BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 08:44 AM

Was there rumours they plan rejigging constituency boundaries even more in their favour
for future elections...??? Pure myth!
The reality:
The Parliamentary Constituencies Act 1986 (as amended in 2011) required the four Boundary Commissions for the UK to carry out a review of constituencies and to submit final reports to Government in September 2018. Parliament specified that the 2018 Review must reduce the number of constituencies, and therefore MPs, in the UK, to 600. It asked us, as an independent and impartial body, to consider where the boundaries of the new constituencies in England should be, ensuring that every new constituency (except two for the Isle of Wight) has roughly the same number of electors: no fewer than 71,031 and no more than 78,507.

If left as at present there is a faint possibility that the bias towards Labour in the present boundaries would create another nightmare on corbyn street,

It is generally held that constituency boundaries at present favour labour by a combination of gerrymandering and malapportionment,
https://www.geog.ox.ac.uk/research/transformations/gis/papers/dannydorling_publication_id1322.pdf


https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/files/102177649/Gerrymander.pdf
Terrible things facts (unless a guardianista)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:09 AM

Well.. you can always rely on the tory party to conduct a clean fair honourable election campaign...
Despite all the odds the nasty Labour party have stacked against the poor downtrodden tories..

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

But all sarcasm aside, Iains response does tend to positively support suspicions
the tories do plan rejigging constituency boundaries even more in their favour
for future elections...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:34 AM

On page 48 of the Conservative Manifesto it says:

We will ensure we have updated and
equal Parliamentary boundaries,
making sure that every vote counts the
same – a cornerstone of democracy.

So yes, they will do that (to the extent any manifesto commitment is binding)

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 09:39 AM

"We will ensure we have updated and
equal Parliamentary boundaries,
making sure that every vote counts the
same – a cornerstone of democracy."

Gasp... what.. me and my mum's votes will finally get us a Labour MP in Scrumpyshire...!!!!!???



Just a note, my mum is 87.. so if the kindly tories can hurry up with our magic new boundaries...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 10:32 AM

"The Boundary Commission sent over its final recommendations for the new parliamentary boundaries in September 2018.

The Commission said it was “confident” its new map would be the best outcome for the future of parliament.

In 2011, MPs in parliament backed the principle of undertaking a reduction in the number of MPs.

The law requires the size and shape of parliamentary boundaries are periodically reviewed to keep updated with demographic changes which influence a number of eligible electors in each area.

The last review took place in the mid-noughties, which ensured changes were enacted for the 2010 general election."(wales 2006, Englanf 2008, N Ireland 2007, scotland 2005)

The proposed changes are twofold?:
1)Shrink the number of snouts in the trough.
2)To ensure the numbers of the electorate in each constituency are equal.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1198254/election-2019-boundary-changes-effect-2019-general-election
It has to be pointed out the author of the article is a total idiot for asking how the changes would impact the december election. How a future event can possibly impact a past event totally escapes me. These changes have not been before parliament and hence have not been enacted. THe election was fought on 2010 constituency boundaries.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 01:43 PM

It’s finally happened: a Brexit Bill has passed the Commons.

Ayes – 330

Noes – 231

off to the Lords next.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:17 PM

Do some folks not have anything more interesting or important in their lives...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:53 PM

It is very important to the 17.4 million majority that voted for brexit and had to endure 3.5 years of remainiac stalling and demands for a second referendum because it was so unfair.
Well 12/12 settled your hash bigtime. We're OFF!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 02:59 PM

like I said...


But I'd hope for the future mental health of our nation,
that only a minority of the 17.4 million are such obsessed fanatics...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:05 PM

btw.. who are these "remainiacs" I hear so much about...???

I could possibly have been persuaded to vote leave
[in fact I was open mined to good persuasion...]
if it hadn't been for all the aggressively abusive leaver nutcases
shouting so loud above any sensible honest leave campaigners...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:07 PM

None of the six hopefuls are going to escape serial slagging by the gutter press and the criminal idiot Staines (and his friend here - wonder why anyone would proudly throw his lot in with a bloke like that, unless...?). The judgement is going to be which one can ride out the storm best with a combination of toughness, honesty and determined leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 03:30 PM

Steve - might as well just let Guido, America, and Israel choose the next Labour Leader..
Don't make much difference where I vote...

I'm sure Blair was handed victory in such an appointment from 'above'...???

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 06:49 PM

I was in me classroom one afternoon in May 1994 when a socialist mate of mine came in and whispered in my ear that John Smith had just died suddenly. After a minute or two getting over the shock, I whispered back that Blair was the shoo-in. I felt at that time that it was days of hope after Thatcher trashing the country. The bloody fourth year bottom group occupied me for the next half-hour...

I'm predicting a Starmer-Rayner ticket. It wouldn't be my choice. I think there are two mighty women, they share a flat, and they'll get my vote if I get the chance. All this vacillation about Becky having Corbyn baggage is just bollocks. Every one of those candidates has baggage that the Mail will home in on. We need someone who will fight all that with real teeth. Becky for me every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 02:35 AM

I remember JC winning two leadership elections by landslides. I remember a lot of people hailing him as The New Messiah. I also remember some people (including me and Mrs Backwoodsperson) saying he would render the LP unelectable to government.

Who, in the end, was proved right?

Being a ‘good Socialist’, as JC undoubtedly is, is simply not enough. The ordinary people of this country desperately need a good Labour government, whether they understand that or not. The Labour Party needs a leader who is an excellent orator, a unifying figure, a supreme strategist, and a bare-knuckle-fighter in the House of Commons.

I don’t see RLB as that leader, despite liking and admiring her as a person and a senior member of the PLP. But do any of the candidates qualify on all counts?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 02:50 AM

"The ordinary people of this country desperately need a good Labour government, whether they understand that or not. The Labour Party needs a leader who is an excellent orator, a unifying figure, a supreme strategist, and a bare-knuckle-fighter in the House of Commons."

and it shall come to pass! Perhaps?
but not a cat in hell's chance before 2050. Rest assured your present bunch of wannabe leaders are as attractive to the electorate as a dose of crabs, despite you "winning the argument"

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:39 AM

Jeremy Corbyn did not lose the election because he was a socialist. Where do you want me to start?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:20 AM

BORIS JOHNSON’s deal has comprehensively cleared its latest hurdle in the House of Commons, but Brexit Secretary Steven Barclay has warned the House of Lords not to undo all the hard work as the withdrawal agreement reaches its next crucial stage.

Will Boris disband the vermin in ermine first, or the BBC? Good to see the massive Tory majority threatening the foe with fire and brimstone.
No credible response off lippy labour! All mouth and no trousers these days. Can't for the life of me think why that is.

England, bound in with the triumphant sea
Whose rocky shore beats back the envious siege
Of watery Neptune, is now bound in with shame,
With inky blots and rotten parchment bonds:

But only until the end of January!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:27 AM

England First, eh? Yep....That figures...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:39 AM

I know of a few copies of the party that must not be named membership list that was leaked some time back. I suspect a bit of work could easily show that membership transferred to UKIP and the Brexit party with a good dose of Britain First thrown in. It was, after all, pretty easy to find those on the list who were folkies and ordered by Obergruppenführer Nick to infiltrate folk music forums.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:51 AM

Seems a few turkeys here managed to escape Christmas! The rest of the cull was an outstanding success.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:02 AM

Makes you wonder, doesn't it, Dave...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:19 AM

”Jeremy Corbyn did not lose the election because he was a socialist. Where do you want me to start?”

And I didn’t say he did.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:44 AM

Whether or not I am a 'good socialist',
I will make it plain and clear that any prospective Labour candidate
publicly claiming to be a "Socialist" in 2020
instantly renders themselves unelectable in most constituencies..

Like it or not that is the reality of self identifying as a "Socialist"...

The word has now become so demonised by all pervasive mail/sun/guido populist culture,
and become such a trigger for all the now ingrained social prejudice against anyone left of H1tler..

The word "socialist/ism" belongs back in the early 20th Century history,
and is now no longer acceptable to most voters...
Even ordinary working class ex Labour voters who still at heart believe in basic "socialist" values...

The Labour party needs to come to terms with this,
and also reconsider the wisdom of sticking with the word "comrade"
and publicly singing "The Red Flag" in any situations where there are phone cameras...

Adapt and survive...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:55 AM

This is speculation so you can dismiss it if you wish but I wonder if Labour actually want a leader as we know the word. We all know that Jeremy Corbyn was, and had been for a long time, anti EU. However the party machine was pro EU and so JC put his own beliefs to one side and led the party along the lines decided at conference.

Any new 'Leader' will be expected to 'lead' the party in the same way. I put it to you that this is not what most of us understand as leadership. It's not the kind of leadership Labour needs in order to win back those seats that went to the Conservative party in the last election.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:05 AM

I forgot to include ‘decisive’ and ‘supremely able to think clearly on their feet, whilst being howled at and jeered by the horde of blue baboons on the opposite benches’ in the list of personal attributes required by the new leader, in my post of 10 JAN 20 - 02:35 AM.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:23 AM

Being ex military also scores extra brownie points with voters...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:45 AM

It also helps if you're a hale-fellow-well-met serial totty-shagging buffoon.

For the umpteenth time, Jeremy Corbyn voted remain.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 08:35 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: For the umpteenth time, Jeremy Corbyn voted remain.

You make my point for me. Before he became leader Jeremy Corbyn was anti EU. When he became leader he voted how Momentum told him to vote. Not what I call leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:06 AM

Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:14 AM

Steve Shaw wrote: Absolute unsupportable tosh, and you know it. Stop reading the Mail is my advice.

Your stubborn refusal to see the obvious makes me very happy. It's just the attitude that could keep Labour out of power for another term or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:21 AM

But will the new leader be a magician. I have a suspicion he/she/it will need to be.

Funny we no longer hear about pesky ruski collusion in our election.
Even the lefties realize that if a horse is dead, there is little point in flogging it.
Rather akin to electing a "new leader", looking at what is on offer.
Now they can no longer frustrate brexit they need another bone to chew!

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:50 AM

I want the tories out and a Labour government.
I want a real Labour party, not a tory lite version.
I'd like to see this happen before I'm 70...

It's up to the Labour party to reflect on why they lose elections,
and what trappings of the past, and political text books,
they need to discard
in order to win back voters..

A party membership in stubborn denial will continue to lose...

600,000 good 'socialists' will not win a general election
where millions of votes are needed...

Working class ex Labour voters need Labour politicians they can identify with..

Sadly this is something ukip/tommy robinson/far right understand better than the current Labour party do...

It's the Labour party that needs to change how it portrays itself,
in a cruel new world of relentless pernicious media and internet hostility
geared up to permanently keeping Labour out of power...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:30 AM

Hey PFR I have some bootleg copies of Bushtucker man. Are you interested?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:48 AM

Iains - I think I get the drift what you are trying to say..

I'm actually rather keen on rugged individuals versus a wicked mob,
or harsh environment movies..


Westerns are my favourite genre...

We need a tough new anti-hero gunslinger in town
to protect the good meek town's folks, and farmers,
and motivate them to fight back
against the brutal evil robber baddies from inside and outside the territory...

You know how those movies usually end...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:25 PM

The westerns I watched had cowboys and injuns. The ending being good or bad generally depended on whether one favoured the former or the latter.
I agree with you about mobs. Having seen flash mobs come out of nowhere several times in Nigeria and being a paleface, take it from me. It ain't no sensible place to be.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:37 PM

Iains - if I am talking to the human aspect of the "Iains" persona..

You obviously must know lefties are a diverse bunch, just like any other group of folks..
Your constant insults reducing us to prejudiced stereotypes,
don't actually work as you might want..
They don't sting, I actually find them funny - but I have a perverse sense of humour..
Mostly your insults backfire and just show you up as a person
not to be taken seriously, and easily mocked...

I'd prefer to talk to the Iains who has lived an interesting life of travel and experiences...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:54 PM

"The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:56 PM

I'd certainly like to know a little bit more about his "interesting life" on the far right...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:05 PM

Steve - "Know thy enemy"..

Either to defeat them, or as first steps in healing divisions...

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:08 PM

I don't have enemies here. I do have a couple of bloody irritants in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 03:37 PM

Steve Shaw wrote: "The obvious," Stanron, which you appear to be in some very strange state of denial about, is that Jeremy Corbyn voted remain in 2016. Whatever your claims about his demeanour or sentiment, etc, which you are no more privy to than I am, that's the starting point: if you voted remain, you are a remainer.

You keep repeating that as If I denied it.

From his Wiki page;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn

"Corbyn has previously been a left-wing Eurosceptic. In the 1975 European Communities referendum, Corbyn opposed Britain's membership of the European Communities, the precursor of the European Union (EU). Corbyn also opposed the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, opposed the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and backed a proposed referendum on British withdrawal from the EU in 2011. He accused the EU of acting "brutally" in the 2015 Greek crisis by allowing financiers to destroy its economy."

Since he became leader the views he had previously held were changed to align with the Party line. He didn't lead. He followed.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:03 PM

So Corbyn vacillated over supporting or opposing our membership of the EU?

Wuppy-doo! Makes him no worse than Johnson.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 05:18 PM

Stanron, you haven't got the slightest scintilla of evidence that he changed because of some kind of pressure from the party. Please stop making things up. He voted remain. You don't want to respect that for reasons best known to yourself and millions of other brainless Mail-reading leave voters. Good for you. Nice point about Johnson, John. We all remember his stage-managed "can't decide but I'll let you know..." bullshit in early 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 06:45 PM

I'm curious - out of all the Labour MPs who just lost their jobs,
which amongst them might have been a better leadership contender
than the bunch up for selection...???

.. and what, if anything, could be done about it...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 07:54 PM

If there's one thing we should learn is that we never know what kind of a leader someone would make until they're a leader. I give you Atlee, a man with a million defects (including racism and misogyny), of whom Churchill (a man with five million defects, one of which is that he was responsible for the death of my great uncle Jimmy) said that he was a modest man with much to be modest about. Without wishing to diss Churchill's war leadership (that can wait for another time), Atlee did more for this country than a thousand bloody Tories have ever done. Didn't look too good in 1945 to start off with, though, did he?

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Iains
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 02:27 AM

We simply do not know who drives the failed agenda in the Labour party.
Is it Unite? Momentum, the hard left crazies? The present crop on offer in the leadership contest provide little to impress. The fact that Corbyn is allowed to remain as leader clearly demonstrates the fractured state of the party. For as long as he remains without public condemnation or censure, the party is heading for oblivion.
The recent election made it very clear the electorate will not accept any part of what the Corbyn cult offers. Labour has   an upcoming fight between hopelessly failed ideology and pragmatism. The party is in a state of paralysis, surely no other explanation can justify Corbyn continuing to be leader.
Unless the party reinvents itself it will never hold power again. The message of unelectability was enforced by the mass migration of labour seats to the Tories in the Labour heartlands. Betray your electorate-pay the price! Simples!
As for "winning the argument"-words fail.
Such a level of delusion surely demands sectioning, for public protection.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:15 AM

Government pledges £71m for Redcar

Let us accept this may never turn up. Let us also suspect a fair degree of cynicism that it is more about keeping them voting Toey than anything else. Even the statement that it was decided before the election more or less fits that, as persuading them to vote Tory.


Despite those reservations, it is good news for Redcar, I think, and should be welcomed as such. Providing it does turn up.

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:18 AM

Sorry, try this link

Subject: RE: BS: Broken Govt Pledges: 1 UK Political thread
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Jan 20 - 04:51 AM

400