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BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 23 Jan 06 - 08:25 PM What are your criteria for documentation? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Peace Date: 23 Jan 06 - 08:27 PM "What are your criteria for documentation?" The same might be asked of you, GUEST. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: .Woody Date: 24 Jan 06 - 11:54 AM "The Hunting of the President" = journalistic opinion by left wing pundits, totaly devoid of facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: .Woody Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:04 PM "For his brave and determined pursuit of the truth in the case of the death of White House Counsel Vince Foster; for his investigative efforts in the death of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown; for his leadership and risk-taking in the founding of NewsMax Media in 1998; and for his inspired devotion to conservative principles. Chris Ruddy endures many attacks from the left (e.g.: the hatchet job during his appearance on the TV program "60-Minutes") as he fights relentlessly for the country he loves, America." http://www.youdontsay.org/Gff-rudy.htm |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Amos Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:08 PM LOL! How mellerdramatic!! Does he find Commies under every bed and threats to our way-of-life in every coffee house? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 24 Jan 06 - 01:37 PM Guest: What are your criteria for documentation? You might click through the links I gave you. Or look at the footnotes in "The Hunting Of The President". Woody: "The Hunting of the President" = journalistic opinion by left wing pundits, totaly devoid of facts. Nonsense, of course. Have you even read it? Lots of references there, should you be so inclined as to actually educate yourself. I notice you put "Chris Ruddy" and "hatchet job" in the same paragraph. But it needs some formatting. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 24 Jan 06 - 07:45 PM What are your criteria for documentation? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 24 Jan 06 - 08:05 PM Guest: What are your criteria for documentation? Varies, but generally cites to MSM newspaper articles is a reasonable one. I'd say that multiple sources helps establish validity, and I find that reading a compendium of different sources and slants amd trying to find the "LGM" or the "middle", or synthesizing a coherent picture from various accounts, is a useful thing to do. Well-sourced and/or referenced documenation is generally more believable, but maybe that's my academic background showing through.... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 24 Jan 06 - 10:19 PM We all know MSM sucks goat balls. DeLay's most vocal accusers include a cluster of self-styled "ethics watchdog" groups, among which Common Cause, Democracy 21, Public Citizen, Public Campaign and The Campaign Legal Center have special prominence.(9) All of the above-named groups have received large contributions from Soros' Open Society Institute. Common Cause has received $650,000; Democracy 21, $300,000; Public Citizen, $275,000; and Public Campaign, $1.3 million.(10) The Campaign Legal Center acknowledges on its Web site that it too has received "generous financial support" from the Open Society Institute as well as from other leftwing foundations. In March of this year, the activist group Campaign for America's Future (CAF) joined forces with the Public Campaign Action Fund to launch a $75,000 TV ad campaign in targeted Congressional districts, portraying Tom DeLay as corrupt. Both partners in the anti-DeLay ad campaign have received heavy funding from Soros. CAF — a subsidiary of the Institute for America's Future (IAF) — has received more than $300,000 from Soros' Open Society Institute. The other partner, the Public Campaign Action Fund, is an affiliate of the afore-mentioned Public Campaign, which has received $1.3 million from Soros.(11) The propaganda din from Soros-sponsored "watchdog" groups helps feed the ever-hungry media with anti-Delay stories. The Soros Book Machine The Soros Noise Machine also struck through an investigative book called The Hammer: God, Money and the Rise of the Republican Congress, written by two Texas journalists named Lou Dubose and Jan Reid. Co-author Dubose appears as a commentator in the still-unfinished documentary film The Big Buy, in which leftwing filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck chronicle Ronnie Earle's pursuit of Tom DeLay.(12) Dubose's and Reid's book The Hammer was published in October 2004 by Public Affairs Books of New York, an imprint of The Perseus Books Group, which in turn is owned by Perseus LLC, a merchant bank and fund management company, with offices in New York and Washington, DC. The chairman and CEO of Perseus LLC, Frank H. Pearl, also happens to be the founder and chairman of Perseus Books. More to the point, Mr. Pearl and Mr. Soros are business partners, whose collaborations include such ventures as Perseus-Soros Management LLC, Perseus-Soros Partners LLC and Perseus-Soros Biopharmaceutical Fund. Given the close partnership between these two men, we should hardly be surprised to learn that Mr. Pearl's Public Affairs book imprint — the same imprint which published the anti-DeLay title The Hammer — also happens to have published many books by George Soros, including The Crisis of Global Capitalism, Underwriting Democracy, George Soros on Globalization, The Bubble of American Supremacy and the forthcoming George Soros on Freedom. Transparency The money trail strongly suggests that George Soros is implicated in the plot to frame Tom DeLay. NOTES 1. Marc Morano, "Soros Conviction for Insider Trading Upheld in French Court," Cybercast News Service (CNSnews.com), March 24, 2005 2. Lou Dubose, "Senatorial Courtesy: Will John McCain Let Republican Perps Walk?", The Texas Observer, August 26, 2005 3. Sharon Kehnemul Liss, "DeLay Blasts `Leftwing Syndicate'", FoxNews.com, April 20, 2005; Richard Poe, "The Soros Noise Machine," MoonbatCentral.com, March 20, 2005 4. Andrew C. McCarthy, "Ronnie Earle Should Not be a Prosecutor", National Review Online, October 6, 2005; Byron York, "Dollars for Dismissals," National Review Online, June 20, 2005; Peter Flaherty, "Texas Smear Machine Targets DeLay", Cybercast News Service (CNSNews.com), September 23, 2004 5. "Hammer Time: Ronnie Earle Finally Gets His Man," The Wall Street Journal Online (OpinionJournal.com), September 29, 2005 6. S.C. Gwynne,"The Daughter Also Rises",Texas Monthly, August 2004, p 112; David Horowitz and Richard Poe, "The Shadow Party" (Parts I-III), FrontPageMagazine.com, October 6, 7, 11, 2004 7. Cliff Kincaid, "George Soros and the Press", Accuracy in Media (AIM.org), April 13, 2005; Ed Morrisey, "Inside McCain's Reform Institute", Captain's Quarters, March 9, 2005; Richard Poe, "John McCain Gets Soros Cash," MoonbatCentral.com, March 10, 2005 8. Richard Poe, "Pewgate: Battle of the Blogosphere," FrontPageMagazine.com, March 25, 2005 9. Alexander Bolton, "Watchdogs in Soros's Pocket: GOP," The Hill (CNSnews.com), March 23, 2005; Michelle Malkin, "Wobbly Watchdogs," michellemalkin.com, June 22, 2004 10. "The Soros Agenda: Free Speech for Billionaires Only," The Wall Street Journal Online (OpinionJournal.com), January 3, 2004 11. Anne E. Kornblut, "DeLay's Critics are Numerous, So He Sees a Conspiracy," San Francisco Chronicle, October 2, 2005 12. Byron York, "Coming Soon, the Ronnie Earle Movie," National Review Online, September 29, 2005; Byron York, "The Movie: Ronnie Earle on a Mission from God," National Review Online, September 30, 2005 http://freerepublic.info/focus/f-news/1519089/posts |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 25 Jan 06 - 06:02 PM Guest: Blue clickies are your friend. I'd rather hear your thoughts here, rather than have you simply parrot stuff from FreeperLand. Shows you're thinking about what you said, you know..... We all know MSM sucks goat balls. There's a "lot of stuff 'we' know that just ain't so." But the MSM gets the vast majority of the facts right. There's cases where they're perhaps a bit too willing to spout the latest RNC "talking points" unrebutted, or perhaps they've gotten just too lazy. But FWIW, Deborah Howell did finally 'admit' that her facts were wrong about Abramoff giving to Democrats ('facts' that were curiously identical to what the Republicans have been pushing through the Mighty Wurlitzer like it's the only song they know for weeks now) ... and it did take a bunch of screaming by liberals to get her to do even that.... As for the commentatirs and columnists, there's where you start to get a bit farther afield from the facts ... and generally to the benefit of the 'story' the RNC is trying to push. But, if you read enough actual articles, you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on. Perhaps you have your favourite stories of MSM incompetence. If so, out with 'em and we'll look to see if your charges have any truth to them.... I'll be waiting here. DeLay's most vocal accusers include a cluster of self-styled "ethics watchdog" groups, among which Common Cause, Democracy 21, Public Citizen, Public Campaign and The Campaign Legal Center have special prominence.(9) You sure picked a noteworthy horse to hitch your cart to there. DeLay's "most vocal accusers" would surely include Texas DA Earle, the grand jury that indicted him, the House Ethics committee that cited him for multiple ethics violations, and last but not least, the people of his supposedly rock-ribbed bastion of Republicanism, Sugarland, who would favour "any Democrat" over DeLay 49% to 36%. In fact, it's a pretty rocky road for that paragon of Republican values, who's such a good buddy with Jack Abramoff, and an exemplar of Republican family values, so much so that he offered lobbyist the chance to pour champagne all over his daughter in a hot tub. Yesindeedy, you got a good one there. I wouldn't fault you for following behind DeLay and sniffing his posterior, all the way through the gates of Leavenworth..... All of the above-named groups have received large contributions from Soros' Open Society Institute. Common Cause has received $650,000; Democracy 21, $300,000; Public Citizen, $275,000; and Public Campaign, $1.3 million.(10) The Campaign Legal Center acknowledges on its Web site that it too has received "generous financial support" from the Open Society Institute as well as from other leftwing foundations. Imagine that. Some one has the balls to say "Enough's enough" with all this Republican cronyism, corruption, and graft, and has the measn to try and do something about it. In March of this year, the activist group Campaign for America's Future (CAF) joined forces with the Public Campaign Action Fund to launch a $75,000 TV ad campaign in targeted Congressional districts, portraying Tom DeLay as corrupt. Easy work, I'd say. But you may be right; DeLay's goose may be burnt to a crisp already, and it might be smart to reallocate the money to some of the many other corrupt Republicans. Thanks for the tip. Both partners in the anti-DeLay ad campaign have received heavy funding from Soros. CAF � a subsidiary of the Institute for America's Future (IAF) � has received more than $300,000 from Soros' Open Society Institute. The other partner, the Public Campaign Action Fund, is an affiliate of the afore-mentioned Public Campaign, which has received $1.3 million from Soros.(11) The propaganda din from Soros-sponsored "watchdog" groups helps feed the ever-hungry media with anti-Delay stories. Ummm, the person responsible for all the Delay "stories" is DeLay. The Soros Book Machine The Soros Noise Machine also struck through an investigative book called The Hammer: God, Money and the Rise of the Republican Congress, written by two Texas journalists named Lou Dubose and Jan Reid. And good journalists too. Unlike the crap that Regnery Press puts out. Co-author Dubose appears as a commentator in the still-unfinished documentary film The Big Buy, in which leftwing filmmakers Mark Birnbaum and Jim Schermbeck chronicle Ronnie Earle's pursuit of Tom DeLay.(12) Did you have a point? Oh, IC. You're disappointed that there's no conservatives or Republicans who have come forth to denounce DeLay and his sleaze. Imagine that. But then again, they don't call him "The Hammer" for nothing, and if he can't buy your support (like he did with that one Republican congressman who was balking but finally "saw the light"), he'll put you on the s***-list and you'll never see the inside of a committee room again (or any pork for your district, or they'll run someone against you next primary and dump tons of funding on them). Unfortunately for DeLay, he may have to adjust his 'bribery' tactics in the future towards keeping his fat a$$ from belonging to some really nasty con..... OBTW, what did FreeperVille have to say about the "Dukester" ... before he pleaded guilty, that is? Dubose's and Reid's book The Hammer was published in October 2004 by Public Affairs Books of New York, an imprint of The Perseus Books Group, which in turn is owned by Perseus LLC, a merchant bank and fund management company, with offices in New York and Washington, DC. The chairman and CEO of Perseus LLC, Frank H. Pearl, also happens to be the founder and chairman of Perseus Books. More to the point, Mr. Pearl and Mr. Soros are business partners, whose collaborations include such ventures as Perseus-Soros Management LLC, Perseus-Soros Partners LLC and Perseus-Soros Biopharmaceutical Fund. Given the close partnership between these two men, we should hardly be surprised to learn that Mr. Pearl's Public Affairs book imprint � the same imprint which published the anti-DeLay title The Hammer � also happens to have published many books by George Soros, including The Crisis of Global Capitalism, Underwriting Democracy, George Soros on Globalization, The Bubble of American Supremacy and the forthcoming George Soros on Freedom. Did you have a point? Transparency The money trail strongly suggests that George Soros is implicated in the plot to frame Tom DeLay. Gonna say it's a frame job when they frog-march him off? Say, did you hear that it was Abramoff who was reportedly shopping pictures around of Abramoff and Dubya? You Republicans just don't know how to pick your friends, eh? But I imagine that story must, considering that Abramoff has copped a plea, be making DeLay's sphincter pucker like a old two-bit whore's desperate lips.... NOTES 1. Marc Morano, "Soros Conviction for Insider Trading Upheld in French Court," Cybercast News Service (CNSnews.com), March 24, 2005 Oh, yeah. "Cybercast News Service". Another in the line of "Jeff Gannon/Guckert" faux "news outlets" pretending to be something other than cheap shills for the Republicans. 2. Lou Dubose, "Senatorial Courtesy: Will John McCain Let Republican Perps Walk?", The Texas Observer, August 26, 2005 3. Sharon Kehnemul Liss, "DeLay Blasts `Leftwing Syndicate'", FoxNews.com, April 20, 2005; Richard Poe, "The Soros Noise Machine," MoonbatCentral.com, March 20, 2005 ROFLMAO. Faux Snooze. Right. The ones that put on the liar Hannity, and Mr. "Loofah"/"I won a Peabody"/"Shut up, shut up, shut UP!" O'Reilly. The name for the other site speaks for itself. 4. Andrew C. McCarthy, "Ronnie Earle Should Not be a Prosecutor", National Review Online, October 6, 2005; Byron York, "Dollars for Dismissals," National Review Online, June 20, 2005; Peter Flaherty, "Texas Smear Machine Targets DeLay", Cybercast News Service (CNSNews.com), September 23, 2004 The National Review Online. Opinion columns there. Say, when I said references, I didn't mean circular ones. At some point, the references should point to something other than opinion pieces; you know, like a real, straight-up, news article? 5. "Hammer Time: Ronnie Earle Finally Gets His Man," The Wall Street Journal Online (OpinionJournal.com), September 29, 2005 The WSJ is interesting. The actual news there is pretty straight-forward, and on the up-and-up. The editorial pages is filled with the fulminations of RW hacks. I will give them credit; they do keep the two separated. But don't make the mistake of using the WSJ's news credibility to prop up its editorial staff. 6. S.C. Gwynne,"The Daughter Also Rises",Texas Monthly, August 2004, p 112; David Horowitz and Richard Poe, "The Shadow Party" (Parts I-III), FrontPageMagazine.com, October 6, 7, 11, 2004 7. Cliff Kincaid, "George Soros and the Press", Accuracy in Media (AIM.org), April 13, 2005; Ed Morrisey, "Inside McCain's Reform Institute", Captain's Quarters, March 9, 2005; Richard Poe, "John McCain Gets Soros Cash," MoonbatCentral.com, March 10, 2005 "Captain's Quarters", eh? Cap'n Ed claimed he was for robust discussion, but when I got under the skin of his sycophantic hangers-on over there, he banned me. Since then it's tunred into pretty much a circle-jerk of the latest in Republican talking points. As Ed's "fame" has grown, he's sold his soul to Satan. As long as he spouts the party line, they invite him to all kinds of ERW thingies, like their "Justice Sunday" screechfest with all the Dominionists singing Hallelujah at the thought of a Republican/Jesus alliance to herald the new millenium.... 8. Richard Poe, "Pewgate: Battle of the Blogosphere," FrontPageMagazine.com, March 25, 2005 Another RW screech machine. 9. Alexander Bolton, "Watchdogs in Soros's Pocket: GOP," The Hill (CNSnews.com), March 23, 2005; Michelle Malkin, "Wobbly Watchdogs," michellemalkin.com, June 22, 2004 Oh. Ms. Malkin. The "Kerry shot himself on purpose" wingnut. She's never apologised for that hackery. After all, it's her duty to sling mud for the party, why apologise? 10. "The Soros Agenda: Free Speech for Billionaires Only," The Wall Street Journal Online (OpinionJournal.com), January 3, 2004 11. Anne E. Kornblut, "DeLay's Critics are Numerous, So He Sees a Conspiracy," San Francisco Chronicle, October 2, 2005 Ahhh, yes. A voice of sanity here. Reporting the news. Everyone (or at least most rational people) thinks that Delay's a crook and a slimeball, so, according to DeLay, they're crazy and he's the Virgin Mary. 12. Byron York, "Coming Soon, the Ronnie Earle Movie," National Review Online, September 29, 2005; Byron York, "The Movie: Ronnie Earle on a Mission from God," National Review Online, September 30, 2005 Strange that all your news seems to come only from certified Republican-Approved(TM) sources. No wonder you don't seem to know what's going on. http://freerepublic.info/focus/f-news/1519089/posts Yep, a Freeper reader (if not participant). You know, over there, they censor anyone who pokes holes in their "arguments". Here, unfortunately for you, you'll have to face some opposition ... and a dose of reality. Hey, I'll give you a chance: You can dump DeLay right now, and I won't hold it against you when he goes up the river. OK? Same deal for Bob Ney, Bill Frist, Ken Blackwell, Tom Noe, Richard Pombo, Conrad Burns, etc.... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 26 Jan 06 - 01:08 PM Why are Liberals so nasty, sarcastic and hostile? All I have to do is mention Soros and they go into hyperdrive attack mode. They assume the position of being better and smarter and licensed to be assholes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 26 Jan 06 - 01:56 PM Guest: Why are Liberals so nasty, sarcastic and hostile? ROFLMAO. From a person who touts (and cites) the work of some of the scummiest crew around, from Chris Ruddy, who has accused Bill Clinton for multiple murders, to the Freepers with their "Hitlery" and "KKKlinton" stuff..... All I have to do is mention Soros and they go into hyperdrive attack mode. In case you didn't notice, I didn't spend much time on Soros other that to say I believe he's a man of principles and doing a valuable public service. They assume the position of being better and smarter and licensed to be assholes. Nah. Just trying to refute some of the RW "talking points" you've been fed by the Mighty Wurlitzer of the Republican party, which is still busily trying to defend what is going to go down in the annals of history as perhaps the worst maladministration ever.... "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." -- Commander Codpice, trying to brazen it out once more but as usual completely clueless. "Bring it on." -- a remark just as stoopid, but one which arguably has had the sad effect of encouraging the killing of many fine young American soldiers. That's barely skimming the surface of his astounding and horrifying incompetence. * * * * Look, "Guest", if you're feeling uncomfortable, no one is making you stay here. Feel free to bow out at any time; you might find things a bit more "genteel" over at Freeper.com.... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM I can put up with your Gestapo tactics. Liberals think that if they are nasty enough people won't challenge them for fear of being attacked. Hey man, laugh at facts and spew all the rhetoric you want. You have a reputation to keep up. $oros is an asshole. The moneybags behind moveon.org amongst others. "Soros unashamedly admits to making money by exploiting market anomalies, even if this meant impoverishing nations. Soros then does an about turn and espouses the need for social values, in order to curb greed, and bring sanity to the markets." M.G.Pawley - South Africa "He [Soros] is portrayed as someone who can be offended if a leader of a country where he is involved philanthropically is insufficiently subservient; who will consort with an autocratic regime in order to see his programs carried out; and who is intent on imposing his influence generally on an ever-expanding area of the world." (Connie Bruck, The World According to Soros, The New Yorker, 23Jan95, p. 57) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 27 Jan 06 - 03:43 PM Guest: You forgot to add the "critics" that were accusing Soros of anti-Semitism. ;-) Here's some vile stuff from one of your favourite sources. Nice little rant accusing a Jew of being anti-Semitic, all the while sliming him with the standard stereotypes that the less subtle far right slings at Jews.... Hmmmmm, you seem to be engaging in the same stuff yourself, too. Fancy that. So do you also think that Soros was "anti-Semitic" because his father changed their name, and because he supposedly (at the august and wise-beyond-his-years age of 14 years old, no less) "hid" his Jewishness and became "Aryan" in Nazi-occupied Europe? Is he some kind of "traitor to his people" in having survived Nazi Europe? This RW slime is what passes for "fact" to the likes of you. So you'll pardon me if I don't bother reading this shite on a regular basis, much less cite it as some kind of Truth Down From The Mount. And with that, I'm going to leave your attacks on Soros to stand for themselves as what they are. Now, let's get back to the subject here, which is Dubya and his horrific incompetence and his craven dishonesty, OK? Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST,Parker, Bowler, and Fitch Date: 27 Jan 06 - 03:59 PM "We all know MSM sucks goat balls." Actually, scientific research has discredited this out-of-date theory some time ago. More than 15,000 reputed cases of goat ball sucking have been revealed as having all been totally imaginary. In the past 5 years of extensive investigation of what has become a major ubran myth, "Not one single credible case of anyone sucking a goat's balls has emerged," according to Robert Watts, head of the research team at UCLA, "and there are reasons for this. Clear and obvious reasons. Number one: only male goats have balls. Number two: male goats, known commonly as 'billy goats', stink horribly. No one would want to get that close to one. Number three: they are very aggressive, and do not allow anyone to simply walk up to them and suck their balls. Number four: No sane human being is stupid enough to even attempt to suck a billy goat's balls. Number five: No insane human, assuming there is anyone quite that insane, could possibly succeed in persuading a billy goat to allow him to suck its balls. End of story." Please retract your statement that MSM sucks goats balls immediately or we will take legal action. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 06 - 05:16 PM MSM has never admitted or been convicted of sucking got balls. However it has never been disproven. MSM has been desensitized to bad smells such asbullshit as Dan Rather can confirm. Therefore it is entirely possible that MSM could suck goat balls and not be aware of the smell. It is highly likely that MSM is confusing goat balls with lollypops. Now what "same stuff" am I engaging in? I have not accused Soros of being anti-semetic or sterotypical of anything. That is your charge. His did change his name from György Schwartz to George Soros for some reason. I am saying that Liberals think they have a license to use vicious tactics because they think they are being attacked by the right. In doing so they discredit themselves. Words like frog marching are associated with the Nazis and then thay accuse GWB of being a Nazi. They take childish delight in altering their enemy's faces to make them look like monkeys for example. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 27 Jan 06 - 06:53 PM Well, his grand=daddy did business wid 'um and the Republican Party welcomed them to America afetr WW II with open arms... Google Hertigae Council for details... I'm not as patient as Arne and won't do the heavy lifting for ye... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 06 - 08:24 PM Who's grand daddy did what with whom? Who did the Republican party welcome with open arms? Are you dropping your requirement that nothing that happened during previous administrations can be entered as evidence? Who did your grand daddy do business with and what did he do? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 27 Jan 06 - 08:37 PM Ahhhhh, the thing about threads is that ya' kinda have to, ahhh, read 'um... Have you been following the thread, especially the post just before mine (major clue here) then you wouldn't have to ask the first 2 questions... Qusttion 3: You obviously have me confused with someone else... No one get a free ride... Question 4: Both blue collar working men... One a train engineer muscling bax cars around the industarial areas of Detroit. The other, a stone and brick layer from Trenton, New Jersey... Don't remmenber either of them talking about having big business deals with Nazis but, hey... Maybe they worked long and hard doing the dirty work to cover up their lucrative deals.... Nah, don't think so... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 27 Jan 06 - 10:40 PM Guest: Now what "same stuff" am I engaging in? I have not accused Soros of being anti-semetic or sterotypical of anything. That is your charge. His did change his name from Gy�rgy Schwartz to George Soros for some reason. As they say in legal circles, "res ipsa loquitur". Even the FrontPageMagazine screed didn't say that he did it. Why bring it up unless you are implying or insinuating some motive to that. If so, out with it. Oherwise, just admit you're doing the ol' "I'm not saying that Soros sucks goat balls but...." type of shite. I am saying that Liberals think they have a license to use vicious tactics because they think they are being attacked by the right. And I'm saying, with considerably more evidence, that you're full'o'shite. The RW has had personal attack down to a fine art for decades now (not counting the McCarthy period). They've built an entire industry around it (talk radio). The liberals are late to the party if they've even bothered to come at all. I think the liberals should take off the kid gloves, and start hammering the RW slimebuckets for the piece'o'scat they are. You know, like actually saying out loud that Dubya's a two-faced liar when he's repeatedly lied his freakin' face off (the lies about surveillances being done with warrants back in 2004 is just the latest in this long string of bullshite he and the Republicans have been spewing). Words like frog marching are associated with the Nazis.... Nonsense. They take childish delight in altering their enemy's faces to make them look like monkeys for example. From the side of "KKKlinton" and "Hitlery" epithets??? I suspect a bit of projection here. But just for kicks, let's see some of this alleged "alter[ation]" (and I bet I can match you 3 to 1 with Clinton and Kerry pictures, FWIW). Who's grand daddy did what with whom? Prescott Bush was doing bidness with the Nazis. Google is your friend. And if you'd get your nose out of Freeper.com and NewsMax, you might learn a few other things too..... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST,Nobless Oblige Date: 27 Jan 06 - 11:55 PM Look, the truth of the matter is that all general categories of people (with some rare individual exceptions) say nasty, sarcastic, unfair things to their opponents in political discussions, and engage in character assassination. They all use vicious tactics. Why? Because they hold the other side in contempt, that's why. You do it. Liberals do it. Conservatives do it. Leftists do it. Rightwingers do it. Fundamentalists do it. Atheists do it. So what's the big shock? Why the outrage? Live with it, Guest. Live with it, opponents of Guest. That is life in the political debate world. The only reason it bothers you when the other side does it is: you don't agree with them! If you did agree with them, you'd be delighted by every nasty below-the-belt jab they delivered, as long as it suited your personal style. (some people's style is gross and rude, other people favor a more subtle style of character assassination). Don't pretend this holier-than-thou nonsense. Unscrupulous behaviour only bothers you when it is practiced by your political opponents! You love it when it's practiced by your political allies. And the reason that your opponents miss your important points and don't answer your vital questions is simple: they only read what you have to say so they can find something wrong with it. They ignore it, other than that. And that's what you do too! So like I said...live with it. You all lack real respect for each other. You all are patently prejudiced. You all lack true objectivity and impartiality. You all foam at the mouth in your own particular manner about your own particular obsessions...and the world goes on turning regardless. It's really damned silly, isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 06 - 12:29 PM Mr Arne: You sure read a lot into what I post. You imagination is working overtime. I don't even know what Freeper is. I have been to Newsmax but I hesitate to quote anything from there because it makes the Liberal weenies flip their lid in anguish. I am merely wondering why Soros changed his name from a Jewish name to something that looks like a greek name. Can you explain why? Childs Play I am not defending Bush> I am pointing out the nastyness and viciousness of Liberals. Here is a perfect example: Sudden plea deals in tire slashing case Milwaukee Journal Sentinel | 1/20/05 | Greg Nunnaly Posted on 01/20/2006 1:22:41 PM PST by mafree In an unexpected twist in the Election Day tire slashing trial, four former Kerry-Edwards campaign staffers, including the sons of U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore (D-Milwaukee) and former Acting Mayor Marvin Pratt, have agreed to plead no contest to misdemeanors. The plea agreements came in the middle of jury deliberations after an eight-day trial on felony property damage charges that carried potential 3 1/2 year prison terms upon conviction. Michael Pratt, 33, Sowande Omokunde, 26, Lewis G. Caldwell, 29, and Lavelle Mohammad, 36, have all pleaded no contest to misdemeanor counts of criminal damage to property. Omokunde is Moore's son. Prosecutors will recommend probation sentences as part of the deal, and that the four together pay $5,317 in restitution for the damaged tires. The surprise resolution was offered by prosecutors at 2 p.m., nearly 7 hours into deliberations and an hour after a jury note complained of an impasse. Defendant Justin Howell, 21, was the only one of the five charged not included in the deal. The no contest pleas have not been formally made yet, but when they are, jurors will be left to deliberate the felony charge against Howell. A note this morning from the jury to the judge about the verdict forms had hinted it was considering at least some convictions in the case, but the jury did not return a verdict before breaking for lunch. Then around 1 p.m., the jury sent a second note suggesting they could not reach a verdict. "We have people that are adamant about their decision and are not budging. We don't know what to do," the note read in part. Defense attorneys immediately requested a mistrial, which Circuit Judge Michael Brennan denied. He doubted that the jury was intractably hung, since testimony lasted close to seven court days and deliberations had only been going about six hours. "That's (an) insufficient amount of time to declare a mistrial," Brennan said, and ordered the jury to continue deliberating. Less than an hour later, news of the plea deals emerged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 29 Jan 06 - 02:44 PM Guest: I don't even know what Freeper is. Nah. Just like Dubya -- "'Kenny Boy' who? Chalabi who? Jack who?" -- you've never met them ... you just do cut'n'pase from their screeds. From your prior post: http://freerepublic.info/focus/f-news/1519089/posts I am merely wondering why Soros changed his name from a Jewish name to something that looks like a greek name. Can you explain why? A). Your facts are wrong: Even the article I cited said that his father changed the name. B). What freakin' bizness of yours is it? Why does that matter to you? And why should I "explain" it? Child's Play here ya go. So we have some web page somewhere with some pretty funny pictures ... and then we have the RW talking heads putting unflattering pictures on the covers of their books (read the rest of Digby's post too). Not to mention what you'll see if you just Google "KKKlinton" and "Hitlery". I am pointing out the nastyness and viciousness of Liberals. Anything like Ann Coulter saying that Justice Stevens should be given rat poison? Saying that Muslim leaders should be killed and the rest converted? That the only regret she had about the Oklahoma City bombing is that they din't bomb the N.Y. Times instead? OK, so four kids did kid type things. Stoopid. Real stoopid. They should be punished ... and shunned. Howzabout the Republican Party providing legal defence services to their Dubya campaign chairman in New England who conspired to sabotage GOTV efforts there (see here)? And the executive director of the New Hampshire Republican party is another work of art (see here). Here's more from the first article: A top New Hampshire Party official and a GOP consultant already have pleaded guilty and cooperated with prosecutors. Tobin's indictment accuses him of specifically calling the GOP consultant to get a telephone firm to help in the scheme. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 29 Jan 06 - 04:23 PM Yeag, GUEST, if you were from the progressive side of the equation you would never, never accuse "liberals" of the being the nasty ones... We have put up with a life time of yer crap *and* for tthe most part, your anti-human, anit-Earth policies, to boot... Not only that but for progressives it's no coincidence that if has been our brightest and best leaders who have been the one's at the wrong end of the gun barrel... Not yours... So, yeah, for progressives to hear what your perceptions are is beyond laughbable... And you own the microphone as well to shout yer lies and propagate yer nastiness... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:27 PM I will go along with the NY Times Thing. I Like the earth and humans too. I just don't like rabid protesters. The real quotes before they are run through the Liberal screed: "We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' creme brulee," Coulter said. "That's just a joke, for you in the media." "To The People Of Islam: Just think: If we'd invaded your countries, killed your leaders and converted you to Christianity YOU'D ALL BE OPENING CHRISTMAS PRESENTS RIGHT ABOUT NOW! Merry Christmas." Go ahead and laugh you sweet old lovable burned out hippy. How are your skills with a chain saw? Wanted: attackers of campaign signs Photo by Bret Hartman/Vail Daily Click to Enlarge Browse Vail Daily Photos A Bush-Cheney 2004 billboard in Avon has been vandalized along with other campaign signs around the Eagle Valley. Bret Hartman/Vail Daily Randy Wyrick September 29, 2004 http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040929/NEWS/109290014/0/FRONTPAGE&rs=2 AVON — Enough of the burning Bush and enough of the Avon chain saw massacre. Vandals trespassing on his property to chainsaw the middle out of Republican campaign signs spurred landowner Magnus Lindholm Wednesday to offer a $5,000 reward for information leading the arrest of those responsible. Earlier this week, somebody chain-sawed the middle out of two Bush signs on his property in Avon at the William Post Boulevard exit on Interstate 70. A "Bush/Cheney '04" campaign sign was burned in Wolcott. The Avon signs had been torn down previously, and others around the state have been damaged. Also targeted were campaign signs in other parts of the state promoting the U.S. Senate campaign of Pete Coors, also a Republican. No signs promoting Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry or Senate hopeful Ken Salazar have been reported damaged. What happened to the formidable Soros defense? Why did his daddy change his name? Who did his granddaddy do buisness with? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:37 PM An appalling magic The USA has a raucous chorus of broadcast shock jocks and rightwing loudmouths, but Ann Coulter is the undisputed star. Arguably more appealing, unquestionably the sharpest shooter, she is, of course, the darling of conservatives and a hate figure for the left - but there are others, among her detested liberals, who are gripped in fascinated awe by her scorching invective. Jonathan Freedland confronts her and recognises a truth about the United States today: Bush isn't an aberration and Coulter expresses what many Americans think Saturday May 17, 2003 The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,956452,00.html Say "American conservative commentator" and what do you picture? A middle-aged guy in shirt and necktie, right? Speak of a "hardline Republican pundit" and what else comes to mind? Perhaps a big-mouth butterball like Rush Limbaugh? Or a Bible-bashing, burn-in-hell televangelist like Jerry Falwell? Or a gun-stroking, right-between-the-eyes cowboy à la Charlton Heston. Right? Chances are, you are not picturing a Manhattan blonde with dating worries and enough acid one-liners to blow the Manolo Blahniks off the Sex And The City gang. Chances are you are not picturing Ann Coulter: columnist, TV star, bestselling author, heroine for the ultra-right and hate figure for what remains of liberal America... ...Above all, there is something about Coulter's attackers that makes you want to rally to her side. They denounce her with such vitriol, and sexism, that she almost emerges - and she would barf at these words - as a target for feminist sympathy. In print she is trashed as a telebimbo or fembot, and her hate mail routinely damns her as a slut, bitch and whore. Even the much-admired online magazine Salon once ran a piece that demeaned Coulter in thoroughly misogynist terms." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 29 Jan 06 - 08:45 PM Well, stealin' or vandalizing campaign posters and billboards go back well before any of us here was born... Nothing new and it ain't got nuthing to to with this discussion... Therer were plenty Democratic campaign signs stolen as well... As for Soros daddy, who really cares???... He ain't the president... Might of fact, he ain't an elected official... If he were then his families financial ties would be relevant and something that voters should know, ahhhhh, that is if they care... The financial ties between the Bush family and Nazis, as well as its ties to the bin Laden family, is fair game and is i8nformation that if more folks in the US knew might influence their voting decisions... But information has become something that the current crop of crooks very much thinks doesn't need to be out there for public consumption... And I'm not speaking exclusively of the Bushes... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Amos Date: 30 Jan 06 - 01:44 PM In other news of related interest: NEW YORK (Reuters) - Exxon Mobil Corp. (XOM.N: Quote, Profile, Research), the world's largest publicly traded oil company, on Monday reported a quarterly profit of $10.7 billion, capping a year of record earnings dominated by surging oil and gas prices. The results pushed up Exxon's profit for the year to a staggering $36.13 billion -- bigger than the economies of 125 of the 184 countries ranked by the World Bank. Profit rose 42 percent from 2004. The company and its peers have come under fire for posting billions in profit while consumers struggle with high gasoline prices. Exxon was quick to emphasize that such results would help it make long-term investments to meet energy demand. The Irving, Texas company's fourth-quarter net income rose 27 percent, to $10.71 billion, or $1.71 a share, from $8.42 billion, or $1.30 a share, a year earlier. Revenue was just shy of $100 billion. Excluding a special gain, the company earned $1.65 per share, handily beating the average forecast of $1.45 among analysts polled by Reuters Estimates. "It's an exceptionally strong quarter -- they're the world's most profitable company," said Robert Lutts, president of Cabot Money Management. "It could raise eyebrows among some, but they're doing their job." Exxon shares were up $1.84, or 3 percent, at $63.13 in late-morning trade on the New York Stock Exchange. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: .Woody Date: 30 Jan 06 - 02:21 PM "Well, stealin' or vandalizing campaign posters and billboards go back well before any of us here was born" Hey Bobert the hypocrite. You said nothing in the past matters. So which way is it, or do you want it one way for you and another way for others? The typical Liberal double standard at work again. WEBSTER'S NEW UNIVERSAL UNABRIDGED DICTIONARY hypocrite: 1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements. http://www.hardcoretruth.com/Hypocrisy/ The goal of this page is not only to inform you of whether you are a hypocrite or not; it is to inform you of the type of hypocrite you are or are not. Perhaps you are a hypocrite. If you are, I can show you how to deal with your hypocrisy. I will present the factors that cause honest people to be hypocritical at times. I will share with you in minutes, what took me hours of objective self-evaluation to understand. This understanding has given me peace of mind, and I hope it will for you too. Maybe you are worse than a hypocrite is; I will give examples of non-hypocrites that have less integrity than certain types of hypocrites do. For these people, I will explain how their lack of integrity has given them a distorted perception of reality. Regardless, if you are searching for understanding about hypocrisy, you have come to the right place. Before I can clearly communicate my ideas to you, we must go through the painstaking process of eliminating any ambiguity that could arise from the terminology that I will be using. I have even had to coin a couple of terms myself in order to convey my ideas precisely, and concisely. I have also provided a mathematical formula and a matrix to add additional aid in precisely communicating the relationship of the terms discussed. We will start with the word hypocrite. There are a couple of meanings for this word, and it is necessary to state which one we will be using in this article. " |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: .Woody Date: 30 Jan 06 - 02:35 PM George Soros, of all people -- the man known to some as the world's richest liberal (unless you count Bill Gates) -- said that Harken Energy (which he owned a third of at the time, because they bought out his Soros Oil) bought out George W. Bush's disintegrating Spectrum 7 company in 1986 not because it would make any profit, but because he was buying the political influence of the Bushes. An awful lot of investments in George W. Bush companies have the appearance of being made for that same purpose. Soros said that the influence "didn't come to anything" in the end. A spokesman later said that Soros's statement was taken out of context, making it appear that he was personally involved in the decision when he was not. Soros dumped his Harken stock in 1989, long before it ran into trouble. Soros is another Abramov type crook. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 02 Feb 06 - 10:04 AM Where is the defense of Soros? Geroge Soros has all you "got to protest something" types marching around like little tin soldiers, doing his bidding. He is an amature, self proclaimed nation builder that thinks he is so rich, he is god. He made a billion dollars in one day on the backs of the Brits and uses it and other ill begotten proceeds to finances moveon.org and other subversive activities. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 02 Feb 06 - 02:17 PM Guest: Where is the defense of Soros? Why should I defend him from the likes of you? OTOH, why don't you "defend" yourself for your adulation of the likes of Freeper.com, FrontPageMagazine, NewsMax, and the other nasty RW "slime machine" sites? How about your nasty insinuation that Soros is some kind of self-loathing Jew (ignoring the fact that you personally made a false and scurrilous assertion the Soros himself had changed his name)? I think if there's anyone here that needs defence, it would be you and your nasty lip. Geroge Soros has all you "got to protest something" types marching around like little tin soldiers, doing his bidding. Nonsense. I was doing just what I'm doing long before Soros decided that the ERW had to be confronted for the evil they are. You know, he had some familiarity with the excesses of right wing dictatorships.... He is an amature, self proclaimed nation builder that thinks he is so rich, he is god. He's a billionaire, and you're apparently just some 2-bit (anonymous) twerp of no consequence. Plus, I suspect he knows how to spell "amateur" (sorry if your French isn't up to snuff). Sorry, but I can't help you remedy that situation, if a remedy is even possible. He made a billion dollars in one day on the backs of the Brits and uses it and other ill begotten proceeds to finances moveon.org and other subversive activities. "[S]ubversive activities", eh? Miss the McCarthy days, eh? He made billions of dollars from others that thought they were smarter than him. That's the way markets work. You places your bets and takes your chances. If any common Brits have a beef about their currency, they ought to take it up with the folks than sold it out. Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Old Guy Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:13 PM why don't you "defend" yourself for your adulation of the likes of Freeper.com, FrontPageMagazine, NewsMax, and the other nasty RW "slime machine" sites? I never made any claims about these sites. I still don't know what freeper is. However whatever they are you attack them in true leftwing extremist style. I asked why he changed his name. Is that a nasty acusation? You are the nasty acuser. "When he was a boy his parents changed the family name to the vaguely Hungarian-sounding name Soros" Why did his parents change it? When and who changed György to George? I suspect he knows how to spell "amateur" (sorry if your French isn't up to snuff). Sorry, but I can't help you remedy that situation, if a remedy is even possible. In typical left wing extremist style you attack someones spelling, but only if they disaggree with you. You let the poor spelling of your buds like Bobert pass without comment. I think that is an example of the discrimination that you claim to abhor. That's the way markets work. So any way people make money is ethical? de riguerHow's your French? privatisation schemes Shouldn't that be privatization? for mre than? any communitty? waged incomepetently? Whie this? when decididng? looked at askanse? that you'ev swallowed ? words of thsoe? snap judgement? incident occured? political opponets? referenced documenation? commentatirs? the measn ? it's tunred into ? millenium? never apologised ? Commander Codpice? Oherwise? they din't ? Yep, I am just a 2-bit (anonymous) twerp of no consequence and you are so perfect and righteous that you don't have to defend Soros or offer any reasons for his name change. You just attack anything that your imagined enemys present. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Amos Date: 02 Feb 06 - 11:19 PM Hmmmm...Old Guy, it appears that the attacking in this little hotspot was your idea in the first place. Soros, as far as I know, is interested in making things better. Are you, also? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Old Guy Date: 03 Feb 06 - 01:01 AM omly if you consider presenting facts that are contrary to someone elses an attack. Who does Soros support in the US besides moveon.org? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 03 Feb 06 - 07:50 AM Oh contraire', Woodman... If you are of the opionion that I have ever said that nothing in the past matters then you have taken me completely out of context... My undergraduate degree is in history and poli-sci so must have so level of appreciation for things that occured before today... My entire "KatrinaGate" thread is about stuff that happened in the past, granted the past isn't that past compared to Fred Flintstone, but in the past none the less... So, Pleeeeezzzeee, before going thru yer righteopus indignation/Websters tirade be sure that your indictments are tight and not based on something taken well out of context... And,once again, lets try to keep to the meaasge at hand rather than assaults on the messenegers... It really weakens yer case when you won't come to the defense of Bush when his actions/inactions effect hundreds of milliions of people yet you go after Amos, Ron or me... Tsk, tsk... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 03 Feb 06 - 01:00 PM Old Guy a.k.a. "Guest": I never made any claims about these sites. I still don't know what freeper is. However whatever they are you attack them in true leftwing extremist style. Old Guy! Was that you as "guest" upstairs??? You oughtta sign your posts, ya know. If it was you, then you quoted from "Free Republic", a.k.a. "Freeperville", and gave cites to FrontPageMagazine and NewsMax yourself. If it wasn't you above, then I don't know why you're responding here. I asked why he changed his name. He didn't change his name. Can I ask why you're an idiot? After that, maybe I can ask why you give a rat's a$$ why his father changed the family name. [Arne]: That's the way markets work. So any way people make money is ethical? How does that follow? Did I say any such thing? But FWIW, for Soros to sell something, there has to be a buyer ... a willing buyer, and vice versa. Unles you can come up with something more, how do you call such a transaction "[un]ethical"? Spelling: Yeah, you got me on a couple. Most are obvious typos. Tuchee. "privatisation schemes" Shouldn't that be privatization? Depends. See if you can figure out on what. snap judgement? You have a problme here? Yep, I am just a 2-bit (anonymous) twerp of no consequence and you are so perfect and righteous that you don't have to defend Soros or offer any reasons for his name change. Ummm, I don't have to defend Soros because there's no reason I have to defend Soros. But I'd think that you might think about defending why the name change is such a big thing to you. That has nothing to do with Soros, and a lot to do with you..... You just attack anything that your imagined enemys present. You need to work on your apostrophisation. ;-) Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Ron Davies Date: 08 Feb 06 - 10:25 PM Sorry I haven't been able to get to this thread. Last week I had a bunch of rehearsals and 3 concerts with the National Symphony in the Kennedy Center. Maestro Slatkin was very happy, and we got a host of real good reviews. That'll have to do for an excuse. And, of course, the thread got thoroughly sidetracked. As I recall, Soros had marginal influence, to say the least (too bad, too) on the Bush propaganda campaign to sell the Iraq war. But now, I'm back to bring you more joy, Teribus. Also, we'll deal with Mr. Bush's military non-service later. Right now, Teribus, you still are obviously in desperate need of instruction in how propaganda operates. So, once again, we'll take it slow, one step at a time for you. I'm confident you'll pick it up. Good thing I have unlimited patience. One more time: To be effective, propaganda needs to directly state a cause and effect: yes or no? That's your first lesson. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Teribus Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:04 PM Welcome back to this thread Ron, I note you have been posting on others but I guess you had to wait till my post and it's question dropped off the 'top fifty'. So for your benefit Ron let's see if you can answer it now: Ron Davies - 21 Jan 06 - 05:47 PM "Most of the men Bush took instruction with in learning to be a pilot were going to Vietnam." The above statement by Ron is a BOBERT FACT - It has absolutely no basis, like the propaganda campaign that never was this is a figment of Ron's imagination, but it can be easily debunked. Ron has been challenged on this on a number of previous occasions when he has made this claim, with the result he has not once come up with any detail to back it up. He refers to the "teasing" that Lt. G.W. Bush got about a request relating to a scheme called "Palace Guard". Ron did those reporting this also tease Fred Buckley? The stage of training he was in at the time was at an Operational Training Unit where he and his fellow students were learning how to 'fight' their aircraft - Delta Dagger F-102A's. Now all his fellow students in this unit would be learning the ins and outs of flying and fighting this one type of aircraft, OTU's do not fly mixed types it is not an efficient use of equipment or manpower. His Training officer turned down the request of both Bush and Buckley for three reasons, the first was lack of operational experience (500hrs minimum after having been passed as operational were required), the second was that the aircraft type he was training on were being withdrawn from theatre, finally the third reason was that the "Palace Guard" scheme was being cut back. Previously Ron has made the statement about the vast majority of pilots going to Vietnam. As I have previously pointed out to Ron from figures available from the Pentagon, at the height of the war in Vietnam, the maximum number of US Troops of all services and branches of those services was about 550,000 in 1968. The official strength of the US Armed Forces at the time was 3.5 million, so even every single person serving in Vietnam would not make any "vast majority" - True Ron?? Now let's take a look at the half million odd that were there. The "vast majority" to use Ron's terms would be infantry and logistics units, as there was no question of disputed air superiority over the area you can accomplish quite a lot with very few aircraft. In 1968, Ron, the "vast majority" of US Air Force, Army, Marine, ANG and US Navy pilots were servicing the requirements of a little thing called the "Cold War", i.e. keeping an eye on Russia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Ron Davies Date: 09 Feb 06 - 09:58 PM Teribus-- You still don't read very carefully, do you? A clear failing of Bushite giant intellects, I've noticed, especially (dare I say it?) your good self. I clearly said we would get to Bush's military non-service after we finish the little matter of this thread topic. You'll be able to carry out your role as a Bush apologist defending Chickenhawk #1--to your little heart's content. Just not right now. I know thread creep is a long and honorable tradition at Mudcat--but it would be nice for once to actually concentrate on the topic. Right now, since you don't seem to have much of an understanding, here's your badly-needed instruction in how propaganda operates. Lesson 1 To be effective, propaganda needs a clear cause-effect statement. Yes or no? Please just answer the question. A yes or no will suffice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 09 Feb 06 - 10:13 PM No, Ron, seems that T don't read much of anyhting that ain't in his dialy orders from Karl "Bush" Rove... And he continues to play the "BOBERT FACVTS" card as if he repeats it often enough it will stick... ...but after the battles he and I had during the mad-dash-to-Iraqmire, its the TERIBUS FACTS, it is now painfully (to T) clear are the ones that don't hold up to close scrutiny... But then why should they??? He gets his marching orders from the biggest presidential liar of all time... The last reason T gave for the invasion of Iraq was_________________? See what I mean??? Hey, Ron... You playing the Millinium Stage??? I got an invite to play two years ago for an all day Blues thing but played the Theater Stage (300 seat capacity) but, hey.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Teribus Date: 10 Feb 06 - 09:23 AM No answer then Ron - thought not. As to getting one later, I won't hold my breath on it. Because this claim of yours is based on exactly the same as your claim about a propaganda campaign, absolutely nothing except your own imaginings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 10 Feb 06 - 09:50 AM In other words, Ron, another TERIBUS FACT... One thing about TERIBUS FACTS is that they are hard to argue with because when you have someone who thinks that the sky is green, to him or here, it's green??? And, BTW, when T is backed into corners its usally the TERIBUS FACT that he will use to try to extracate him T-self... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Ron Davies Date: 10 Feb 06 - 10:59 PM Teribus-- So sorry--you're in the distinct minority--not just on Mudcat but in the whole world--in denying the Bush regime's propaganda campaign--from about mid 2002 to the actual invasion in March 2003. The charitable interpretation--which is therefore the one we'll use--is that you don't understand how propaganda operates. So, again: Lesson 1 Propaganda, in order to be effective, needs a clear cause-effect statement: yes or no? Please just answer the question. Yes or no will suffice--we actually can get along without one of your magnificent War and Peace- length -----(a tip of the hat to Bobert)------ cut-and-paste tomes Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Teribus Date: 11 Feb 06 - 05:45 AM From Ron, "Teribus-- So sorry--you're in the distinct minority--not just on Mudcat but in the whole world--in denying the Bush regime's propaganda campaign--from about mid 2002 to the actual invasion in March 2003." Ron is very handy with phrases like "vast majority", "distinct minority", the only thing is he uses them without justification and when asked to provide evidence to support his statements he conveniently forgets the question and attacks the person daring to challenge "the truth according to Ron". To answer your question Ron, there are many things in this world that requires a clear cause-effect statement in order to be effective. It is an essential part of the decision making process. Now having been asked to provide details of this so-called propaganda campaign that was centred around Saddam Hussein being involved in the attacks of 11th September, 2001. You have singularly failed to do so. Instead I am tasked with having to provide you with an example where, within the completely arbitrary period that "Ron the always-right" selected, the US Administration made the categoric statement that Saddam Hussein had nothing whatsoever to with those attacks. I believe I did so. Right then Ron, now how about putting forward some substantiation for the points that you have delighted in making on this thread? 1. "Most of the men Bush took instruction with in learning to be a pilot were going to Vietnam." - How many Ron? I won't be too surprised Ron when your research turns up the answer "None". 2. During the period GWB served in the ANG the "vast majority of pilots" served in Vietnam. This contention of yours Ron is statistically impossible. 3. The propaganda campaign - one example Ron, just one, of where anyone in the US Administration from 11th September, 2001 until the present day has ever said that Saddam Hussein was involved in the attacks of that day. I do hope that this wasn't too long a post for you and Bobert, I realise that you both may have extremely short concentration spans and rely totally on someone else having to tell you what to think and why because neither of you can be bothered to read and listen to what is actually being said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 11 Feb 06 - 02:40 PM This thread reminds me of this story.... News anchor Dan Rather, The Reverend Jesse Jackson, NPR reporter Cokie Roberts, and an American Marine were walking in the desert one day when they were captured by a terrorist group. They were tied up, led to the village hideout and brought before the chief. The chief said, "I am familiar with your Western custom of granting the condemned a last wish. Before we torture and kill you, do you have any last requests?" Dan Rather said, " I would like to tape this my final news story for my fans" The chief allowed him time and gear to record his story. At the end Dan said "now I can die content" Jesse Jackson said, "You know, the thing in this life I am proudest of is my work on behalf of the poor and oppressed. So before I go, I want to sing "We Shall Overcome" one last time." The chief said, "Go right ahead, we're listening." Jackson sang the song, and then said, "Now I can die in peace." Cokie Roberts said, "I'm a reporter to the end. I want to take out my tape recorder and describe the scene here and what's about to happen. Maybe someday someone will hear it and know that I was on the job till the end." The chief directed an aide to hand over the tape recorder, and Roberts dictated some comments. She then said, "Now I can die happy." The chief turned and said, "And now, Mr. Marine, what is your final wish?" "Kick me in the ass," said the Marine. "What?" said the chief. "Will you mock us in your last hour?" "No, I'm not kidding. I want you to kick me in the ass," insisted the Marine. So the chief shoved him into the open, and kicked him in the ass. The Marine went sprawling, but rolled to his knees, pulled a 9mm pistol from his waistband, and shot the chief dead. In the resulting confusion, he leapt to his feet grabbed an AK 47, and sprayed the terrorists with gunfire. In a flash, they were dead or fleeing for their lives. As the Marine was untying the others, they asked him, "Why didn't you just shoot them? Why did you ask them to kick you in the ass first?" "What!?" said the Marine, "And have you jerks call ME the aggressor?!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Bobert Date: 11 Feb 06 - 06:23 PM "The former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intellegence on the Middle East until last year has accused the Bush administration of "cherry picking" intellegence on Iraq to justify a decision it had already reached to go to war, and of ignoring warnings that the country could easily fall into violence and xchaos after an invasion to overthrown Saddam Hussein." (Paul R. Pillar, former CIA intellegence officeer for the near East from 2000 to 2005) Source: Washington Post, Feb, 10th, 2006 Whaddayathink, Ron? Another bad day fir T, I'd say... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Arne Date: 12 Feb 06 - 12:08 AM Teribus: Instead I am tasked with having to provide you with an example where, within the completely arbitrary period that "Ron the always-right" selected, the US Administration made the categoric statement that Saddam Hussein had nothing whatsoever to with those attacks. I believe I did so. Ummmm .... *thinking back* .... ummmm, no, Teribus, actually, you didn't. Some random OT stuff: In 1968, Ron, the "vast majority" of US Air Force, Army, Marine, ANG and US Navy pilots were servicing the requirements of a little thing called the "Cold War", i.e. keeping an eye on Russia. Yeah. Patrolling the Gulf of Mexico for errant Carcharhinus Sovietus (the fearsome Rusky Shark). Or taking "training flights" over to the Sunshine State and hauling back plants of some kind or another (did this have anything to do with his sagging fitness ratings?). Anyone around at the time knows what a NG posting was good for at the time, and there's hardly any dispute what the "Champagne Unit" was all about. But, just a FYI, I posted above a link to Dubya's undisputed "do not volunteer" for overseas duty (and you dutifully ignored it). Now most people would understand that -- at the time it was signed -- for what it was..... Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: GUEST Date: 12 Feb 06 - 04:02 AM Reported on the B.B.C. this morning MoD to probe Iraq 'abuse' video The footage shows British soldiers dragging youths and kicking them. A military spokesman in Iraq condemned "all acts of abuse and brutality" by British troops, saying the allegations related to a "tiny number" of soldiers. The Royal Military Police are probing the incident, which the newspaper said happened in southern Iraq in 2004. Alleged abuse On the tape, described as a "secret home video", an unidentified cameraman is heard laughing and urging his colleagues on. It was apparently filmed for fun by a corporal. M.O.D. said it was aware of the allegations. British military spokesman Flight Lieutenant Chris Thomas, based in Basra, said: "We hope that the good relations that the multi-national forces have worked very hard to develop won't be adversely affected by this material." M.O.D.Have satisfied ourselves that this is an absolutely genuine article The tape allegedly shows a disturbance in the street outside what the paper calls a military compound. Soldiers are shown chasing youths involved in the disturbance, dragging four of them into the compound and beating them on various parts of the body with batons and kicking them, one in the genitals. The recording is said to show an attack lasting a minute, with 42 blows counted. A journalist who watched the video said a soldier could also be seen kicking a dead Iraqi in the face. No doubt those found guilty will get off as previous British soldiers have done in the past. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush Iraq Propaganda Campaign From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 12 Feb 06 - 05:11 PM Probably because those Iraqi's were trying to kill the soldiers, but obviously the press have to give their slant on it first.... |
