Pets: Hello, Fleas!

Subject: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 09:36 AM

Well, after a flea-free household these many years, they're baaaaaack......

I think they came in on the wonderfully nice dog we dogsat earlier this summer, and waited for fine flea weather to take over while we were away. (The housesitter's health problems must have made the pet picture seem somewhat confusing, but when we got back last night I could see the problem right off.) Whatever the case, we've got flea eggs where the cats curl up to try to get away from their favorite cushy haunts, dogs scratching like mad, a cat I thought would be overfed has lost some weight..... all the signs.

I hope, actually, they're just in the house and not so much in the dogyard. I hate the thought of putting chems in their dogyard, which has never had fleas. I may move the dogyard, not a small undertaking!

So I am off to do battle. Yeah, I know how. When you rent a house that former occupants have left flea-ridden, as has been my lovely experience twice now, you learn the Awful Truth about this battle: they're everywhere. But not upstairs (where pets are not allowed), thank God!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM

awww....*tsk*...it's been a few years since we had to battle the little demons.(I found an old bottle of flea spray while cleaning a storage cabinet recently.)

It's a multi-pronged approach, treating the animals while vacuuming and spraying the carpets and animals' beds, etc.

Have fun!

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:20 AM

I hate fleas. And old roomate had cats that were riddled with the things but he wouldn't do anything about it. The little fuckers didn't bite him but they had a field day with me. They must go for certain blood types only.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:34 AM

multi-pronged approach

Yes.... I know.... but you left out the most important activity: running around screaming like a madwoman while doing the rest.


I did learn a cool new tip at Wikipedia, and I already have all the equipt: A useful trick against fleas is to burn a floating candle in a plate of water with some cleaning agent. Fleas will be attracted to the light and will drown. This trick also works when putting the cleaning agent water under a lamp.

I have a boxful of tea candles and plenty or saucers, and a bottle of soap I don't like but that smells nice. And Hardi is motivated to vacuum as often as I ask, daily if I ask, in the affected areas.

Oh, darn....I think this means that the houseguest for that upcoming church workshop will have to stay with someone else after all.

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:41 AM

(I'd suggest a flea-fry, but I can't say it.)

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:45 AM

Work your way up to it:

Flea-for-all. Flea-fall. Fleabies.

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 10:59 AM

...The little fuckers didn't bite him but they had a field day with me...

They only go for cats and dogs. *GRIN* Sorry but you did set yourself up for that.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:27 AM

There Ain't No Bugs On Me
Lyrics: Traditional
Music: Traditional

Played live once by Jerry with David Grisman, and recorded on "Not For Kids Only"

Chorus 1
Oh there ain't no bugs on me
There ain't no bugs on me
There may be bugs on some of you mugs
But there ain't no bugs on me

Well, the Juney bug comes in the month of June
The lightning bug comes in May
Bed bug comes just any old time
But, they're not going to stay

Chorus 2
Oh there ain't no bugs on me
There ain't no bugs on me
There may be bugs on the rest of you mugs
But there ain't no bugs on me

Well, a bull frog sittin' on a lily pad
Looking up at the sky
The lily pad broke and the frog fell in
He got water all in his eye...ball

[chorus 1]

[Spoken: "Get away from me you horse fly"]

Mosquito he fly high
Mosquito he fly low
If old mosquito lands on me
He ain't a gonna fly no mo'

[chorus 2]

A peanut sittin' on a railroad track
His heart was all a flutter
Along come a choo-choo on the track
Toot! Toot! Peanut butter!

[chorus 1]

Well little bugs have littler bugs
Up on their backs to bite 'em
And the littler bugs have still littler bugs
And so ad infinitum

[chorus 2]

As I went walking through the woods
Humming a tune so gaily
The wind come whistling through the trees
And froze my ukelele

[chorus 1]

Oh there ain't no flies on me
There ain't no flies on me
There may be flies on some of you guys
But there ain't no flies on me

Oh there ain't no lobsters on me
There, ain't no lobsters on me
There may be lobsters on some of you mobsters
But there ain't no lobsters on me

Oh it ain't gonna rain no more no more
It ain't gonna rain no more
How in the heck can I wash my neck
When it ain't gonna rain no more?

Oh it ain't gonna rain no more, no more
It ain't gonna rain no more
How in the hell can the old folks tell
If it ain't gonna rain no more?

[chorus 1]

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: bobad
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:43 AM

Fleas are good for some things.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: GUEST,The Drapier
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:43 AM

Is it too late for my estate to lay claim to one of the verses in that song?

"Big Fleas have little Fleas
Upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little Fleas have littler Fleas,
And so ad infinitum

And those big Fleas themselves in turn
Have bigger Fleas to go on,
And bigger Fleas have bigger Fleas,
And bigger still ... and so on"

J. Swift.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:46 AM

They are as persistent as crotch crickets. Good luck, Susan.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:47 AM

from bobad's link:

...Training fleas in this way simply shows off their natural talents and in no way harms the fleas...

Well THERE's a comfort.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:52 AM

Shampoo the animals with mild herbal shampoos, spray and/or clean the house with orange oil products, and apply beneficial nematodes to the lawn and garden.

Advice from Howard Garrett, the organic "Dirt Doctor" (in Texas, but his radio program is distributed nationally now).

http://www.dirtdoctor.com

SRS

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 12:20 PM

Yeah.....

And keep screaming as I careen from campers' post-vacay cleaning to flea attack.

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 12:23 PM

From the www--information I'm sure you will find fascinating at this time:

"5... 4... 3... 2... 1... Liftoff, that's the countdown for a space shuttle leaving the Earth. The flea when jumping accelerates 50 times faster than a space shuttle. Although fleas cannot fly, they can jump over seven inches high and thirteen inches long, that is about one hundred and fifty times its own length. Without its outer shell it would get smashed by the velocity of the jump, and especially on its landing. Fleas have a well built body for jumping. Did you know that if fleas were the size of humans, they would be able to jump over the St. Paul's Cathedral in London six hundred times for three days!"

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: gnu
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 12:29 PM

On the stall wall... I know... I know... of an awful lot of them...

No sense standing on the toilet seat.
The crabs in here can jump fifteen feet.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 12:30 PM

Now not many people know that.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 03:23 PM

Move to Alaska. We ain't got 'em. Even the vets here say not to waste your money on flea collars.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

My post in reply to Cluin's disappeared-- What's he building in there?

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 05:35 PM

Notice to Alaskans- just wait!

Our area in central Alberta just east of the Rockies was flea-free. They have spread north (or east from B. C.?) and now are within 25 miles of Calgary. Vets here are waiting and hoping for the bonanza in powders and sprays that they will bring when they get into the City.

Nematodes- Gardens here were free of them, but they have come in as well, probably in balled or potted plants. They destroy some plants by eating hair roots, etc. and we try to eliminate them.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 06:00 PM

Frontline and VACUUM! VACUUM! VACUUM!

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: peregrina
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

I'm in the middle of a de-flea campaign (vacuuming, laundry, frontline..).

Read on the web that scattering little bits of diatomaceous earth between floor boards etc will help prevent reinfestation. (Apparently the tiny scratchy particles prevent tiny newly hatched fleas from surviving.) Has anyone tried this? Did it work?

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:24 PM

Sounds to me like it's time to call in the experts. Get the house sprayed by a reputable person who uses a flea-icide that's been tested for safety. Meanwhile, take the pets to the vet for treatment.

Fleas lay their eggs in dark cracks. I don't believe you can vacuum every dark place that a flea egg could be in. How far can a vacuum reach into the space behind a baseboard or inside a couch?

Standard advice is to wash all bedding in hot water. How many blankets/bedspreads are there in today's world that would survive that?

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 11:37 PM

I'm really paranoid about fleas. They carry heartworm.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:18 AM

Heartworm shots- oh my poor wallet! Flat again. In southern Alberta already.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:20 AM

We use HeartGaurd. It's a dab it on like Frontline.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Cluin
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:21 AM

Hello, Fleas
How'd things go for you today?

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:57 AM

I agree with Leeneia about the vacuuming. You may be able to get a small percentage of the flea eggs with a vacuum, but surely not much. As for the adult fleas, they can easily jump far out of the way of the approaching beast. Seems to me that the vacuuming is really for the pet dander and for the tiny bits of dried blood the fleas leave behind on the pets' skin and fur that the pets then scratch off.

But just in case you do get a few eggs with the vacuum cleaner, be sure to empty the bag promptly. Can't hurt to spray the rotating brushes with flea-Raid, too. No sense in letting them hatch and infest your vacuum and spread back out into the room from there!

I swear by the dab-on-the-pet's-neck stuff myself (Frontline and the like). I don't mess with the over-the-counter stuff, though; I get the prescription-strength variety from the vet.

I used to use flea bombs. Does anyone do that anymore?

Euchh.... This thread is starting to make me itch...

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:14 PM

Good Lord, all the advice for a situation I said that I have well in hand!

How?

ALL the rugs in the areas affected are removable, easily-cleaned area rugs a local dude will pick up and clean very affordably. The bare floors beneath are underlayment, not hardwood with crevices, that will easily vacuum and present a more flea-free relief to the dogs while the rugs are out. The rugs won't come back till the dogs stop shedding eggs.

Their dogbeds are easily washed over and over, and will be as things proceed.

The cats were confined to a different area during our absence, with mostly bare floor and one old W2W rug I'll be happy to nuke with chemicals because it's an area used mostly for storage. We rent-- can't tear this one out like I did the others in the past.

Hardi will nuke their dogyard with a chemical using Hardi's Handy Powerwasher to spread the solution, on a schedule that fits the flea life-cycle. Rain will wash it out before long. We have a large yard in the middle of nowhere, with no areas in miles that the chems will wash toward. The dogyard is in limited use now to limit egg shedding and flea transfer in it already; there's an alternate fleafree area (hard surfaced) they'll use for awhile that will be easy to keep eggless.

The upstairs areas (there are two separate upstairses) are totally flealess. Obviously Faulkner won't be coming upstairs for his occasional sleep-with-us opportunities for a bit.

The way this old house divides up into zones is a big plus for us.

Outside professionals are not needed-- I used to run a cleaning business and I know the drill.

Thanks all, but we're going to be fine. I just needed to blow off steam!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:21 PM

Just think... all those extra pets for free.

LTS

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:35 PM

Fleas, reeelease me, let me go,
I don't love you anyyymore...

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 12:36 PM

:~)

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: pdq
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 01:08 PM

He may be suggesting that you play an Engelbert Humperdinck record real loud and see if that drives the varmints away.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 01:34 PM

For a concise and factual summary of what needs to be done, The University of Kentucky Entomology brief pretty well covers the subject. It still leaves a few choices to be made depending on your situation and variety of pets, but should give a good idea of what's available.

While a "guest dog" could bring new fleas to you, in all probability you already had sufficient of your own. It's almost impossible to completely eradicate them anywhere that there are animals. If there are rabbits or field mice in your yard, and even if your pets never go outdoors, it's safe to say that you pets have some fleas even if you never see one.

A more likely cause for a sudden outbreak is that the animal hosts have been absent from their usual locations for a time. Flea eggs and larvae can accumulate unseen, and will mature to the level permitted by competition from their mates. If there are no animals present, they can lurk in dormancy - with more of them approaching adulthood - until a host enters the area. With more eggs "ready to hatch" and more larvae on the verge of adult form, when a host animal reappears they all seem to just "jump out" and the effect can be quite spectacular.

A period of a couple of weeks during which animals are absent can be sufficient for an existing unnotable population to be primed for a horrific outburst. The situation mentioned above suggests the possibility that the pets slept in different places while in the care of the "sitter," and the outburst is simply the result of their return to their more usual beds - or the result of substitute hosts (you) returning to the areas where they've been dormant.

John

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

LOL-- none of the pets were "absent," they were right at home in their usual places.

The guest dog had a particular carpeted haunt outside that Faulkner took over briefly when she left. We had flea-treated her, but he must have picked up a few before the vet saw her and supplied flea-chems. We sent her home with fleas reduced but not totally gone-- and that outside spot had gotten egged by then. My bad-- the rug was slated for removal anyway but in the rush to get out of town on time, it was left in place. There was a little bit of flea sign when we left, but it was under our radar and only becaome really obvious while we were gone-- the petsitter's messages indicated that one of the cats was acting funny, but he'd never seen a flea outbreak and had his own worries.


Example: most cats cruise the kitchen counters when momma's away. Atticus happens not to do that-- it's a weird thing but he doesn't. Yet when we came home he was sleeping on one, and that was my first clue-- he left white sand behind, and we have none. (The eggs of course.) He was trying to get away from the carpeted areas where the fleas jump on him. The washing machine, ditto for sign-- cat on machine, not wanting to jump off; "sand" and "black dust" (bloody fleapoop) under the lid where it had gone through the crevice.


Our petsitter had used that same washer and counters and could have read the sign-- he just missed it, is all. I know him well and can easily see how-- and it's not his fault, either-- but I'm not going to post his private life here to explain it just because from Kansas it seems off base. :~)


Mudcat is so helpful-- full of nice people. But I do actually know what I am doing and what I am evaluating here..... I may not describe every detail every time, and from a distance it's easy to jump to one's own conclusions no matter how inaccurate the picture one may have of what is actually occurring.

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 02:46 PM

I'm just glad it's not me! Grin...sorry, Susan!

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: MaineDog
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 03:53 PM

A daily dip in the salty cove seems to keep them away. When I had cats, though, they wouldn't go swimming, and the little buggers would bite me, right at the top of my socks, (the fleas that is). Lots of vacuuming gets them off floors without poisons.
MD

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 04:01 PM

Sorcha, yer message made me.... itch! :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 07:27 PM

hee hee. As I said, just glad it's not me.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Aug 07 - 09:25 PM

Cleaning up and spraying the yard is rather difficult. You are welcome to come and spray. Acres involved. Other animals going through the property- elk, deer, bears, and smaller stuff, plus cattle from time to time. Even a mountain lion last winter. My daughter's place, where the fleas have shown up.
Still no heartworm in the region, but probably won't be long.

I will look for vet sold dab on stuff.

And how do you insulate your property? I remember living in Texas where the fleas roamed free, not bothered by fences, barriers against poor immigrant Latinos, and anything else one might think of. Never a last round-up to worry about.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 12:12 AM

At the risk of repeating myself, you don't need to use the toxic and noxious chemcials.

Shampoo the animals with mild herbal shampoos, spray and/or clean the house with orange oil products, and apply beneficial nematodes to the lawn and garden.

Advice from Howard Garrett, the organic "Dirt Doctor" (in Texas, but his radio program is distributed nationally now).

http://www.dirtdoctor.com

SRS

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 12:43 AM

Here in the UK, we have a brilliant product called '4Fleas' - a pill you give to your cat which will have the little insect buggers literally dropping off within minutes. If your cat develops bald patches and bleeding sores along the spine after application of 'Frontline' or other liquid flea treatments, it may be the treatment they're allergic to, rather than the fleas - our old black and white, boob-loving cat Max had that problem. Gave him the pills and apart from a litte excessive drooling the first day, he was fine. The fleas left him alone and he regrew all the fur he'd lost.

Now we no longer have Max with us, I've gone back to fleajuice but I have to say, either we've had a massive infestation or it's not been very effective. Soft furnishings and carpets are vacuumed regularly, cat nests cleared out often and slip covers and bedding washed but it's still been a hard year. I'm going back to the pills as soon as this batch of fleajuice is finished!

LTS

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 09:27 PM

Two old tricks from a professional I used to know.

One is the 'floating candle' trick - does work - the more the better.

The other is 'the thumper'. Vibrations such as footsteps etc triger the dormant eggs to hatch. You can build a small 'thumper' device.

These two work well in combination.

Warning - if you wish to also use 'flea bombs' make sure all the candles are extinguished - the carrier gas CAN catch fire/explode.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 10:49 PM

Liz, the pills are used here as well by some vets, for dogs too. Other vets recommend the dab on material (also good for ticks and other parasite besides heartworm). The first application must be early in the season, one month before the fleas come out.

I agree with Stilly River Sage. The toxins kill desirable insects, and are bad for the squirrels and birds and bumblebees that feed and nest in the yard.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 09:56 AM

I'm glad to hear you know what you're doing, Wysiwig. But your first post certainly sounds like a plea for help. Don't blame people for trying to help you.

Also, people posting are not just posting to you, they are posting to the whole world, because anybody might come on and read the information.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:50 PM

The rug man hasn't been yet to pick up the area rugs yet, but the critters are in various stages of "ahhh... relief"/recovery. The one cat we're reducing is too obese to clean herself much, so she'll get some Capstar relief to tide her over as the Frontline takes more lasting effect.

~S~

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: SharonA
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 06:55 PM

What crazy little woman said.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:09 PM

Yeah, here's a real plea for help. Every other word is HELP, right? Bold added for emaphasis.

So I am off to do battle. Yeah, I know how. When you rent a house that former occupants have left flea-ridden, as has been my lovely experience twice now, you learn the Awful Truth about this battle: they're everywhere. But not upstairs (where pets are not allowed), thank God!

No, of course I realize that people will post what they know, and that they know a lot, for whoever needs it, but posts that tried to disabuse me of what I already know were not helpful, even if they were accurate to whatever situation the poster was imagining.

And of course I know I can't control posts-- I don't have that particular control pattern-- but I also know I can post my reaction to what others post, and that I don't like it when people want to control THAT. :~)

~Wet Cat

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: MMario
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 01:26 PM

Oh, darn....I think this means that the houseguest for that upcoming church workshop will have to stay with someone else after all

oh - how awful.

Subject: RE: Pets: Hello, Fleas!
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Aug 07 - 02:24 PM

I know, he took it hard. We were volunteerted for it not by the parish, but by the workshop org. ".... visiting facilitators will stay with the clergy...."

Oh yeah? Maybe that won't work out so good!

~Susan