No such thing as a B-sharp

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 06:39 PM

I wish we had something similar to your group locally but I've not heard of anything. I was thinking more of the solo/concerto stuff when I made that comment though. I love listening to Michaela Petrie, for example, and Michael Copley.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 06:46 PM

She's amazing, Don, thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: ripov
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:05 PM

I've been following this thread for a while, but couldn't add anything you guys hadn't already said. But I just want to say thanks for those links in the last few posts, I hadn't realised how much marvellous stuff was out there! And as Tootler implied this music was written not so much to be listened to as to be played; it makes your fingers itch when you hear it!
Incidentally the Pachabel canon (http://imslp.org/wiki/Canon_and_Gigue_in_D_major_(Pachelbel,_Johann)), is appearing on the folk scene, although in true folk fashion it never sounds quite the same twice.
Regarding its speed, I wouldn't think it should go too fast, as it's followed by a (not very inspiring) jig!

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Tootler
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 04:27 PM

Smokey,

I agree the Baroque concertos are a different matter. Very much virtuoso pieces.

Don,

I don't quite know what your confused? message was referring to but if it was to my post just above it, then I was replying to a comment by Smokey a couple of posts previously.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:09 PM

I think that was my fault, Tootler - more misplaced (UK northern) humour. Apologies for any confusion.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 05:55 PM

Smokey, it was just me going "Du-u-u-uh" and drooling a bit. I was read "2'27" as "two feet, twenty-seven inches" rather than "two minutes and twenty-seven seconds." I found myself sort of hanging there in empty space. Then, a bit later, it sank in that you were speaking of two minutes and twenty-seven seconds into the video.

I went back, listened to it again, and heard the extraneous little "twang!" All came clear.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 06:22 PM

Sorry 'bout that, Don. I have a reputation as a miserable northern git to maintain, so it was my duty to point out the one bum note. You have to wonder how they're taught though. Obviously there's immense talent there, but discipline like that at such an early age surely doesn't just appear on its own.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 11:16 PM

Yeah, I've wondered a lot about that, too. On the one hand, if all goes well, by the time the little lady matures to the point where she really grows to understand the music and have a real feel for it, just about all the technical problems involved in playing should be well conquered and she can devote her attention to the music rather than the notes. For example, that piece (Francisco Tárrega's Requerdos de la Alhambra or "Memories of the Alhambra"—an opulent Moorish palace in Granada), is one I can play, along with a couple of other Tárrega pieces. Technically, she can play it a lot better than I can (except that her tremolo tends to "gallop" a bit in a few spots), but I think I play it with more "feeling" than she does. But in a few years, she'll get there.

But—is she doing this because she wants to, or because adults are pushing her? More than one talented kid has been forced to take lessons and practice assiduously by their parents, only to toss the instrument in a corner and run screaming from the house the moment they got a chance.

But on the other hand, there are those like Segovia. He fell in love with the sound of the guitar when he was really small (four, some say) and begged his father for guitar lessons. His father was a church organist, and regarded the guitar as "the instrument of the gypsies," and gave young Andés the option of piano or violin, neither of which appealed to him. Segovia senior was afraid his son would wind up hanging out with gypsies if he took up the guitar, so he put his foot down. Counterproductive. Segovia, very young indeed, did start hanging out with the gypsies, getting them to show him things on the guitar. He didn't go for flamenco, of course, but they taught him his basic technique. Very young. Sixish. He simply wouldn't be put off.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 04:24 PM

I know precious little of Korean culture so it's hard to make assumptions or judgements. I hope she's happy and progresses as you describe. I have mixed feelings about performers as young as that though. As you say, the musicality lags behind at the expense of the technical achievement, but with a grounding like that she stands a good chance of being truly great once she's mastered 'the other side' of it all.

I know someone who had a go on Segovia's guitar once, he reckoned the action was about 3/4" at the twelfth fret, but he could be heard clearly by all in the Albert Hall with no amplification whatsoever. I'd love to have seen him.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 05:34 PM

I know a young woman who was a heading-for-world-class gymnast at the same age as that guitarist. Nobody forced her to practice, she just got obsessed with it and spent all her free time at the gym. She had a rather Aspergerish personality. If she'd stuck at it for another year or two she'd have been the next Olga Korbut.

Instead she first discovered skateboarding and then real life. I think she's happier the way she is now than the way she could have been.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:13 PM

Smokey,

If you're interested in finding a recorder group, where are you? I live in Middlesbrough

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 07:17 PM

I've heard Segovia several times when his concert itinerary took him through Seattle, and met him and had a chance to talk with him briefly on two occasions.

One was when the Seattle Classic Guitar Society asked him to do a brief question and answer session for the Society the day after his concert and he agreed. He fielded questions for about an hour (most interesting!). Then, as the session was breaking up, someone slipped me a piece of paper with an address on it and muttered mysteriously that there was going to be a little gathering, and I might like to drop in. I did, and as the host ushered me into the living room, there, in the big easy chair in the corner, sat The Maestro, pipe in one hand, brandy snifter in the other. About a dozen of us sat around in Bill James's living room and chatted with Segovia.

One fellow was questioning Segovia about his particular interpretation of a Bach piece. Segovia explained his ideas about the piece, but the guy saw it a bit differently, and he wouldn't let it go. Finally, Segovia asked, "May I ask how old you are?"

A bit surprised, the fellow responded, "I'm thirty-six."

Segovia, taking his glasses off and cleaning them with his handkerchief said, "Promise me one thing:   don't try to play Bach until you're at least fifty-five."

That ended that conversation!

I mentioned to him that, although I struggled as best I could to play a number of pieces written for the guitar, my main interest was in accompanying British Isles and American folk songs and ballads. He nodded and smiled and allowed as how that was a very honorable role for the guitar.

A few years later, the day following one of his concerts there was a reception for him a Ward Irwin's house in Bellevue, across Lake Washington from Seattle. I wound up sitting in the front seat of Bill James's car, with Segovia and his new bride sitting in the back seat. Pleasant general conversation on the way to Ward's house. Charming and gracious man. His new wife, quite young and lovely, didn't say much. She didn't speak English.

One of the young women in the guitar society couldn't resist a snide comment out of the corner of her mouth about Segovia being "a dirty old man!"

Well, wotthehell, anyway!

Segovia was going to be in Seattle for another day, and he asked Ward if he could tell him where he might hire a car and driver so he could show his wife around the area. Ward offered to do the honors, and Segovia graciously accepted. So Ward and his wife got to spend the following day with Segovia and his new bride.

There is very upscale guitar store here in Seattle called "The Rosewood Guitar." You can drop a real wad of money in that place. Lot's of high-priced lumber in there, and I did buy a very nice quality instrument there a few decades ago. Steve Novacek, who was proprietor back then, showed me one particular guitar he had in stock. He said that this was the same model José Ramirez that Segovia favored. I tried it, and it had a gawdawful high action at the 12th fret. I commented to Steve about it, and he said that it definitely affects the volume of the guitar—but it takes some getting used to. You develop hands you can crush walnuts with!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 08:22 PM

One of the young women in the guitar society couldn't resist a snide comment out of the corner of her mouth about Segovia being "a dirty old man!"

I doubt there was anything snide about it. From what I've heard, he was.

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:45 PM

Well, knowing the young woman, she was given to snide remarks. But then, it appears Segovia did get around a bit.

From Wikipedia:

"Segovia's first wife was Adelaida Portillo (marriage in 1918). Segovia's second wife (marriage in 1935) was the pianist Paquita Madriguera, who also made some piano roll recordings. From 1944, he maintained a relationship with Brazilian singer and guitarist Olga Praguer Coelho, which was to last for over a decade. Segovia married Emilia Magdalena del Corral Sancho in 1962. [This was the young woman that I met.] They had one son, Carlos-Andrés de Segovia y del Corral."

I heard that sometimes when Segovia was away on concert tour, Emilia would put on one of his recordings, then young Carlos-Andrés, barely more than a toddler, would examine the phonograph very carefully, asking, "Papa? Papa?"

I have one of Olga Coelho's (Brazilian singer) recordings. The liner notes say that Segovia thought rather highly of her. I thought they were talking about her guitar playing. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:27 PM

Nothing wrong with being a dirty old man - it's always been one of my ambitions and arguably the most realistic of them. I haven't far to go, and I've always practised diligently.

Great tales, Don, much thanks.

Tootler:- I'm in Derbyshire but I have a sister near Stokesley. If I'm ever up there at the right time..

Subject: RE: No such thing as a B-sharp
From: Smokey.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:52 PM

It's a good job that guitar shop isn't near me - they'd never get me out.. You can never have too many guitars in my 'umble opinion, but sadly, money isn't what it used to be.