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BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory
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Subject: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 26 Jun 01 - 08:59 PM Advanced Songwriters (those who have won more than one mantel decoration in an official Song Challenge on the Mudcat or who have had comparable experience approved by the Divine Limeaid Goddess herself) are required to prepare an analysis of the following argument to demonstrate Senior Mastery of the subtleties of their art and its boundaries with genuine science: Title: Global Organization of the Lexicon The lexicon consists of a set of word meanings and their semantic relationships. A systematic representation of the English lexicon based in psycholinguistic considerations has been put together in the database Wordnet in a long-term collaborative effort1. We present here a quantitative study of the graph structure of Wordnet in order to understand the global organization of the lexicon. We find that semantic links follow power-law, scale-invariant behaviors typical of self-organizing networks. Polysemy, the ambiguity of an individual word, can act as a link in the semantic network, relating the different meanings of a common word. Inclusion of polysemous links has a profound impact in the organization of the semantic graph, converting it into a small world, with clusters of high traffic (hubs) representing abstract concepts. Our results show that polysemy organizes the semantic graph in a compact and categorical representation, and thus may explain the ubiquity of polysemy across languages. The full paper is available on this site , and please note there WILL be a quiz!! Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amergin Date: 26 Jun 01 - 09:28 PM groan...do I have to? I got enough homework already... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Jeri Date: 26 Jun 01 - 10:48 PM Amos, I write folk-like music. I am not supposed to understand what I'm doing. Semantic links follow power-law, we have come to realise and scale-invariant behaviors found in networks that self-organize...no, it's too late for this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Mark Cohen Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:09 PM That's fatuous. The ubiquity of polysemy across languages is attributable to the stability of the organization of cerebral language centers across individuals. It's not necessary to posit an arbitrary parameter and then to create "data" purporting to demonstrate the applicability of that parameter in a derived statistical model. Everybody knows that! Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Mark Cohen Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:12 PM Or, to put in in a more appropriate form, "I like-a you and you like-a me and we like-a both the same...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:14 PM What(ever) Mark said goes double for me. So there! Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:20 PM huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amergin Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:25 PM Well, MMario, if you and Alex would actually read the textbooks instead of just look at the funny pictures on the cover...you would know what Mark was talking about... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 26 Jun 01 - 11:37 PM Why would I want to? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:12 AM I think Mouse has pinned it -- interesting, bubut oh god, WHY??? These guys get into super-statistical multidimensional analysis and they get so grokked out on the correlations they think their numbers reveal they space out completely. Maybe the notion is that if we just decode it right we'll find the meta structure that defines all language machinery and then we can subtract that and find ourselves looking in a Great Cosmic Spiritual Communication Mirror!! Like, woooow man. Tripppy!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amergin Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:28 AM actually, I always hated analysising poetry and other forms of written art....it always took the joy out of it... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:32 AM This reminds me of those people who find encoded messages in every word of the Bible. What, physical monoeroticism wasn't satisfying enough so they had to resort to the mental kind? I have heard (and read) so much post-modern gobbledygook that my bullshit detectors are highly trained instruments of deconstruction. Any sentence with more than one ten-cent word in it is automatically suspect. If you have to create both the container and the stuff that goes into it, you're playing with markers and not "interfacing" with the real world. But what do I know? I'd be interested in trying polysemy if my wife would let me. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: JenEllen Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:36 AM Ditto. It always amazed me, the need for analysis always ssems to spring from folks that don't have a creative neuron in their entire being. Botany has it's place, to be sure, but do you really need to analyze a rose by any other name?
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:41 AM ALex, I think there's a difference between multiple meaning and multiply manning!! LOL!!! Ask your wife how she feels about ambiguity between consenting adults! Love, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amergin Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:45 AM exactly, Jen, and sometimes they would spend hours analysing a the meaning behind a red wheelbarrow in a poem....when sometimes a wheelbarrow is just a wheelbarrow.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Mark Cohen Date: 27 Jun 01 - 01:50 AM Don't you mean a red wheel- barrow ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 27 Jun 01 - 08:25 AM Realizing that an understanding on Information Mechanics (as IF!) is vital to the success of a free folkie, the following has been added to the curricula and the final exam. This will be a "no books" exam. Calculators may be used. Likewise allowed are personal squeeze-balls, foam mallets and Depenz. Title: Information Mechanics Origiinal paper can be found heref \or your convenience , but no passing notes! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:06 AM okay - basically the first message above says - the more meanings that a word has the more connections it has to other words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: LR Mole Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:21 AM Poo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:24 AM MM, you are brilliant. How'd you cut through so much crap so fast? Had a lot of practice?? :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:30 AM "of course I'm brilliant!" - said he with all appropriate modesty. Explaining computer tech manuals to end-users is excellent practice. However - it probably comes from years of listening to older bothers and sisters *try* to keep secrets from younger sibs by confusing them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: JenEllen Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:32 AM Well, not exactly Nathan, but I see where you are going. Lets see if I can elaborate...an example (only because it was raining and I read a lot of Shakespeare yesterday):
'Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow versus: 'Life Stinks' Basically the same emotion, just a more modest use of words? An analyst might say such, but if you go on the sheer emotive expression, they are nowhere close. It's the same anywhere else, when they try to explain emotion/expression using the natural laws, it just sounds like a joke. Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle: three very nice words that an analysis might show speak of strength and definition, but they are also ones who can also strike a boil in the pit of a physics student's stomach on test-day. Who is more right about the power of those words? ~J |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:45 AM get your hip boots out if you want to read that second paper - basically it takes 20 pages to say "if something doesn't happen you can't measure it" and "the total amount of information is the amount of information per time unit multiplied by the duration of time information is received" but the graphs are pretty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: jeffp Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:46 AM All I want to know is: What key (and mode) does Schrodinger's cat meow in? jeffp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:48 AM what self-respecting cat (and all cats are self-respecting) would meow in anything other then the key of "C is for Cat". it's just they may each have their OWN key of C |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: jeffp Date: 27 Jun 01 - 09:58 AM And if there's a talking bird in the room, it's C mynah, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:05 AM you got it! or in other words... You have derived the quintessential unit of informative content from the percieved quantum event involving the domesticated feline residing for duration {x} in the time-space field co-equivilant with a member of that avian species to which in the venacular of residents of the english speaking portions of North America refer as "mynah" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: jeffp Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:23 AM Question - would my amputee cat still meow in C even though she B diminished? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:31 AM jeff - a cat is never diminished - that they will admit! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:42 AM Golly gee whiz! I write a coupla Mudcat songs, and all of a sudden I've got an assignment! If I accept it, will it self-destruct in 5 seconds! Please? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: jeffp Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:56 AM You're not kidding. She still KNOWS she's the queen of the house. When the other cats want to play with each other, they just leap and get it started. When they want to play with Her, they invite her to play and see if she will deign to agree. jeffp |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Kim C Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:05 AM My head hurts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:49 AM Any cohesive, stratified, organized collection of data will, upon extensive and categorical analysis leading to devitalization, undergo a metamorphosis whose ultimate realisation is that the data set previously mentioned no longer bears any similitude relationship with its preanylised state. Translation to pedestrian English left as an exercise for the reader. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:10 PM "If you keep staring at it, you'll go blind" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:13 PM Close but now kepwie! Anybody else? Step right up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:15 PM I mean "no" kewpie. If only I could stop my fingers from unauthorized actions. My wife wouldn't hit me so much. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:21 PM "If you keep staring at it, it'll melt"?? Kewpie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:31 PM "things change" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:35 PM "If you analyze anything to death, it won't be the same subject." Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: jeffp Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:36 PM "The act of observing changes that which is observed" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:42 PM "If you keep staring at it, you'll see the face of Jesus"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: mousethief Date: 27 Jun 01 - 01:20 PM "The louder he talked of his honour, the faster we counted our spoons." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jun 01 - 01:28 PM I got Babelfish to turn the summarised article into Italian:
Il lessico consiste d'un insieme dei significati di parola e dei loro rapporti semantici. Una rappresentazione sistematica del lessico inglese basato nelle considerazioni psycholinguistic è stata unita nella base di dati Wordnet in un effort1 di collaborazione di lunga durata. Presentiamo qui uno studio quantitativo sulla struttura di grafico di Wordnet per capire l' organizzazione globale del lessico < del ritrovamento che i collegamenti semantici seguono la pontenza-legge, comportamenti regol-invariabili di p>We tipici delle reti ad auto-organizzazione. Il polysemy, l' ambiguità d'una parola specifica, può fungere da collegamento nella rete semantica, collegante i significati differenti d'una parola comune. L' inclusione dei collegamenti polysemous ha un effetto profondo nell' organizzazione del grafico semantico, convertente lo in piccolo mondo, con le serie di ingranaggi di alto traffico (mozzi) che rappresentano i concetti astratti. I nostri risultati indicano che il polysemy organizza il grafico semantico in una rappresentazione compatta e categorico e possono spiegare così l' ubiquità di polysemy attraverso languages.
Now that still makes just as much sense to me... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Kim C Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:00 PM I saw the face of Shakespeare on an elevator wall once.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:08 PM Do you think they were stoned when they wrote that? It's got that kind of hovering on the edge of saying something, but never quite touching down feel about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Mark Cohen Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:03 PM Is "languages" an Italian word? Bet you left that in as the last word just to see if anybody was reading... Aloha, Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:07 PM I think it's a lot funnier in Italian for some reason!!! I keep thinking "one forward, four reverse". That was the number of gears for Italian tanks in the WW II humor lexicon, as I recall.... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Luke Date: 28 Jun 01 - 07:19 AM Words are nice. They make pretty colors and shapes in my mind and sometimes say things. Luke |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,UB Dan Date: 28 Jun 01 - 09:55 AM Facts are simple and facts are straight Facts are lazy and facts are late Facts all come with points of view Facts don't do what I want them to Facts just twist the truth around Facts are living turned inside out Facts are getting the best of them Facts are nothing on the face of things Facts don't stain the furniture Facts go out and slam the door Facts are written all over your face Facts continue to change their shape -Talking Heads "Crosseyed and Painless" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:32 AM Mousethief, I think it means "Data changes when you examine it" What a crock! Backup your database! Any cohesive, stratified, organized collection of data will, upon extensive and categorical analysis leading to devitalization, undergo a metamorphosis whose ultimate realisation is that the data set previously mentioned no longer bears any similitude relationship with its preanylised state. Translation to pedestrian English left as an exercise for the reader. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:42 AM Well, any folkie knows that the heart of the song is what's behind the words, not the words -- the "data" obsession we have inherited from our scientific friends doesn't travel well intot he realms of such arcane things as understanding and communicating. That's why psychiatry is such a flop, IMHO -- trying to proclaim itself a medical specialization and harrumphing around with data without due regard to the subject proper of the psyche and its doings. Don't get me started. Ok, so breaking it down a bit for the sake of curiosity, what could this sentence mean: ...the equality between the negative expected log probability measure of information and the product of the translational eigenstates of time and energy, is derived,. To start with I must confess I do not understand "eigenstates" and would appreciate it if someone would explain the use oif the term to me. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Jack the Sailor Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:48 PM Amos Said: To start with I must confess I do not understand "eigenstates" and would appreciate it if someone would explain the use oif the term to me.
Rob says: Good luck! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Jun 01 - 01:44 PM Here's some eigenstates. In this case they appear to be doggies... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: MMario Date: 29 Jun 01 - 01:56 PM I think it refers to discrete states - such as Schrodinger's cat being either alive or dead. it is one or the other. Versus something such as height - which is relative. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Jim Krause Date: 29 Jun 01 - 03:10 PM Huh? I'm just passin' through. Just passin' through. Anything beyond three chords, and I'm lost. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 29 Jun 01 - 05:06 PM In the thought experiment called Schrodinger's Cat, the cat "is" in one of two conditions -- alive and dead -- and theoretically is in both of them in alternate universes of branching unfolding lines of event. So my guess is that an "eigenstate" from the German word for "special" is a special way of looking at quantum phenomena. I'm building this a bit at a time though... so lemme go chew some more.... ....OK, I'm believed to be back. So... if you look at one of this "possible states" in a particular way you get a specific perception of an "outcome" reality, one of the many probability states it could have been in. I THINK the eigenstate is the bundle of all possible probability states that a quantum "thing" could be in. OR an eigenstate is the combination of all possible states PLUS a particular perspective that "projects" the quantum event ONTO its eigenstate so that one outcome is now determined. They talk, for example, about whether a particular measurement is a momentum eigenstate or a location eigenstate, meaning that looking at the quantum event that way projects it into an outcome of one or the other, but not both pieces of information being revealed (this is associated with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which I know enough to name but not enough to truly explain, dumb me....). I guess each of the possible state-values of a system before it is measured is also called an Eigenstate. So the cat has two -- the alive eigenstate and the dead eigenstate. But only one of them shows up as actual, and only when the measurement is taken (opening the box). The set of all the states of a quantum system can be represented by a finite-dimensional complex vector space with an inner product. This is the superposition of all the individual eigenstates of a system -- if I understand this tricky concept right. Opening the box "pins" or "projects" the quantum system "cat" onto its eigenstate "dead" or "alive" depending on the instant or other characteristic of the measurement. Anyone want to reassure me out there? Regards, Amos |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 30 Jun 01 - 12:13 PM Wow...I am overwhelmed at the flood of responses. Obviously the method of measuring (posing a relatively obscure question from a scientific theory) does not actually produce an eigenvalue, or at least a set which is nul. Very intersting... ve vill haff to exshplore more about der eigenstates of dis community Mudcatten!! De eigenstates are very anomolous! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: GUEST,Professor Von Civet Date: 30 Jun 01 - 06:26 PM As I drink from my glass I complate its eigenstate Fully full, less full, half full almost empty That was a worthwhile thought experiment Please pay strict attention while I perform it again! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Songwriter's Theory 4002: Mandatory From: Amos Date: 01 Jul 01 - 10:57 AM That's what I like to see, Professor -- down to earth practical applications!! Thanks. A |