BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal

Subject: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:36 PM

I expected that Civil Unions would win out but just a short while ago Maine became the fifth state to legalize same sex marriages. The governor signed it into law today.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:46 PM

So we can redefine "Maine Squeeze". Good for y'all. I wish Texas would follow your example but I'm guessing that will happen about the time hell freezes over.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:48 PM

Yes!!! It is esp. heartening to hear after some of the ugly backlash that has been in the media this week, from old military guys on npr (be warned: it's really ugly) being fearful about putting our young folks in a military with homosexuals (oh my!) to idiots like Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher who said in an interview in Christianity Today that calling gay people "queer" "is not like a slur" because homosexuality is "strange and unusual." He also declared that he would never let his gay "friends" "anywhere near my children."

They are all idjits! Go, Maine!!

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:52 PM

Makes one wonder: if he believes his gay friends are paedophiles, why are they his friends? And does he allow his "straight" paedophile friends near his kids?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 09 - 01:58 PM

What, you want logic?! The military guys were uglier because they obviously truly believe there are gays in the military just waiting to rape their "children" who might not join up if gays are let to be out openly. They sounded SO out of touch and lost...the main spokesperson couldn't even defend what he claimed well..it was almost sad if it wasn't so destructive.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 09 - 02:02 PM

Just a few days ago, the Washington State legislature passed a bill legalizing civil unions at least, and the news has been a bit fuzzy around the edges as to whether this includes same-sex marriage. Governor Christine Gregoire has said that if the legislature passes a gay-marriage act, she will sign it.

Already, a conservative religious coalition is forming in order to fight it, à la California's Proposition 8. They may be in for a bit of a battle, however, because there are quite a number of churches in the state (and all over the country) that have subscribed to an "Affirmation of Welcome" statement.

And when the statement says "sacraments," this includes the sacrament of marriage.

We are slowly but surely (I hope!) lumbering our way toward civilization.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 May 09 - 02:28 PM

I believe that makes a clean sweep of the Northern New England States of Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.

Still, here in Maine those who remain opposed to this law have the right to circulate a "Peoples Veto" petition, which if enough signatures were collected would then be voted on in a statewide referendum.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 May 09 - 02:39 PM

Absolutely, Charley.It will make for an interesting discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 09 - 02:59 PM

This proves nothing!    I expect to see things get much worse before they get better.....if they ever get better.


Almost every politician in America(including most of the Dems), voted in favour of the "war" in Iraq.....How many Mudcatters think they were right?

Give the people all the information, stop browbeating them and let them decide.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:03 PM

Be sure to get the Right to Life, anti-abortion groups on your side if it comes to a referendum! They ought to be very supportive of same sex marriage.................

Good on ya' Maine

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:25 PM

"Remember the Maine."

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:26 PM

akenaton,

What are you going on about? Right or wrong, the law passed in Maine. Nobody is browbeating anyone. Charley suggested a referendum may be in the wind - I agreed that it is legal and acceptable for petitions to circulate.

No one here is trying to "prove" anything.

I can understand why certain groups, in particular religious groups, may object because it is not acceptable according their beliefs. The law does not require them to change their beliefs or perform same sex marriages. It does recognize that same sex married couples have the same rights as heterosexual married couples.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:30 PM

So what happens when a gay guy marries a lesbien female?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:32 PM

Very little, I am told.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:33 PM

LOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:33 PM

But there are many such 'marriages' for social, political or bureaucratic purposes.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 May 09 - 03:37 PM

Yeah Bruce......That's why those anti-abortion groups are so high on gay marriage. Very few abortions among gay couples........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 09 - 04:05 PM

Peace, in answer to your question:

A gay young fellow named Bloom
Took a lesbian up to his room.
They argued all night
Over who had the right
To do what, and with which, and to whom.

Don Firth

P. S. Trying to veto the law by referendum would raise Constitutional issues, because it is a question of the civil rights of a minority, and civil rights matters are not subject to popular vote.

It will be interesting. And probably pretty loud (more heat than light)!

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 May 09 - 04:07 PM

Frankly I hope the legal rights are extended to anyone who chooses o live with a single partner for life. How many times have I seen a pair of sisters living together for years and years without being entitled to each others SS benefits, working place life insurance or health insurance and an assortment of other goodies. Somehow there has to be a civil union status to expand benefits to anyone who lives with another person for life.

That of course excludes useless children who refuse to move out and support themselves - even I have standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 09 - 05:18 PM

Fully agree with you there Sinsull.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 May 09 - 05:34 PM

Well, with all appropriate respect to the various generals and admirals, I never saw or heard of a gay or lesbian soldier hit on anyone else in my 23 years in the Army, but I certainly encountered more than a few unwelcome heterosexual advances. Anyone who doesn't think that they serve now, and that their identities are pretty well known within their units, is wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: gnu
Date: 06 May 09 - 05:38 PM

ake... "Give the people all the information, stop browbeating them and let them decide."

Apparently, that doesn't work, does it?

Again... same as the last time (and I see THAT thread is still going on ad inFITitum), I shall try not to post here anymore.

Rah, rah, go gays.
Hope you get respected one of these days.
Just do one one thing after all the charades,
And stop it with the silly parades.

Sorry... my bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 May 09 - 06:22 PM

Just wait until the chimps start having their annual Pride Parades, gnu. Noisy!!! But more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Ed T
Date: 06 May 09 - 06:38 PM

Why shouldn't gay folks enjoy marital bliss, or the lack of it, like the rest of us:)

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 09 - 07:09 PM

artbrooks, exactly, thanks for posting of your experience.

Sins, I agree totally re' bennies for singles living together, sisters or whathaveyou.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 06 May 09 - 11:58 PM

For the Maniacs -- ain't you proud to live here? This is long overdue ......but I was chatting with two gay friends today about it and they said -- get ready for the referendum......

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: akenaton
Date: 07 May 09 - 03:51 AM

Hi gnu!......Unfortunately they never get ALL the information so it's nigh impossible to make an informed decision.

With your Zany sense of humour, I thought you would be enjoying all the fun over at the other thread...:0)

How will the referendum question be worded?
Typical example

"Are you a "homophobe", please tick "yes" or "no"....isn't it fuckin' hilarious gnu?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 May 09 - 04:28 AM

Quite obviously the military has a serious problem with having persons in service who have a sexual preference for others with whom they serve.

Even as women distinguish themselves in battle alongside men, they're fighting off sexual assault and harassment. It's not a new consequence of war. But the sheer number of women serving today — more than 190,000 so far in Iraq and Afghanistan — is forcing the military and Department of Veterans Affairs to more aggressively address it.

The data that exists — incomplete and not up-to-date — offers no proof that women in the war zones are more vulnerable to sexual assault than other female service members, or American women in general. But in an era when the military relies on women for invaluable and difficult front-line duties, the threat to their morale, performance and long-term well-being is starkly clear.
Of the women veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have walked into a VA facility, 15 percent have screened positive for military sexual trauma, The Associated Press has learned. That means they indicated that while on active duty they were sexually assaulted, raped, or were sexually harassed, receiving repeated unsolicited verbal or physical contact of a sexual nature.

Of course I suppose one might assume that all those women were assaulted by homosexual males who "don't tell." ????? At least the assumption by some seems to be that only homosexuals would be in the least inclined to seek or to have sex while in military service.

[Original link:
Female soldiers cite sexual assaults
By Kimberly Hefling
The Associated Press
updated 11:54 a.m. CT, Mon., July. 21, 2008
Surprisingly, still up.]

John

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 May 09 - 06:11 AM

This is confusing. I thought that in the main sex is the same in most marriages, since time immemorial, and partners just put up with this. Why did it have to be legalised now?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 07 May 09 - 07:17 AM

If someone SOUNDS like a homophobe, does this make him a homophone?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:02 AM

Yes Deborah - I fully expect a referendum. But that is not a bad thing. I also fully expect the referendum to pass. Maine has a very laid back live and let live attitude for the most part.

akenaton - you do not have to be a homophobe to oppose same sex marriages. Why the name calling and the baiting?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:32 AM

what about the rights of gay dogs.
seriously,it seems like a good idea to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:35 AM

I am proud of my home state.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 May 09 - 08:48 AM

Wish I could vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 May 09 - 11:39 AM

Sinsull, your idea of domestic partnership rights for situations such as siblings is a good one, that hadn't occurred to me before. I suppose, though, that in most cases members of such a household don't expect it to go on "for life" until quite late in the game...

~ Becky in Tucson

Go Maine!

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:07 PM

Neither do most married couples Becky.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:28 PM

Following the introduction of civil partnerships in the UK the same question arose about lifelong 'partnerships' between siblings.

Elderly sisters take inheritance tax fight to Strasbourg Sept 2006

'Joyce and Sybil Burden, aged 88 and 80, want the same rights as married or same sex couples. As the law stands, when one of them dies the other will have to sell their home in Marlborough, Wiltshire, to pay the inheritance tax.

The 2004 Civil Partnership Act extended to gays and lesbians the same exemption from inheritance tax already enjoyed by married couples - but it does not cover family members living together like the Burden sisters..........

Sadly, though, civil partnership is not an option for sisters, just as marriage is not an option for a brother and sister.)'

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:35 PM

Not marriage but a Civil Partenership.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 09 - 12:53 PM

It could get VERY complicated if there were more than 2 siblings, some living together and some living 'away'.

Something should be addressed, but Civil Partnership for siblings may not be exactly it.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: bubblyrat
Date: 07 May 09 - 02:07 PM

I fully agree with Sinsull,and ,whilst I may well disagree with the idea of same-sex "marriages" (which I do, although I am OK with "Partnerships"), I don't like all this sneering "You're a Homophobe" stuff ---it might be alright in the school playground (in which case a punch in the mouth would be a suitable response),but it has no place among serious,sensible adults on a discussuion forum such as this one.....so kindly desist ,oh "Troubled One " !!

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 May 09 - 02:38 PM

Pouvez-vous?

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: GUEST,Wordrow
Date: 07 May 09 - 03:55 PM

I've had a same-sex marriage for 30 years now. I've tried asking my wife about different sex, but no, she prefers the same old sex.

Ali Baba (raps on door): "Open Sodomy!"

Abdullah: "Don't you mean 'open sesame'?"

Ali: "No, this is the back door."

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Ref
Date: 07 May 09 - 09:44 PM

Good for Maine! Hope the referendum fight winds up supporting "liberty and justice for all." We're hoping for the same in NH, where our DINO governor still hasn't made up his mind whether he has any political courage or not.

While I wouldn't automatically label a gay marriage opponent as a homophobe, I think that's what most of them are. They are reacting from instinctive fear of "the other" rather than from any intentional hatred. "Homophobe" really isn't that pejorative a term, except that some people use it as meaning "gay-hater" instead of "gay-fearer." If given a chance to consider the matter rationally instead of religiously, I believe a lot of them can be turned to the side of that "liberty and justice" mentioned above.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Azizi
Date: 08 May 09 - 08:45 AM

Here's an excerpt of an article about this subject:

MIA On Gay Marriage
By Eugene Robinson
Friday, May 8, 2009

Believe it or not, often I can see the other side of an argument. I know that tough gun control laws save lives and make our communities safer, for example, but I also see clarity in the Second Amendment. I support affirmative action, but I realize that providing opportunity to some worthy individuals can mean denying opportunity to others. Thinking about some issues involves discerning among subtly graded shades of gray.

On some issues, though, I really don't see anything but black and white. Among them is the "question" of granting full equal rights to gay and lesbian Americans, which really isn't a question at all. It's a long-overdue imperative, one that the nation is finally beginning to acknowledge.

Before his inauguration, President Obama called himself a "fierce advocate of equality for gay and lesbian Americans." Now, with the same-sex marriage issue percolating in state after state and with the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy ripe for repeal, it's time for Obama to put some of his political capital where his rhetoric is.

On Wednesday, Maine became the fifth state to legalize gay marriage; similar legislation in New Hampshire has been sent to the governor. Politicians in Washington who want to avoid what they see as a dangerous controversy have a convenient escape: They can say that the marriage issue should be left to the states and that the question of whether a legal gay marriage in one state should be recognized everywhere has already been addressed by Congress and ultimately will be settled by the courts.

But that's a dodge, not a stance. It certainly can't be confused with leadership.

Favoring "civil unions" that accord all the rights and benefits of marriage -- but that withhold the word marriage, and with it, I guess, society's approval -- amounts to another dodge. I'm concerned here with the way the law sees the relationship, not the way any particular church or religious leader sees it; that's for worshipers, clergy and the Almighty to work out. Marriage is not just a sacrament but also a contract, and the contractual aspect is a matter of statute, not scripture"...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/07/AR2009050703055.html

-snip-

Btw. I very much agree with the positions that this journalist made about gay marriage being all about equal rights under the law. I hope that President Obama will take a strong leadership position on this subject sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 May 09 - 11:07 AM

There is already a Federal definition of marriage, and changing it requires legislation. Pres. Obama cannot do it by executive fiat. This definition is found in Title 1 of the US Code, Chapter 1, Section 7, and reads as follows:

In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word "marriage" means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word "spouse" refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.

The laws governing Federal benefits available to veterans (and their survivors), Social Security recipients (and their survivors) and Federal employees (including health and life insurance and survivors annuities) are all governed by this single paragraph in the Code. Regardless of the existence of a Democratic majority in Congress, it is questionable if he can muster sufficient votes to change this.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 May 09 - 09:15 PM

There is certainly a case for amending Title 1 of the US Code, Chapter 1, Section 7, and I would agree that Obama should show some leadership on this question.

The Catholic Church also needs to do some re-thinking.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 May 09 - 08:02 PM

""Well, with all appropriate respect to the various generals and admirals, I never saw or heard of a gay or lesbian soldier hit on anyone else in my 23 years in the Army, but I certainly encountered more than a few unwelcome heterosexual advances.""


It's perfectly logical that homosexuals don't hit on hetero males.

When a local gay man was asked the question he was amused, and a little puzzled. His response was "Why would I hit on a straight man. HE'S NOT MY TYPE, and I can distinguish between gays and straights at a hundred yards".

Simple, innit?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Maine Makes Same Sex Marriage Legal
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 May 09 - 08:16 PM

Don, is it possible that you didn't read the article that I was commenting on? Specifically, my comment addressed this statement... Team cohesion and concentration on missions would suffer if our troops had to live in close quarters with others who could be sexually attracted to them. We don't need a study commission to know that tensions are inevitable in conditions offering little or no privacy, increasing the stress of daily military life....which seems to indicate that the generals and admirals do think gay men hit on non-gays.