absorb the information given to them in their lessons.

If they don't have the cake to eat and instead are presented with no choice but to eat healthy food or go hungry, there is at least a chance that they will eat the healthy food. Most children given a choice will eat the cake and ignore the salad.

More than fifty years ago the UK government introduced free milk for pupils in school because they realised the benefit to some children who otherwise, due to poverty, would be very poorly nourished. This free milk was abolished many years ago but some children are still poorly nourished although it is now through the ignorance of their parents as to what constitutes an adequate diet.

We are turning out a generation of obese, foul-mouthed, workshy individuals who may well fail to live as long as their parents.

I sometimes despair.

Christine

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 07:53 AM

if i was a teecher, i would nick all the chocolate cake and that off the kids, and hide in a big cupburd, and eat it meself.

i would take a torch, so i could see etc.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:03 AM

This is probably why we have a thread "Getting out of Teaching" - but I'm pessimistic like Skipy!

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:19 AM

Also, if we all had the same rights it would help - some of us seem to have fewer than others.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:23 AM

I suppose what prompted me to start this thread was not so much the specifics of this particular news item, but the fact that a kid going to school with a lunch box containing chocolate cake and cheese biscuits should make the national news at all. Such an 'event' would never have made the local papers ten years ago, let alone a national paper.

I'm just concerned that this sort of thing is happening all around us on a daily basis, yet nobody seems concerned at the erosion of our freedom - and I consider stopping someone eating these items just that.

Where will it end? It's enough to make me take up smoking in protest.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Essex Girl
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:01 AM

We have a hypocritical government, on the one hand they impose rules as to what children should eat, and on the other do nothing about food manufacturers/retailers who supply junk food. The same with alcohol and cigarettes. On the one hand they abhor the drunken teenagers in the streets at the weekends, and on the other give alcohol licences to any corner shop/garage who ask, and increasing the age limt for cigarette sales to 18 is a joke. Most of the children who smoke in my area have been smoking since they were 11 or 12.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:13 AM

Most of you seem to favour obesity, have a look around you and see the fat people waddling along the street, the UK is now on par with the US, any means is ok to get our country back to being slim and fit.

I don't dispute that obesity is on the increase in the UK. But they are still in a minority compared to people of 'normal' weight.

Every individual can decide to lose weight, or eat healthily if they choose (as I do myself). IMO, the government banning everyone from eating 'unhealthy' foods is interfering with people's freedom to eat what they like. It has been in the past, and should be, a matter of personal choice to eat whatever you like, and to take the consequences of over-indulgence.

By all means, tax unhealthy foods to discourage people from eating them, but don't ban them. If (say) chocolate and chips had an 'obesity tax' on them, then overweight folk might try to find cheaper (and healthier) altefnative foods. But everyone could choose to occasionally eat chips or chocolate, as a treat, and would pay the price financially if they do.

I'm surprised that this government in particular doesn't seem to have thought of taxing unhealthy foods, they seem to want to tax everything else.

I just object to this government's policy of interfering with our personal freedom to live as we choose (as long as it doesn't affect other people, of course). As I said, they'll be banning drink next - and that's when I'll leave the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,ozchick
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:51 AM

At the moment, I am working with a team of health professionals on a project which encourages kindergarten kids (age 3-5) to eat healthy food. Every child is provided with a special (insulated) lunchbox as well as their own drink bottle which is to be kept at the school and only used for water. Only healthy food is allowed in their lunchboxes - fruit and yoghurt for snacks, etc.

The idea behind this is that if we can educate the kids at a young age, hopefully we can help them form good habits early. There's nothing we can do about the food they eat at home, but we can help them make better choices when they are in our care.

The kids are VERY responsive and feel involved in the whole process - not forced to obey. Maybe because these kids are so young they are more responsive than teenagers might be.... but it's all very positive. I don't feel like this is interfering with anyone's lives.....

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

I agree ozchick. The answer is in education of kids and their parents.

To quote Blair: "Education, education, education".

Whatever happened to that? It seems to be just "legislation, legislation, legislation" these days.

I guess passing new laws is easier for MPs than doing anything to sort out the mess caused by previous ones.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:30 PM

Ozchick, the kids may be responsive, but what about their parents? A whole generation has grown up without the foggiest idea of nutrition, let alone how to cook. I applaud what you're doing, but wonder if the message is getting through to the parents.
You just have to stand behind people in a supermarket queue to see how ready meals, convenience foods and junk have become a staple. I do hope the healthy stuff isn't put into the trolley as an afterthought to appease the interfering wotsits at the kindergarten!

The crazy thing is, it costs more to eat fat-saturated crap than it does to eat healthy food. But most people are frightened to prepared food. they'll watch celebrity chefs until their eyes are square, but a lot of them don't want to touch meat (particularly if it isn;t anonymous and wrapped in cling-film) and don't like the idea of peeling or preparing vegetables. Thus they take the 'easy' option. Christ, I even saw ready-made mashed potatoe in a supermarket chill counter the other day!

Thus people are getting fatter, and the lard-arses are not in the minority any more - particularly in the under-30s. The average women's clothing size in the UK is now a size 14. A decade ago it was a size 12. We eat too much and exercise too little, and are too in thrall to the food companies, and we've brought our kids up to be even more so.

I do worry about too much state interference, however. My own view would be for the government not to act, other than to deny free medical assistance to the obese. Let them die cheaply or pay their own way for their folly. At the least, it will make a bit more room for those of us who look after ourselves.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 12:34 PM

...however I concede we have some way to go before we match the fine example of health and fitness in this video!

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:24 PM

A whole generation has grown up without the foggiest idea of nutrition, let alone how to cook.

Again, this was discussed on a previous thread (possibly Spank or no spank) and the general conclusion is that sex discrimination is a two edged sword. Yes, we have women who are capable of building walls, designing aeroplanes and stripping out an engine, but at the cost of what? What happened to 'Home economics' - teaching children how to cook nutritious and tasty meals with a limited budget, how to prepare food, how to clean a house? We've given women the opportunities to be taught the same as men, but where did the reverse chances go? Where are the boys taking Needlework and Domestic Science?

It's not always the case that junk food is more expensive - compare the £1.49 McDonalds' burger with the £2.49 Sainsburys' salad bowl or the £3.10 grilled chicken and salad sandwich from Benjys. I know which I'd be picking if money were tighter.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:28 PM

Th point I was trying to make is: I don't disagree it's a good thing to eat healthy food and cut out the fat and sugar, etc. - but I don't agree that legislation is the way to go about it.

Of course fruit, veg, etc. is better for you than fat, lard, choccies, cake, sugar, sweets, junk food, etc., etc.

Nobody is disputing that fact.

But do we think we should have laws saying you can't eat these things? I think not, but I wouldn't be opposed to taxation on them, to make them less attractive on cost grounds.

Banning foods is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge, IMO.

Is it only me that thinks that?!

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,ozchick
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, I know this is only a small step, but at least it's in the right direction. This program does also have an element of education for the parents, but not all parents can make it to these sessions because of work commitments. I personally think this decrease of knowledge and increase of obesity seems to relate directly to the demise of the 'stay at home Mum'.

The Australian government won't deny free(ish) access to medical assistance (our public health system is pretty good) and that's where in a few years we are going to run into huge problems. (no pun intended) Spend a bit of money now on education and hopefully save loads of money in the future on trying to combat diabetes, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Gizmo
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 06:40 PM

I agree with Liz on this one - healthy foods are often more expensive than cheap fat filled sugar coated lard.

Many times I have been on a budget, and had no choice but to buy the cheapest on offer, unfortunately most cheap fruit is about to go off, and salads at £2.00 to last a day, yet a big family bag size of crisp for the same price (24 bags for £2.00, sometimes twice the amount if buy one get one free) is going to last a few more days in a sandwich, than the mixed salad will.

Not that I have gone to that extreme, but when I have had a tight budget, I have had to cut back severely on fresh fruit, and bought food fillers instead.

On the other hand, my children have been brought up with no fizzy drinks, very few sweets etc, because of my sons kidneys and then because of his hyperactivity. They only have water and milk to drink, and without much complaint. My daughter could get away with drinking fruit squashes, cordials etc but she has had to have water, and it won't do her any harm either.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 08:21 PM

Liz the Squeak makes the comment that junk foods can be cheaper, comparing the price of McDonald burger with a Sainsbury's salad bowl.
However, the quality of the food is measurably different!
At least the salad bowl is natural, compared with the eyelid and foreskin burger of the Big Mac.
Alternatively, why not save money by buying the ingredients (salad vegetables) and making your own? Why pay for someone else's labour?

In the 1960's the two most feared words were "nuclear" and "bomb".
Today those words are "health" and "safety".

Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,formerly known as Guest
Date: 01 Feb 07 - 11:10 PM

So, do the people in the UK eat a lot of soy product now? I remember when the govt released the hoof and mouth disease from Porton Down in order to drive small farms out of business, and all that slaughter was going on, and farmers couldn't restock for X # of years, and I was wondering if meat consumption has gone down over there as a result. Soy is the usual substitute for meat, and soy in even small quantities results in elevated estrogen levels in people. Causes females to become sexually active earlier in life and feminizes young males. So, since Her Majesty (lol, pardon me, that always cracks me up), since that wizened old Nazi has neutered all adult males in her "Realms" anyway, maybe the extra level of estrogen is what's being protected in the article cited in the first post. The govt is making damn sure that boys will continue to have soy pumped into their systems, so they won't grow up and spike the heads of the Windsors. Just a thought. Same thing's happening in the U.S., more or less.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM

"To my mind it's the fact that teacher's hands are tied by so many human rights, and do gooders rules and regulations, that they have no means of sanctioning these children. This is what is at the root of a lot of these things, children now feel they have more rights than their parents and teachers."

I think that those two sentences say it all, really. But we need to bear in mind that 'political correctness' and 'human rights' were originally introduced with the best of intentions - it's their distortion by our 'mad' media and their application by glassy-eyed apparatchiks, mindless careerists and the 'holier-than-thou' brigade that is at the root of the problem. I've long been convinced that those in public life of an authoritarian persuasion now find it so difficult to discipline the criminal and the anti-social that they have to turn their attentions to the, generally, law-abiding and to punishing minor and/or trivial infractions.

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 01:09 PM

My daughter works with special needs children in a local school where today there was an incident of bullying in class and the victim was removed for her own safety....the victim was removed but the perpetrator stayed, having been gently reprimanded.....What happened to the days when the perpetrators were punished?

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: bubblyrat
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM

The fact is,children WANT discipline & control.When I was a 13 year old,and had moved back to Henley from Sussex, I ENJOYED being in the Sea Cadets,& being subjected to a form of military discipline.In those days,if you were cheeky to an older cadet,you were likely to get a hefty (and painful ! ) slap round the ear !! It happened to me several times !! Did I go running home to mummy,blubbing about abuse & human rights ?? No,of course I bloody well didn"t !! I wanted to stay in the cadets,because it was such fun,and very educational.We were taught about responsibilities, about duty, about discipline,about self-restraint, about teamwork.We learned useful ,practical, skills that helped to improve our self-confidence. In fact,I loved it so much,I went on to join the Royal Navy,& happily signed on for 9 years (that was the MINIMUM in 1964 !! ) But then,in those days,there was still hope ! Prisoners called the staff "sir ", teachers had the cane as an option( I was caned several times at Henley Grammar School !!), the police patrolled the streets,realistic sentences were given to serious criminals,real men opened doors for ladies ,or offered their seats on trains,and real ladies said thankyou. The world wasn"t full of of vicious,feminist harridans trying to undermine all male authority, & it wasn"t a criminal offence to say that you disagreed with male anal intercourse .In fact ,all in all,it was quite a pleasantly ordered little society,with,paradoxically enough, the frisson of excitement brought on by the increased personal liberties of the "swinging sixties"-----But of course NOW,we all have so much personal liberty, and so little responsibility,that we ,and our children, and our leaders,have all lost our way.We have to try and regress,or lose everything !!Unless you WANT this country to end up as part of a Muslim Empire ?? Because they have the will,and the discipline,to take over---We do not have the will,or the discipline,to resist......AND they HATE our laziness & decadence !!! Dump Blairism,& bring back McMillanism.or even Churchillism, before it"s too late !!

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Greg B
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 06:34 PM

>but the only policing is over items such as peanuts, when it is known
>that a child or teacher has a severe allergy.

That's another symptom, and that one happens over here in the US
as well.

They send notes home saying not to send peanut butter sandwiches
with the kid's lunches or peanut butter cookies because some other
kid in the class is allergic.

GEEZ!

How about having the allergic kid not EAT anybody ELSE'S PB&J?

Whose problem is it, anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Feb 07 - 06:35 PM

I didn't read it all, but I read enough of it to say: Well said, bubblyrat

Subject: RE: BS: What's happening to us? (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 07 - 05:41 PM

I was walking down the pavement the other day with a friend - A 75 year old man, I am a 53 year old man out of interest - when three young girls in front of us decided they were going to wind us up. They were around 12-13 years old. They all stoppped stock still and held out their arms, telling us we could not pass. My friend gently moved one out of the way by pushing her by the shoulders to one side.

The girl instantly began to scream about sexual interferance and how my friend was an old pervert. Now, two things instantly sprang to mind. Firstly it was a big worry that these young and very manipulative girls could land me with a whole heap of trouble completely out of my control. The second was a worry about the safety of these girls. What if we had been, for instance, a pair of crack-heads? What if we had really been paedophiles?

In answer to the question in the thread I don't know what is happening in the UK. But whatever it is I don't think I like it:-(