BS: Question about Scotch

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 07:45 PM

Stilly: When I first discovered Islay malts, I really, really liked Laphroaig. Now it seems a bit over the top with the peat smoke. I guess the palate matures over time - I'm also not as in love with Texas barbecue as I used to be.

Here in the county I live in (Sonoma, Northern California) a Single Malt Society has started up a couple of years ago. I'm a member, and have attended several tastings. One of them featured Bruichladdich, also from Islay, and their products are a bit more subtle.

Apparently there are several companies that buy casks of whisky from distilleries whose product normally goes to the big blenders (e.g. Johnny Walker) and bottle these usually unavailable whiskies, many at cask strength. Gordon & MacPhail, based in Elgin, is one such company. Just looking at their "Connoisseurs Choice" selections will make your mouth water.

Another such company was represented (by a charming Scotsman in kilt) at the most recent tasting, and it was an eye-opener. This is Duncan Taylor, based in Speyside. I tasted a couple of really delicious single malts, which I bought straightaway. One is a 14-year-old Speyside whisky from Dailuane at 46%, from their "Dimensions" line. It's not chill-filtered, and was aged in oak casks. It has a little bit of smoke and a very nice fruitiness with vanilla accents. I've actually seen this one on the shelf at my local Bottle Barn.

The other, also 14 years old at bottling, is a Glenlossie from their "Octave" line, which features whiskies that have been "invigorated by 6 months maturation in reconstructed ex-sherrywood octave casks". In other words, they buy the very large sherry casks and make small barrels out of them, which they then use to further mature the whisky. This one comes in at 54.8% alcohol and has no discernible smoke flavor, but oh the complexity! It's awesome.

Lamentably, as with wine and food, the increasing sophistication of one's palate is accompanied by increasing cost. These two bottles together cost me around $200. I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but I do consider that a worthwhile expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 09:25 PM

MichaelR, that sounds like a great opportunity. It's a slow process to research, sample, give it time to see if you acquire an appreciation for some of these (or know instantly it isn't one for you.) Sharing the costs and having the guidance of others in the group gives more range but I bet you realize there are so many to try and so little time!

DaveH, look at my longer post from yesterday where I linked and named the various affiliations with this store brand. There are a couple of rabbit warrens to follow, i.e., Ian Macleod and William Maxwell.

Those Sheildaig varieties are a good price, but I'd like to establish is what are comparable name brands. I can drink the store brand happily and pay less, but if I wanted to buy a brand name bottle with similar qualities, what would that be?

Kendall, thanks. I do like the Speyside in general, and there are some delicious affordable ones. I found Aberlour and Bunnahabhain to be very similar, but they start at $50 a bottle.

I read a label for Bowmore 12 this evening - it mentions peat and smoke several times - so I held off. I picked up a bottle of Highland Park 12. Much better.

Though I normally wouldn't consider returning a bottle of something that is opened, the folks at Total Wine make the offer, that you can return something if you really don't like it. They want you to give it a chance first, so opened but barely tasted is viewed less favorably than a bottle with a couple of drinks at least out so they know you tried it. I hope they are able to use an open bottle of Laphroaig 10 for free samples - I'd hate to think they have to waste it.

Those of you who have been drinking the smoky ones for a while - I see peat, peat smoke, and smoke all mentioned on descriptions. Is there another kind of smoke than peat smoke? Wood smoke from barrels, perhaps? There are some that can have a smoke taste without the earthy taste - is that earthy bit the peat part?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Apr 13 - 10:10 PM

Many people think all Scotch whiskies are smoky, but that is not the case. The smoke flavor comes from using malted barley that was traditionally dried over a peat fire. Peat was, at one time, the only practical fuel source for many distilleries. These days it's an optional flavor enhancement. I haven't been able to find any information about what other sources of smoke may be in use.

Here is a lengthy explanation of smokiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:10 AM

michaelr, that gives me a hint of what is going on. I went looking for more from the source of that answer. I Googled Dr P. Brossard Scotch whisky (credited at the bottom of that answer you linked to) to come up with a PDF with more information. I take this bit from his essay:

Peat is still largely used in Scotch distilleries, but mainly in the distilleries located in the islands of Skye, Orkney, Mull and Islay. Depending on the structure and the origin of the peat, the duration and temperature of the peat fire, and the distillation, the peaty character might be quite different between the products of two distilleries.

Here is that flavor map, with more information and here is a page about single malt Scotch. Scroll down and see what you can make of that "whisky wheel."

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 01:28 AM

They handed out that flavor "map" at one of the tastings. I guess if you've already experienced some of the extremes it can be useful, but as far as distilleries go, it's by no means comprehensive.

As for the wheel, they have similar things around here for the wine. I can't pretend to be able to taste even a third of the flavors listed, so it's pretty much academic to me.

As someone said, "I don't know much about (something), but I know what I like."

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 06:42 AM

SRS, I don't know where you saw Aberlour at that price but I would never pay that much. Seems to me I bought it for under $30.00 at a store in New Hampshire.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 08:59 AM

Aberlour is regularly 1/2 price at Morrisons. Seeing as I work for them and get 10% discount I have paid about £12.50 a bottle. Trouble is I enjoy it so much, it doesn't last long enough between offers and having paid £12.50 I can't justify paying up to £26!

Sigh.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 09:24 AM

Aberlour 10 year old is £20.00 a bottle in my local Morrisons.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 11:55 AM

Perhaps the best way to experiment is to start with a brand you know you liked, and try others from the same region... noting that **price** is often a good guide to the stature of a brand or age OF a brand within each region.

There are book and online guides to steer you in 'general' directions. If there is a local tasting club...or gathering (Scottish games are an annual event in many locales, and it is common to find samples of folks favorites at clan tables).

I learned VERY early that I did not like the heavy peated stuff like Laphroaig.... and I did like many of the Speyside brands.

I went on, like others, to discover Highland Park, and decided long ago that it would be my choice to be marooned on a desert island with. (as old as possible... but I can't afford the really expensive stuff.)

Now... the thing is, Highland Park is wonderful, but it is like delicious but plain roast beef... it doesn't stand out as an 'unusual' flavor. (as Laphroaig does) If I want my taste buds waked up , I'll go for either Talisker or Springbank. Talisker is... ummmm... an experience. *BOOM*...wow. Springbank has a little tang of peat, and something like a 'salty' flavor. It is one of the few remaining Campbelltown whiskeys, and I love it, even though I don't want it for everyday.

Another one I savor is Cragganmore, which has a 'deeper' (hard for me to describe) that is nice as a nightcap.

And yes, Aberlour is a great whiskey.... and for a relatively inexpensive, but gentle drink, Auchentoshan. Just nice sipping.

The range of Glenmorangies, aged in various types of barrels is always good... you just have to decide what YOU prefer.

And for the daring who like it strong in alcohol, Aberlour's A'bunadu is amazing! YUM!

If only I could afford to try all those other brands... but unless I am offered a taste, I usually just stick with the dozen I know...

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 12:57 PM

Kendall, I suspect it is the variety that the stores choose to carry that costs that much. I'd have to check the range of Aberlour offerings. The store I've been doing a lot of this testing at has the lowest prices I've seen around the region, so I can't imagine they would spike up the price on that one whisky.

BillD, as usual, you give very good advice. I like your characterization of the Highland Park. I'll keep in mind your Talisker or Springbank remarks - the Sheildaig Highland I liked is characterized as having things you describe in Springbank.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 02:54 PM

That would be A'Bunadh, it means the original, I have 2 bottles at the moment, a 60.5%abv and a 59.7%abv, both glorious.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Apr 13 - 07:05 PM

Yes, have to agree about A'Bunadh!Magic stuff, and not just because it's that strong! Another Robin Laing song, by the way! - he suggests it goes well with dark chocolate!

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 02:18 AM

I just found an Aberlour 12 year at Total Wine and spirits for $30 that is probably the one Kendall was talking about. I'll have to look at the shelf to see what else they have in that section.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 10:22 AM

That's the one. I have to say, Aberlour is only a bit better than Glen Morangie, Glen Livet or Glenfiddich.
I will gladly accept any of those.
Even Johnnie Walker black is ok with enough diet Pepsi! LOL (Inside joke)

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 11:07 AM

Akmost any Scotch goes well with dark chocolate(it's the only way I got thru a gift bottle of very mediocre scotch).... or vice-versa. You take a small nibble of chocolate, then a sip of liquid ambrosia... and let the chocolate dissolve on your tongue.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 04:30 PM

I should say that I found it on their online site, I haven't seen it in the store. It's one that might need to be requested.

That chocolate trick works with a lot of good drinks. I love chocolate with a strong brew of black tea, like English Breakfast.

I'll give that Laphroaig one more try, with a little water, as they suggest. Supposed to "open it up" a bit. If the water doesn't jump out and run away . . .

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 05:15 PM

Bill D care to name the scotch?

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Apr 13 - 06:48 PM

The bad one? Glen Gyle-8 yrs old

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:32 AM

I'm with biLL on this. Irish Whiskey to me is far smoother than its Scottish counterpart. The only scotch I have found that is to my taste is Glenturret. A lovely drop.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 06:39 AM

Duggans dew o' Kirkintilloch is a scotch, but it is vile!

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Max Johnson
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 07:09 AM

A Sikh friend gave me a bottle of Amrut for my birthday.
It's really good. Peaty, but not as much as an Islay. A little bit like Highland Park, but smoother. I'm lovin' it.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 12:08 PM

Stilly: yes, always add water! Both the Scottish presenters at our tastings emphasized this.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Apr 13 - 10:47 PM

I tried adding water - I couldn't drink it. I have to throw in the towel on that one. Water seemed to make it stronger.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 01:25 AM

Hmm, really? I can't (don't like to) drink whisky without water, especially cask strength. The dilution is what makes fire water palatable.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 06:53 AM

SRS, try diet Pepsi. running for cover

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 12:56 PM

I 'can' drink cask strength straight, but just a wee bit of water seems to 'open' the flavor and make it a fuller experience. I don't add enough water to really amount to dilution.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 01:06 PM

I checked the online listings of a couple of stores here and found most of the types discussed here are available locally.
I may try a few that sounded good in the descriptions posted here.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Elmore
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 01:23 PM

Can't afford the good stuff. Have to drink the cheap stuff with a splash of Drambuie. Not bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 01:29 PM

I don't drink any diet drinks, and I stopped drinking soft drinks several years ago. Back in the day I used to like a rum and coke. I also drink gin and tonic, which is a bit carbonated.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 03:02 PM

Good juices are available, so none of the cola stuff, diet or otherwise. Enough sugar in my pastries and pies.

I like a Bombay gin over ice. A fine tequila over ice is acceptable as well.
I have a little water on the side with my single malt.

I used to make mint juleps in season, but haven't for a long time. A good sour mash bourbon is needed for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Jim McLean
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 03:35 PM

I had a birthday card from Laphroaig yesterday!

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 04:30 PM

DIET SODA + ALCOHOL = BAD IDEA is an article I just found in my facebook feed. From Dr. Weil.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 22 Apr 13 - 07:22 PM

SRS, I was joking. I would never ruin scotch with any kind of soft drink. John MacKenzie knows to what I refer.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:34 AM

Jim, I now own several square feet of Islay courtesy of Laphroaig.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 03:42 AM

Davey H, I think I have one square inch!

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 07:25 AM

Jim, with every bottle of Laphroaig you get [ if you claim it ] lease of 1 square foot of land by the Laphroaig water supply stream, for your lifetime.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 09:46 AM

I figured you were, Kendall, but that article came along and just begged to be posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Apr 13 - 08:39 PM

I was over to return the bottle. Too bad they probably have to toss it, unless someone on the staff likes that type. Perhaps. I found the Aberlour you drink, Kendall, at about $30. I'll sample that one soon.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: kendall
Date: 24 Apr 13 - 07:51 AM

You will never buy Johnnie Walker again! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 03:13 AM

Well spotted on the Morrisons front, Dave H. The offer ran out yesterday but I got 2 bottles of 10 year old Aberlour for £40 before it did and had a voucher that gave me £10 off any spend over £35 - So I effectively paid £15 a bottle :-)

Cheers (hic)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 07:24 AM

It was my birthday last week and the missus bought me two small bottles of Jura, one Superstition, the other Diurach's Own. The latter is sixteen years old and just sublime...especially with the previously mentioned splash of water to wake it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 11:41 AM

I have a bottle of Highland Park 12-year-old and one of the Shieldaig Highland Finest Old to compare. They overall have very similar characteristics. I would say that there are a couple of more detectable notes in the Highland Park, it has a kind of honey or vanilla finish and not quite as much smoke as in the Shieldaig. But at half the price of Highland Park, the Sheildaig Highland is a very good close second.

I think you can mail order from this place, though I am not sure if it is just wine or if they also send spirits. I suppose I could work out something if someone in the U.S. wants me to make a run and mail something you can't get. There are under 100 stores around the U.S. It might make a nice field trip! I like the variety of wine these folks carry, they have some of the varieties that my grocery store doesn't usually carry and the smaller liquor stores might have a single sample of.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 09:14 PM

Never heard of Shieldaig Highland ... but ANY detectable smoke in Highland Park would surprise me.

(well, their web pages quotes one review: "...a drift of peat smoke.", so I guess there is VERY light addition.) fooled me!

I am not surprised to read : "..we have also received World's Best Single Malt** for Highland Park 21 year old."

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 13 - 10:42 PM

There is a hint, Bill, but only a hint. The Shieldaig is a store brand of the place where I put links. Further up the thread is a breakdown of the places they source the whisky the sell under that label. There are stores in Laurel and Towson. Is either of them near you?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 02:40 PM

Hmmm..Laurel is about 20-25 min. away. Towson is where my son went to college and it is about an hour away.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 13 - 10:48 PM

I think you'll be amazed at the variety they carry.

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: GUEST,wullie
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:17 AM

try and get to Islay whisky festival end of may each year every distillary has an open day its a long fesytivaleat at Ardbeg for fantastic food
wllie

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Wullie
Date: 01 May 13 - 06:26 AM

tHave to say there are other great places to eat not least the Islay hotel will be there in three weeks

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 13 - 09:46 PM

Wullie, we expect a report back! Enjoy your trip!

Subject: RE: BS: Question about Scotch
From: Bill D
Date: 10 May 13 - 10:49 PM

Well, it seems Total Wine is 'possibly' easier to get to in Virginia for me. Depends on time of day. (the Laurel, Md store is at he far end of Laurel from where I usually visit)

I will program 3 different locations into my aged head, and try to check 'em out.