Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 01:34 PM

And there was I thinking that they were named after that girl Carol that I fancied when I was 14!!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Dec 09 - 02:42 PM

I haven`t read every post but in Delph Saddleworth Yorkshire While Shepherds is sung to Jackson and Burnet

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 11:42 AM

Thanks, everyone, for an interesting thread.

I had never heard a version of 'While Shepherds Watched...' that included a chorus about sweet bells.

I investigated a YouTube and found this:

a minor skirmish in the War between the Men and the Women

I recommend it for anyone else who has never heard the song.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 12:10 PM

I think last night's radio programme included it too.....

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: GUEST,Nailbourne source
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 05:28 AM

I listened to Today the other day and was surprised to hear during the 8 am News Bulletin that it has been claimed that the Christmas carol 'While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night' was originally sung to the tune of the folk song 'On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at'.
I understand, from 'The New Oxford Book of Carols' (Ed. H Keyte & A Parrott) that the tune is known as 'Cranbrook' and was written by a shoemaker from Canterbury called Thomas Clark. It was first published in Clark's 'A Set of Psalm & Hymn Tunes' in 1805. Although Clark wrote it for a different hymn it became associated with 'While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night' which was possibly written by Nahum Tate in around 1700. According to Wallace Harvey in his book 'Thomas Clark of Canterbury' "the words of 'On Ilkla Moor Baht 'at' were composed by the conductor of the Heptonstall Glee Choir" in around 1877 to Thomas Clark's tune. The song increased the tune's popularity and the words and tune combined have entered the folk tradition.
I have not found any suggestion that the tune was known prior to Thomas Clark's publication of it. Therefore it seems that this is a hymn tune which has become a folk song rather than the other way round as claimed, unless new evidence has come to light. I also suspect the BBC reporter of turning the story round to make it more 'interesting'. I emailed the Beeb about all this but not surprisingly had no reply. I think it is just as interesting that the 'pop' songs of the day should become folk songs which I suspect is a process that is going on today. Maybe in two hundred years time Beatles tunes may be thought of in the same way as Cranbrook is now?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 08:20 AM

I blame the church organist! Way back when the film version of West Side Story came out I was friends with a very young part time London church organist/choirmaster. He used to play Bernstein's WSS tunes in the style of 'churchified' music plus other 'pop' stuff for the intro & exit music to services. Was fantastic sat in the organ loft listening to the compliments on the 'lovely music' from a congregational members who had no idea what it's root were. The Lad in question was a superb young musician.

29 mins into Late Junction BBCR3 last night was Chris Woods and the EAC's lovely arrangement of 'While Shepherds Watched' followed by church bells .... wonderful!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Popular carols 'have folks roots'
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 03:58 AM

Leeneia,

Could we have the correct link please?