BS: Canada falls off its high horse

Subject: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:39 AM

Well, of course those irresponsible Americans are out there gathering up and torturing people in their insane wars, but not us. No, when we hear about even the possibility of this kind of thing, we do everything we can, because we are pure of heart, peaceful, and have everyone's best interests at heart.

So a senior Canadian intelligence diplomat reveals that we essentially picked up hundreds of Afghans at random, handed them over to be tortured, and were warned about it at the most senior levels many, many times, and did nothing. For some strange, mysterious reason, our government immediately accuses this diplomat (who will be looking for work shortly, one can be assured of that) of being unreliable. Meanwhile, elsewhere across the country, the general in charge is selling his book, and the Prime Minister is selling nuclear reactors to the Indians, who betrayed Canada in the first place and broke the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which we are now ignoring, and negotiating with the Chinese who he was once foolish enough to complain to about the fact that they are murdering Tibetans.

Ah Canada.   

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:02 AM

The old gal ain't what she used to be. It's getting worse. My mum turns 83 on Monday and the goings on bring anger and almost tears to her eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:10 AM

A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make much progress.
Honour and humility in conflict is as rare as rocking horse shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:39 AM

I like Canada and Canadians, and in some ways they out-shine us Americans. But not in all ways, and they are after all, imperfect humans.
In his book, Goodbye To All That Robert Graves reminisced about his experiences in WW I, and he found Canadians to be pretty cruel, although I don't remember his specific words. (I just googled it and it has to do with tales of atrocities against prisoners, pretty raw stuff for its time).

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:41 AM

This is the country that foisted Tim Horton's on an unsuspecting world!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM

Someone send for Bruce....he'll sort it out.

Bruce, could you write a song called 'The Corruption of Canada' for me, please?   And then, would you stand for Prime Minister at the next election and sort your country out. When you've finished setting yours to rights, could you do ours next?

We are in dire need of The Good Men and True around this planet...and I know that there are more good people than bad. It's just that, at the moment, the bad lot are in power because the good ones have turned away..

Turn back.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 12:11 PM

We haven't had a decent and honest PM since Trudeau and he was crapped on for telling the truth, labelled as arrogance.

Well, we had Chretien (yeah I know, he REALLY liked golf), whose only real goal seemed to be not doing anything bad OR good unless it got a vote, and Martin... but he never stood a chance (just like Manley)... another rich, arrogant...

Tommy, Pierre and the rest of your ilk... rise from the grave and lead us upon the path... sigh... I fear never again will we see such leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM

Canada should never have gotten involved in that unjustified war in the first place. Am I surprised at Canadian Forces complicity in torturing Afghans? No. Not surprised at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: bankley
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

so what,pray tell, was our horse high on ? fermented oats, BC bud, or maybe that black Mazar El Sharif Afghani hash, which some of our troops are bringing home.. so Harper/McKay accuse the accuser but it started well before they had the 'reins'... remember the Airborne in Somalia, or Mahar Arar's 'rendition' to Syria through RCMP complicity... that cost us millions.. this 'enhanced interrogation' is the effect of getting involved in Bush's war... we'd be in Iraq as well, if it weren't for the hugh demonstrations prior to the Coalition's Invasion of that country... did they find those nasty weapons yet ? Where is Bin Laden anyway ? and Karzai, now there's the model of democracy that we're paying to support in blood and spending.. high altitude quagmire anyone ? No, this is a dirty shooting war that we're bound to continue paying for as long as we're at the front... the average Joe might still believe in our ideals, but the reality on the ground and in the dark back rooms is another story... the sooner we wake up to that fact,and hold our leaders accountable, the better off we will be...
Meanwhile we've let the Torturer in Chief, GW Bush into this country 3 times on his lucrative speaking circuit... my friend Splitting the Sky will go to trail next March in Calgary for attempting to arrest Bush for war crimes... it'll be hard for the media to ignore since former US attorney general, Ramsey Clark and Cynthia McInney, among others, intend to testify for the defense... that's one of the things I like best about this country... when the little guy speaks truth to power...

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:50 PM

It's actually Shatner and a high Starship

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:21 PM

You're a bit late with the news, Peter:

"Canada's ugly antecedent is known as the Somalia affair: the 1993 torture and murder of a Somali teenager by Canadian airborne soldiers, and the culture of racism and brutality in the ranks that it exposed.

The Somalia revelations during 1994 and 1995 anguished the nation and traumatized the Canadian military. The perpetrators were court-martialed. But a military inquiry continues into the events surrounding the murder as well as the chain of command -- and what looks like a cover-up -- all the way to the Department of National Defense in Ottawa."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:03 PM

If Canada goes down that road there is no hope for any of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:13 AM

We've already gone. The only good that came from it was the disbandment of that airborne regiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: ollaimh
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:33 PM

canada had a long tradition of peace keeping.now we have only about 60 soldiers doing it.

the cretien government got into afghanistan because of our nato commitments,and they can'tbe ignored if we ever expect nato to help us in the future, but harpers conservatives decided to take a major combat role and ignor the torture of prisoners. these abuses were ignored several years ago at the highest level of the military and the government.the cons have just gone on a diatribe attack on the credibility of the diplomat who did reported this. this same diplomat e mailed eighty government people alerting them to the problem. and now he is the head of security for our washington embassy, so it is foolishness to asttack his credibility but it shows the ignorance ans stupidty of our present policy makers. i just themk god cretien stood up to american presure and didn't get involved in iraq. remember that harper made a major speach that we were betraying our allies by not going to iraq.

i think cretien and martin ran a good government. we had the best mannaged economy in the industrial world and reduced our debt left by the old conservative government.(they doubled our national debt in nine years). people forget what a good government they were because debt reduction isn't sexy. they aklso stopped out banks from merging and getting into subprime mortgages and other flaky derivitives that have shaken the world economy. no canadian banks or other financial instutions were in trouble because of it.

however the main issue is the conservatives have abonded our traditional peace keeping to join with their ideological partners in the neo con movement in america. they have also abonded climate accords and done nothing to push the tar sands industry to reduce green house gasses and to clean up their polution. that will be a nation breaker when albertan politicians find they can'tjust ignore the worlds green house gas emmissions.they will teeter on separation to avoid any federal control, orinternational control.

with the torture in afghanistan we should get out of attesting peoplenow,and get out of combat as soon as possible then out of the war in 2011. if canadians knew the prisoners would be tortured they should be tried for war crimes. and we should imediately demand reassdonable policies in afghanistan.the americans are so ignorant they have pushed the people away from the new government at every turn.

the place to start is to start buying the afghan poppy crop. for thirty million dollars or less we could buy the farmers support by giving them twice what the taliban pay them.then use the popies to make pain killers and distribute them free to poorer people and poorer countries for medical use.this wouldcost less than on day of fighting and win over the main taliban support.

americans are running the war like vietnam and that's how its going to end unless they start using their heads. the poppy proposalwas put forward by hundreds of leading university professors and intellectuals including severasl noble rize winners--but it is likely too logical for the ideologists who set american policy

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

It was obvious to me at the time (2003) that we entered Afghanistan with 2000 troops to free-up 2000 US troops to go to Iraq. (Recall that we refused to get involved in Iraq.) I don't doubt that the Chretien government--which ignored the advice of the military--caved in to Washington. Our military said we should keep out of Afghanistan. Well, we didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

All you commentators, please read this: Article by warden of Sarpoza Prison

It's very easy to criticize when you have no information except what the media feed you.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

Also, please keep in mind that it's a big war, and ours is a small task force with a lot to do. And Rome wasn't built in a day.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:56 PM

It took Rome over a thousand years to fall. It will take this present imperial order of Anglo-America a whole lot less than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 09:36 PM

Last time I checked, the Ottawa Citizen was media (crappy media, but media).

This article doesn't exactly inspire confidence that everything was just fine.....!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 07:09 AM

Few among the media are taking into account that they are probably being played -- as Colvin likely was -- in a Al Qa'ida and Taliban information operation. This is almost certainly classic "black" propaganda: fragments of it are true, and they are played up to discredit the target through fallacy.

Peter T. appears to have fallen into the trap that catches so many Canadians. Too many Canadians believe that what is reported on Faux Noise is representative of the attitudes and beliefs of U.S. citizens, and the actions of their government. Residents of the U.S. should be careful when it comes to giving credence to what they hear from the MotherCorp or read in the Mop & Pail.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:18 AM

And what about Lee Harvey Oswald and 9/11? When is that going to be blown open? It's really all about Mary Magdalene and the Cathars, as always.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 10:16 AM

It's not that bad, my Canuck friends, given the distance you still have to fall to get anywhere near the excesses of the Bush/Cheney gang, and come to that my own very disappointing crowd.

Just put the brakes on now, and you'll still smell a lot sweeter than them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:18 PM

some interesting figures regarding the opium trade

11% of the rural population in Afghanistan are growers..300,000 families.. so $30 Million would give them $100 each per family.. Last year they made around $1800 each... or approx.$560 million total.. big difference
$2.4 Billion was made by trafficers... another $62 billion is generated globally after it leaves the country...
Many of our allies from the Northern Alliance are some of the biggest trafficers...Druglords who were driven north by the Taliban in the late 90's.... seems like almost everybody's in on it, and of course the farmer who gets 10 times more for opium than wheat is at the bottom of the pay-scale....

I still think if you want to wipe out drugs, you have to improve reality

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:41 PM

Hmmm... I wonder what the figures are for the drug companies that supply OxyContin and morphine to Canuck Medicare?

Traffickers? Scalpers? Wipe out drugs? I think there is more than meets they eye in the drug trade. Like a lot of $. Just like petroleum.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:46 PM

"It's very easy to criticize when you have no information except what the media feed you."

It's also foolish to trust everything said by Ottawa. If we don't get information from the media, where then are we supposed to get it from?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

Media? Try Télévision de Radio-Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: gnu
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:11 PM

Hmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 10:44 PM

Naw, Canada is still on it's high horse ignoring human rights violations and slave labor when it is profitable and excoriating other countries that do care about human rights :

Sherritt of Canada pays the Cuban government $US 9,500 dollars per year per worker hired. In turn, the government pays workers the equivalent of $US 120 dollars per year in Cuban pesos! In other words, the government appropriates 98.7% of each workers wages. Meanwhile, the Castro government which is a severely repressive one, is able to stay afloat as a result of their ability to live off the spoils of their workers. Another aspect that must be noted in this relationship is that in Cuba their is one union that is controlled by the Cuban state. It is not one that is democratically elected rather, it is an arm of the repressive Cuban state. In Cuba today the notion of stikes do not exist, as they are officially illegal. Those who wish to partake in a strike are then entitled to a state founded housing allowence in one of Cuba's prisons. Thus Sherritt benefits, and henceforth takes advantage of a labour force that is compliant and technically free from insurrection.

The US embargo against Cuba does not permit any product that is totally or partially of Cuban origin from entering the United States. This means that the nickel and cobalt that is mines in Cuba and then further processed in Canada is bared from the United States. Canada which is the United States largest trading partner and NAFTA member has threated action. This has included Canada joining with the European Union in the WTO in an effort to fight the US law there.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:19 AM

Sawzaw, I suppose that you can document that load of CRAP!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,ollaimh
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:42 PM

the idea that canada's senior diplomat was a taliban dupe is mindless right wing propaganda. the canadian military and the conservative government thought that creating a series of levels of deniability was all that was neded. this approach insulated the top guys fro trouble but also from any good or creative ideas so they contintue the american anti insurgency program that is doomed to fail

even the present top of the mltary had to admit he lied to a parliamentary comitte yeaterday. he first said there were no torture reports then he came back and said opps we had one that conformed canadian military witnessing abuse of a prisoner then the report had a tag sayig"like we[ve seen often before".

a cover up solves nothing. helping torturing afghgans loses the support nesessay to win the war.

te real irony is if bysh had spent a third of what he spent in war on alternative energy america and canada would be off medeast oil and could forget about them.. but americanas made an idealogical decision tht oil was the future rather than actually spend money for their own people. they shoveled money to the oil company complex and the military contractors and ignored the real strctural problems with the american economy.

and here we are watching the north american ecnomy fall apart while indulging in the worst abuses throughout the world

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:56 PM

Well I can assure you it wasn't the American people, GW his cronies and the irresponsible elected official who lied their way into a war that us taxpayers can not afford. But you see, they disrespected his dad hence he was going to Iraq no matter what anyone said ... All insane , loss of so many lives and so many resources that could be used for good ..

We never learn, nor does the rest of the world ... And waterboarding isn't torture .. ya right, what a great example that was to the world . Thank God we have a new president with some sense in that regard

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:20 PM

gnu, I heard the other day that there's a lot more overdoses in Canada from Oxycontin than heroin.. the Feds will pressure the MDs to tighten up those prescription pads....

I wonder what's going to happen with the smack injection center in Van.. during the Olympics ? don't want the tourists wandering down around East Hastings too much. They might get a different impression of the 'snow games'.... "and now, Ladies and Gentlemen, all the way from Afghanistan....." welcome to BC, bud....

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 11:40 PM

What documentation do you require? Please provide your documentation that it is crap.

Try Googling Sherritt Cuba nickel wages

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:37 PM

First of all the Helms-Burton act is a piece of shit that should be a disgrace to the legislative bodies that passed it! Cuba and Canada have been friends for many years. If Cuba wants to develop its natural resources that is Cuba's business. Cuba has suffered for far too many years from economic bullying by the USA. Cuba's human rights record may not be a shining gem but it is a hell of a lot better than most other dictatorships in the Americas that the USA has propped up over the past 50 years! Canadian companies are as greedy and profit oriented as those south of the border but Cuba badly needs money to buy supplies that the US embargo has cut off. To an extent they do that through Canada and Helms-Burton is an attempt to punish Canada as well as Cuba. It is the hope of many in the international community that Obama will have the balls to mend fences with Cuba. I believe that his heart is there to do so if he is not obstructed by people believing so much of this propaganda like what Sawzaw has posted!
American media fueled by demands from exiles in southern Florida have been publishing lies and half truths for far to many years. If a lie is repeated often enough some idiots start believing it. That's why FOX News

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 11 Dec 09 - 10:39 PM

..............Exists!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 11:55 AM

What documentation do you require? Please provide your documentation that it is crap.

Cuba can trade with any other country they want too. So why do they whine about the US not wanting to trade?

"a hell of a lot better than most other dictatorships in the Americas that the USA has propped up over the past 50 years!"

Got any names to support your propaganda?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 12:18 PM

Sawzaw, your post shows that you have no knowledge of the rules of intellectual discourse. It goes like this. First, you make an assertion with no attribution. That is called a "gratuitous assertion". Then someone asks you to give some cites, or documentation, to back up your very broad, boldly asserted, "facts". What is your response? "Please provide your documentation that it is crap." No, son, when you make the assertion, it is up to you to document the source. Otherwise your "gratuitous assertion" can be just as gratuitously denied. See how it works?

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 04:34 PM

"Got any names to support your propaganda?"

First of all thanks Mick!
I do not want to seem to bash the USA, which in many ways is a country and people I dearly love and respect! Canada's legacy in international affairs at times in the past does not instill any great personal pride and today we are governed by a pack of arseholes! That being said I could never understand the American perspective regarding Cuba. I suppose that the name that comes first to mind is "Batista". For all of Castro's faults any thinking person could only see him as a vast improvement over this puppet of the Mafia. However the official policy of the USA denies this for rather strange political purpose and some fools still regard Batista as a hero! I will refrain from using many other examples but the "junta in Chile" can not be overlooked! That is only a starting point that has to be counterbalanced with all of the good that the USA does in this world. However, its record in Cuba is not stellar!
It is my deepest hope that in Obama you have elected a great leader who will change the world! However the idiots in congress and the senate who passed the Helms-Burton Act will no doubt stand in the way of progress!
Finally Sawzaw, I am sorry if I prejudge you as a person based on any data that you believe to be true and posted as such. It just dosn't pass the litmus test!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,Ebor_fiddler
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 05:49 PM

Round here we still remember the Canadian Bomber Crews who died for us (as well as leaving chewing gum stuck under their seats in the canteen, which was as hard as concrete when I tried to get it off 20 years later!) Up the Canucks!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Dec 09 - 07:04 PM

""Naw, Canada is still on it's high horse ignoring human rights violations and slave labor when it is profitable and excoriating other countries that do care about human rights :""

And you really believe that the US government which passed that legislation did so because it cared about the human rights of Cuban peasants, or for that matter anyone else?

You've gotta get off that weed bro, it's curdling your brain.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 12:52 AM

OK Pop.

I asked what kind of documentation was required and got no answer.

And please tell me Pop, why the Cuban government whines about the big, mean old USA when they can trade with any other country in the world they want too. Is trade with the US some sort of magic pill that will make things OK in Cuba? What does America have that they can't buy elsewhere cheaper? They don't have the money they need to buy the things they are too inept to make and they use the US as a straw man to blame their economic mismanagement on. Is there an embargo on food and medicine?

Keep in mind that it was the great humanitarian, JFK who started the Cuban embargo. Was he an asshole?

Bill Clinton expanded the trade embargo even further by ending the practice of foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies trading with Cuba. In 2000. Another asshole?

What are the rules of intellectual discourse in Cuba?
Here is a sample "Citizens can be and have been jailed for terms of 3 years or more for simply criticizing the communist system or Fidel Castro. Under the law of "dangerousness," citizens can be jailed for up to 4 years if a police official thinks that they show "anti-social behavior."

Citizens do not have the right to change their government.

In March 2003, the government carried out one of the most brutal crackdowns on peaceful opposition in the history of Cuba when it arrested 75 human rights activists, independent journalists and opposition figures on various charges, ranging from aiding a foreign power to violating national security laws. Authorities subjected the detainees to summary trials and sentenced them to prison terms ranging from 6 to 28 years. Amnesty International identified all 75 as "prisoners of conscience." As of August 2008, 55 of the original 75 prisoners remained incarcerated.

Would you like to live under this law Pop?

Pop, do you think it is OK for the Cuban government to keep almost all of the workers pay or do you believe it is propaganda?

"The venture pays the government about $790 a month for each worker --
competitive with wages elsewhere in the Caribbean. The state, in turn,
pays the workers anywhere from 125 to 540 Cuban pesos a month -- about $5 to $25 -- and keeps the rest. "

"Both investors and the Government benefit from the labour deal. The State acts as a broker supplying workers under contract to companies in the zones. Cuban workers are by Latin American standards highly trained and educated. They are also tightly controlled. Strikes are illegal. According to Silvia Castañer, workers in the free-trade zones will receive an average wage of 150-200 pesos ($6.50-$8.70) a month for a 51/2 day week. Investors negotiate wages with the Government from $1.10 to $6.00 an hour depending on the job. All the dollars end up in State coffers; the workers are paid in pesos. The Government can afford to give away the shop and it still comes out ahead."

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 01:09 AM

Official Canadian government info on weed:

  Short-Term Effects
  
  As THC enters the brain, users may feel anxious, euphoric, 'high' and/or fearful. Others may feel relaxed and talkative. Some people enjoy the perceptual distortions produced by cannabis; other people find these effects to be unpleasant. When first using cannabis, many people do not experience psychoactive effects (effects which affect the mind, mood or mental processes), but with repeated use they do.
  
  Short-term use of cannabis can produce many other effects:
  
      * red eyes
      * spontaneous laughter
      * drowsiness
      * increased hunger (often called "munchies")
      * mild paranoia, anxiety or panic
      * impaired reaction time, coordination and motor skills
      * impaired short-term memory
      * increased heart rate and decrease in blood pressure (may lead to fainting)
      * dry mouth and throat
      * irritation of the respiratory tract (with smoking)
  
  In addition, a person could potentially experience:
  
      * hallucinations (seeing something that does not exist)
      * pseudo-hallucinations (seeing colours or patterns that the user knows are not real)
      * paranoia
      * severe agitation
      * disorientation
      * abdominal pain
  
  On its own, cannabis intoxication is not lethal. However, cannabis interferes with concentration, perception, reaction time, and coordination. These effects impair a person's ability to drive safely (cars, boats, snow mobiles, etc) or operate any machinery.
  
  Alcohol and cannabis intensify each other's effects. Combined use may result in severe impairment.
  
  Cannabis, either alone or in combination with alcohol, is a factor in many injuries and unintentional deaths.
  Long-Term Effects
  
  Cannabis smoke irritates the respiratory passages. This can lead to bronchitis, especially if used regularly. Cannabis smoke has some of the same toxic substances that are found in tobacco smoke that can cause cancer.
  
  Frequent cannabis use affects motivation and concentration. It can interfere with school and job performance.
  
  Long-term heavy use may also precipitate psychosis or schizophrenia in individuals with a familial predisposition. Schizophrenia is a psychiatric disorder. People with schizophrenia lose touch with reality and may:
  
      * experience paranoia
      * have delusions [att: Bobert]
      * hallucinate
  
  Cannabis use can complicate the course and treatment of this disorder, for example it can enhance the symptoms of schizophrenia.
  
  Subtle learning problems have been reported in young children who were exposed to cannabis in the womb.
  Is Cannabis Addictive?
  
  It may be. Psychological dependence (addiction) to cannabis can develop with regular use and physical dependence may develop in individuals who use high doses daily. Individuals who have developed physical dependence may experience mild withdrawal symptoms if the drug is stopped abruptly.
  
  Cannabis withdrawal symptoms include:
  
      * craving
      * irritability
      * anxiety
      * loss of appetite
      * stomach discomfort
      * tremors
      * sweating
      * difficulty sleeping
  
  These symptoms may last for about a week but sleep disturbances may last longer.
  

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 05:19 AM

The Cdn Govt. also spent $5 million on an underground grow-op in Flin Flon... the weed was so crappy it had cancer patients puking and running back to the street dealers for the good stuff...

so much for Ottawa bureaucratic expertise on the magic herb, even tho the Senate recommended legalization a few years ago...
they could use it..

and now on to the snowboarding event...

my contribution to the 'war on drugs'.. is that I used to grow it and give it away... I haven't done that for awhile, but that's okay, there's lots of Afghani hash coming thru Trenton these days..

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 10:48 AM

First of all Sawzaw I am not your "POP"!
What is becoming more obvious is that you are nothing but a troll!
Therefore I have broken the Mudcat commandment "Don't feed the trolls!" For that I am sorry and I will respond to no more postings from Sawzaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 11:53 AM

So I am "son" but you are not "pop"? Blimey!

Launch an ad hominem argument and then call call the response a troll.

What a perfectly good reason not to answer pertinent questions.

Notice that I have not made any assertions about your character.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 03:15 PM

Sorry Sandy, it was Mick that claims I am his son.

You say "If Cuba wants to develop its natural resources that is Cuba's business."

If the Cuban government had the mental capacity, they could, Instead they allow corporations from other countries do the dirty work because the do not let any corporations to exist in Cuba.

Rather they "rent" their workers out to those corporations and keep the vast majority of their pay. They are entitled to do so just as they are entitled to jail anybody that complains about the shitty conditions that exist.

And the US government is entitled to place what ever sanctions it fells is necessary.

The Cuban government can't tax the people's income cause the poor bastards make just enough to survive.

Corporations are evil but The Cuban government can't survive without them. They found this out after they seized all of the assets of corporations when Castro took power. That is what the "piece of shit" Helms Burton is all about.

I have never been on weed and do not suffer the resulting delusions Don.

Who can explain the magic about Cuba having to trade with the mean old US? Is there a embargo on food or medicine?

Despite the embargo, the United States is the fifth largest exporter to Cuba. 6.6% of it's imports are from the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 03:56 PM

I've been in Cuba. I've also been in some other countries down that way. The average Cuban is considerably better off in many respects than the average person in those other countries, and for one reason only: because Fidel succeeded in his revolution and threw out that corrupt bastard, Batista...a dear friend of the Mafia and of American Big Business. The average Cuban was so much worse off under Batista that they can be very grateful to Fidel for launching his revolution.

It is not only the Cuban government that "can't survive" without cooperating to some extent with North American big business interests...no one else in this hemisphere can survive without doing it either, because the present trade system is RUN by North American Big Business. This does not indicate hypocrisy on the part of Cuba, it indicates that they are capable of dealing with reality as they must.

****

But quite aside from all that....are you ready for this?




KERRRRR-FLUMMMMPPPPPFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was the sound of Canada landing.... after that long and precipitous fall from its high horse. ;-)

When you have that far to fall, you land HARD.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:22 PM

Thought I'd throw a song into the mix. From Merle Haggard--and just to lighten the back-and-forth a tad.

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Dec 09 - 07:23 PM

Thought I'd throw a song into the mix. From Merle Haggard--and just to lighten the back-and-forth a tad.

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Canada falls off its high horse
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 20 Dec 09 - 08:33 AM

here's a quick interpretation of another Hag classic....

"We don't smoke marijuana in Muskogee,
We wait and take our trips out to BC
Who wants to be a stoner down in Oklahomer
It's a wasted buzz without the mountains and the sea

Pierre Berton showed Mercer how to roll one
and never burnt his lips on the CBC
Good ol Tommy Chong was busted for a bong
Barking US narcs just ain't a comedy

So I'd rather be a Canuck in Tuktoyaktuk
A place where even balls can end up square
Rompin' Ronnie Hawkins is coming to stuff our stockins
A Canajun Cannabis Christmas is in the air


just havin' fun.. is all    R.