BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE

Subject: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:00 PM

This weekend I spent some time with an elderly artist whose continually failing vision now prevents her from pursuing her lifelong love. Somehow the conversation came around to the coming elections and she said that she thought Bush was going to lose.

I asked her why and she replied that all she hears is bad things about him. It was then I realized that in spending 15 hours a day in front of a massive flat screen TV, which she hears more than sees, she is absorbing only the biased coverage of current events presented on those channels hosting her favorite programs, which themselves are tainted with liberal propaganda.

Her daughter, who was present for the conversation, thought I was thrilled because a Viet Nam war hero was running for president. Although she enjoys a lifestyle completely opposite of that of her mother, she too gets the bulk of her news and political opinion from television. Her jaw hit the table when I explained Kerry's carefully orchestrated Viet Nam sham.

Both are registered voters. Neither had a clue about the true agenda of the candidates. Absent my intervention, both would have voted for Kerry - the mother because in her mind, Bush is bad, and the daughter out of respect for Viet Nam veterans like me.

The sad reality is that this situation can be multiplied by millions. These are the voters being effectively targeted by the Democrats, with the assistance of both the entertainment and news media.

Being political persons, we are all familiar with the Bush Bad - Kerry Hero litany, and being political persons, we all know better. Unfortunately, Americans with either very busy lives or no lives at all, are being blindsided by the donkey dropping splashed all over their TV screens and above the fold on the front pages of their syndicated daily newspapers.

We can sit here and educate each other until the cows come home, but we are preaching to the choir. If between now and November 2 we don't make it our mission to enlighten our friends and families, we could find ourselves flying Old Glory upside down on November 3.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:06 PM

Kucinich For President!

;-)

Subject: VOTER WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:11 PM

Would you please enlighten us by describing Kerry's carefully orchestrated Viet Nam sham?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:21 PM

Read the Book,Jack....UNFIT!

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:26 PM

You're a good musician, Chuck.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:28 PM

What book?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:59 PM

Forget the tv sound bites. Look at what has happened to this country under Bush's puppet regime. The rich get rich and the poor get pooer. Ain't we got fun?

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Amos
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:04 PM

UNFIT is a sham, Chuck and I think you know it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Reality check
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:08 PM

From idle curiousity, were either of those friends black?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:24 PM

Chuck is so partisan that his entire being is consumed in spinning what ever the Bush PR folks want him to say. Eric Hoffer labeled folks like him the "True Believeres". They are 100% right and everyone else is 100% wrong...

Sad.

Real life ain't like that at all...

But Chuck doesn't know about real life because he is just another brainwashed partisan.

If he knew just how friggin' stupid he sounds from the real progressive perspective he would be embarassed... Or should, depending on just how many real I.Q. points inhabit his thinkerator.

Vote Nadar!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:40 PM

Chuck, you really should stick to music...your music is good, as said above.

I would also suggest you visit www.snopes.com and read all the way down THIS PAGE.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:28 PM

Is Chuck Hemrick president of Asshole Republican Veterans with No Brains Who Blindly Follow Orders of the Republican Commander in Chief?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:32 PM

So "Chuck", how about sharing some information about the book's author?   What about his "sham"?   

By any chance do you happen to work for Fox News???

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: curmudgeon
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:38 PM

If this is the book by Larry Thurlow, you can read the truth about him in today's Washington Post -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:43 PM

"folks like him the "True Believeres". They are 100% right and everyone else is 100% wrong...

Sad.

Real life ain't like that at all..."

But Bobert doesn't know about real life because he is just another brainwashed partisan.



BOTH sides have "True Believers" - Some of us try to find out the truth about BOTH candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:44 PM

I think there's a wee bit of illiberal bias there...

There's an interesting little piece reprinted in a secton of today's Guardian about a mathematical model trying to identify the process by which you get a situation where the same sort of people vote opposite ways according to whether the part of the country they are living in tends to go one way or the other:
Regarding Henry - "Voters look to their neighbours to determine their decision. John Allen Paulos explains why a few swing states of borderline electors will settle the US presidency"

Of course something that could skew things a bit is that for a lot of people, increasingly, the neighbours who count might not be the ones who live next door, but the one's they regularly run into on the Internet, for example here...

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: jimmyt
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 02:57 PM

McGrath, would you agree that the Guardian is less than middle-of-the-road in its political stance?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:00 PM

That is a leading question JimmyT. What is "less" than middle of the road?   I also wonder what "more" than middle of the road would be?

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:04 PM

The title describes anyone who still votes willingly for either the Republicans OR the Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM

Between Bush, Cheney, and Kerry, only one of them WENT to Vietnam.

Kerry.

Bush didn't even show up for his National Guard Service, although I suspect the truth of that affair is that it was a mutual understanding. He wouldn't try to fly planes and they wouldn't cashier him for substance abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM

BOATERS WITHOUT A CREW

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Noddy
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:12 PM

WANKERS WITHOUT A CRANK

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM

What's that got to do with it jimmyt? If you took a shufti at the article, you'd see it's totally non-partisan, as is generally the case in the paper's Science Section, which is where this piece by a Philadelphia professor of mathematics comes from. The point is that the process discussed works just as well in either poltical direction.

Though actually I'd say that the Guardian is pretty middle-of-the-road - it's just that the political spectrum has been so adjusted that middle-of-the-road is counted as left-wing. To some extent that even applies in the UK - and from all I've seen in the US views that in England would fit happily inside the Conservative Party are classed as as "extreme liberalism."

If you drive along constantly turning right (or left) you go round in circles.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:29 PM

The issue shouldn't be about Viet Nam.   If that were the case than Bob Dole should have beaten Bill Clinton.   If is far more important to me the 20 years of voting records after Viet Nam, than the 4 month Kerry served in Viet Nam.

The only reason Viet Nam is the issue is because Kerry made it the issue by constantly brining it up in the primaries, campaigning with the Swift Boat soldier whose life he saved, and my making it the central theme of the DNC convention.   Therefore Viet Nam is in play for both sides.   How many medals did Bob Dole or George HW Bush win? No one knows because both never brought them up in campaigning.

Who is telling the truth about Viet Nam.   If it were one or two people who opposed Kerry I would give it little credibiility.   When there are 60 decorated war hero's who signed an affadavit against Kerry with an additonal 250 on record against Kerry with 15 of the 20 officers in the famous Kerry picture also against Kerry (with only one officer in the picture supporting him) you have to give it some credence.

Kerry has already changed his story 5 times on Cambodia. He testified that it was seared in his mind that he was in Cambodia in Christmas 1968 when Nixon was president.   Than he said he wasn't in Cambodia. Then he said he was on 2 secret missions to Cambodia.   Then he said he was 50 miles from Cabodia.   All accounts conclude that Kerry was never in Cambodia in 1968.    They only thing that hasn't changed is the Swift Boat Veterans story.

PS- we spent two months reviewing the Bush dental records to see if he was in the national guard.    Did anyone in the press notice that Nixon was not president during Christmas 1968.   HELLO-it may be seared in Kerry's mind but it is not true.

Today Kerry came out and admitted that he left the battle after another boat hit a mine contradicting two weeks ago when he said he never left the battle.   Meanwhile Kerry surrogates attack the swift boat sailors and there source of funding without disputing their facts.    It seems to me that the Swift boat sailors have more credibility than Kerry does.    I have no doubt that Kerry did save the one sailors life.    That does not negate the other acts.

As far as medals- remember LBJ.   He won the Medal of Honor.   When they traced it back they found he flew one 13 minute flight as an observer and never went into enemy territory and never took enemy fire.   Yet- LBJ was the only one of his 13 member crew to get the Medal of Honor for this "corrageous" act.   Clearly a political favor.   One politiician has stated publicly "never has a least deserved medal been shown as much"

For those of you having trouble finding it- the book is #3 on the NY times best seller list.   #1 is Tommy Franks, # 2 is Bill Clinton. I guess Bill is surrounded.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:33 PM

I don't particulary give a damn what Kerry did in Vietnam, and I would not vote for a politician on the basis of his military record...or lack of one. What you see happening is marketing, nothing more. The big 2 parties market their candidates to you the same way fast food is marketed...and a lot of you buy it! That's what's scary.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:38 PM

Larry:

I don't recall LBJ winning any medals nor campaigning on that issue.

I agree that the current election is not about Vietnam.

Dole lost to Clinton based on fitness for the Presidency. I have always had high regard for Dole as a man, a patriot, and a Senator. I think he ran an honorable campaign and held his own in the debates. That didn't lead me to vote for him. Clinton had an awareness of the times we are going through that few could match.

I don't know that Kerry has such an awareness. He is hard to read. I feel that 'W' has no such awareness, and is a poor communicator. I don't think he's bad, or evil. I even think he's almost competent. But right now we need someone way better than him.

Someone who believes in the Darwinian theory of evolution would be a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:43 PM

"Someone who believes in the Darwinian theory of evolution would be a good start."

. . . or at least someone who has evolved in general accordance with Darwin's suppositions.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:53 PM

But surely Bush demonstrates the evolutionary process rather well? I mean, if anyone was in doubt about our simian ancestry...

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 03:57 PM

LOL

Open the link beneath the cartoon. Gives new meaning to the process of democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: jeffp
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

LBJ never won the Medal of Honor.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:10 PM

Always good to check you facts first, too, at the non-partisan www.factcheck.org.

Navy records and eyewitnesses prove the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are anything but.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 04:17 PM

There seems to have been quite a bit said about Kerry, Swift Boats and Vietnam. There was another thread here I read where various links and widly different opinions were given.

Of all the sources given, I am inclined to believe the one in Snopes on the basis that their whole reputation and credibility depends on thier ability to separate fact from fiction and report this accurately.

Here is an extract from thier summary.

How well all of these men knew John Kerry is questionable, and discrepancies between how some of them described Kerry thirty-five years ago and how they describe him today suggest that their opinions are largely based upon political differences rather than objective assessments of Kerry's military record

Jon

PS I'm in the UK so have no republican or democrat loyalties.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 05:53 PM

Mr. Hemrick, you are soooo correct when you say "If between now and November 2 we don't make it our mission to enlighten our friends and families, we could find ourselves flying Old Glory upside down on November 3." That's why I am writing dozens of letters a day to enlighten people about the relentless dishonesty and self-interest of the Bush administration. Old Glory will be righted on November 3 if we can just defeat Bush again.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 06:11 PM

GUEST,TIA: Amen to that "again."

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 06:56 PM

Don't forget - the one whom Al Qaida want to see back in the White House is probably Bush. Which it seems likely that any pre-election terror strike in the USA will be aimed at helping him win.

In the words of CIA officer Michael Scheuer (according to the Christian Science Monitor): "I'm very sure they can't have a better administration for them than the one they have now," he said. "One way to keep the Republicans in power is to mount an attack that would rally the country around the president."

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 07:35 PM

I said....
Would you please enlighten us by describing Kerry's carefully orchestrated Viet Nam sham?

The reply
Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,chuck hemrick - PM
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:21 PM

Read the Book,Jack....UNFIT!



I asked you to explain to us what you explained to them.
I guess you realized that the folks here would see through your B.S That's your choice. Spread propaganda to little old ladies and brag about it. We won't think any less of your music.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: DougR
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 07:48 PM

No pun intended Chuck, but duck Chuck.

Gee, Bobert, are Republicans the only ones who are partisan?

Viet Nam should NOT be an issue in the campaign, however, Kerry has pinned his whole campaign on it. Starting with that dramatic, "Reporting for Duty!" at the Democrat Convention. You'll note he certainly has not been running on his record in the United States Senate has he? Neither has he run on being an anti-war protestor, which I believe anyone on this forum knows he was.

Chuck, you did a good thing when you set those two ladies straight. I'll take others word that you are a good musician, but that doesn't prevent you from also being a good clear thinking American also.

Many here on this forum evidently have no sincere position on the political situation at all. They just hate Bush. If they practiced what they preach, they would do as Bobert is going to do. Vote for Nader.

DougR

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:03 PM

You're gettin' overexcited, Doug. You signed off twice again.

I ain't lettin' either Bush or Kerry make a monkey out of me. They are just front men for the rich lobbyists that back 'em. You are the patsy who believes in it all and goes out to vote for one of them. Too bad you still have enough company out there to make it all seem real when it actually isn't. You ain't got a real democracy anymore in America. What you got is a ruling oligarchy that changes its public false face now and again. Oligarchy. Look it up.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 09:58 AM

At the risk of reference to something out of Ken to those across the pond, but who probably are up on this since they're such a well-informed bunch:



Swift Boats Veterans for Truth = Willie Horton



Robo

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 10:40 AM

I agree with Chongo, the two political parties are both owned lock, stock and barrel by the big corporations and special interests. But the Republicans have broken away from the time honored system of keeping government somewhere near the middle of the road. By swinging so far to the right, they have failed to represent the majority of the United States. For that reason, its time for a change.

"Like father, like son. One Term".

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: DougR
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:40 PM

Well, Alaska, you may well be right. I guess time will tell. I hope you are not too disappointed, though, if it proves that you are wrong.

Chongo: I don't need to look it up. I know what it means.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Amos
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 02:16 PM

Like father, like son -- obsessive preoccupation with Middle Eastern enemies and an unlimited willingness to shed human blood unnecessarily.

A

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From:
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:12 PM

Any voter who has read or listened to the Swift boat Vets for Truth, and hasn't seen this NY Times Chart certainly will not have a clue.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:28 PM

Mr. Hemrick was apparently referring to Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out against John Kerry by John E. O'Neill and Jerome R. Corsi, which comes from the same people who sponsor the web site SwiftVets.com and a TV ad selling the same message.

Refutations may be found at

The Wall Street Journal (often regarded as the flagship of conservative opinion in the US; they were rabidly anti-Clinton)

Disinfopedia

salon.com

eRiposte.com

Urban Legends Reference Pages

FactCheck.org

spinsanity.org

the official Kerry-Edwards website

Most telling of all, the ad was denounced by John McCain, a Vietnam veteran and Senator.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:48 PM

I don't think Chuck & Doug will pay any atention to refutations, no matter how well-documented or well-reasoned.

Their objective is for their team to win, and therefore the end justifies the means. I'd like my side to win, all right, but I want them to win fairly. This is meaningless to those who seek and/or worship power; just as the admonition to support the president in all things because he is president is meaningless to me.

We're talking past each other.

... and if you quote me please include the part about "in all things."

clint

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:10 PM

George W. Bush is to patriotic Americans what Michael Jackson is to Child Protective Services.

Subject: RE: BS: VOTERS WITHOUT A CLUE
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 07:37 PM

That sounds more self-righteous & pompous than I meant, what I said up there. It's just that I don't believe you can get good results by bad means, in particular deceiving people "for their own good."

And insisting that Our Leaders know best & must not be questioned is not a good method for running a democracy.

Speaking as an elderly and somewhat vision-impaired artist.

clint