BS: Gun Threads - Has one Cat changed their mind?

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Chet W.
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 08:48 PM

Kat, Yes indeed, Narcotics Anonymous, very like Alcoholics Anonymous, saved my dear friend's life. Hopefully to simplify what I was saying above, shouldn't we all be accountable for whatever we do that endangers others? Things like driving carefully and taking possession of a deadly weapon, hopefully legally, aren't these our responsibilities if and when we choose to do them? As for the law, in a perfect world we wouldn't need any because everyone would choose to accept their responsibilities (that's one of my versions), but seeing as how we've never had perfection and never will, shouldn't the law protect us from the negligent and those of bad faith? The legal system, like everything else, is far from perfect itself, but it's what we've got, and it can be made to work if we want it to bad enough. I have a hard time respecting an opinion that says "I will do this potentially dangerous thing and I will be careful, but I'll not accept all the responsibility if something goes wrong." I do try to keep my guitars out of the wrong hands.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 99 - 10:07 PM

Chet and RiB, thanks for the clarification. I should've know that. My best friend is into her third year of living, eally living, because of AA.

Chet, I absolutely agree with you. Drivers are sometimes just as bad and irresponsible and all should be held accountable. Thank you for a good and sensible voice!

katlaughing

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Fadac
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 10:43 AM

Chet, Are your guitars registered? After all, some people call them an AXE! (OhMYGOD!) And look at what Lizzy Borden did with an axe. (Just kidding.)

I wish there was some way to hold members of the leagle system responsiable for their actions. Like letting dangerous people out on little or no bail. There has been several cases in the past few years, where some nut goes and kills a group of people. Later we find out that the nut was on parole, or out on bail for some other vilont crime. Same way that drunk drivers alomst never kill anyone on their first offence. It is more normal for a DD to kill on his 10th time. This is where I think the Arabs have it right. 12 lashes with a cat-o-nine tails for 1st offence drunk driving.

Fadac

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Chet W.
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 07:08 PM

Fadac, my friend I hope, I would gladly register my guitars if it would do any good. In fact, in time of need, I expect that an alder-body Stratocaster would be better than a lot of other blunt objects. But seriously you can have an impact on judges, legislators and the whole slimy lot, especially on a local level, if you and enough like-minded people make it clear to them that they'll have to look elsewhere for their votes next time. My students, who are already in jail, have told me stories lately that baffled them, like about how somebody they knew got caught with a gun at school and was rewarded with some serious years behind bars, whereas just weeks ago, in the same school and the same court with the same judge, another kid got a slap on the wrist for the exact same offense. They don't understand it but I do. The tragedies in Colorado and Georgia finally woke some people up, and they are letting the politicians know what they want. I have known so few legislators with any personal integrity, but even in South Carolina they know pissed-off voters when they see them. (our judges are appointed by the legislature, so they are, indirectly but surely, in need of voter support). If we don't let them hear from us, they'll sure as hell listen to somebody else. And right now they are listening to people who are fed up with the whole violence and weapon wonderland that we've found ourselves living in. Also, most states are doing away with parole, so a convict will serve every day of his/her sentence, whatever it is. I think toughening up drunk-driving laws is more difficult precisely because so many of our lawmakers like to have a few themselves before driving home. Our day will come.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 12:17 AM

One time when I was about 12 yrs old, my twin sisters who were about 18 and I were at home overnight, alone. We and our dog heard someone out in the yard. We lived out in the country had all of the windows open as it was summer. We very loudly spoke of calling the police, which we did, then we lined up behind the dog and crept down the stairs. I think each of them had an old rifle, and I brought up the rear with dad's old six string guitar. We were gonna do some damage if we caught anyone, even though I am sure the guns were unloaded and we were all really scared. The police showed up couldn't find anyone. When dad and mom came home the next day they found all of the gas had been siphoned out of dad's welding rig. I am glad I had that guitar ready to smash over someone's head!

kat

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 12:33 AM

Good lord Kat! I hope it wasn't an antique Gibson or Martin. A harmony maybe, a Steel National - Yeah, they can do some damage.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Chet W.
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 12:35 AM

See?

Chet W.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: LEJ
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 08:26 PM

Kat...if you wreak half as much havoc with your guitar as I can with a meagre A key Blues Harp, you would have had them shakin in their boots. I have been known to physically eject scores of people from a room with my squealing impression of Little Walter.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jun 99 - 08:39 PM

Aw, Leej, I kin do that just dragging my hairy bow acrost da fiddle! Jist a lot o'caterwauling, ya ken wot I mean? LMAO!

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From:
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 08:00 PM

Chet, See, Guitars. Remember "El Kabong!"? My record is about two min. to clear a room with my concertina.

More trivia:

I have a bumper sticker on my car, it says" Pro Accordion and I vote." Stuck to the bumper sticker is the little sticker that they give you when you vote. It says' "I voted"...

Yup, if you really want to scare the pants off a politican, get a group together, and start printing voting leaflets. The Russians, at the height of the cold war, were more afraid of a xerox machine, than a machine gun. In fact xerox machines had to be registered and in securied locations.

What is begining to scare me a bit, is these very violent games. I have watched closely some of the playstatin stuff on TV. EGADS folks! These games make Itchy & Scratchy cartoons look darn right peacefull. Makes one wonder a bit, were the kids in Colorado surprised when they shot someone, that the person didn't sound like someone being shot in a video game?

Monday's comming.

Fadac

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Chet W.
Date: 06 Jun 99 - 08:17 PM

I've cleared my share of rooms with music. At one unforgettable party we were hired for the room cleared in about five minutes when we started to play. Seems they thought they were getting something else. They were so rude about it, though, that we kept playing long enough to fulfill our contract and get paid. Good points about the xerox machines and the games. I just hope we're not back to blaming only the games (they deserve a lot of blame to my mind) or blaming everything else except the superavailability of guns.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: 'Gun Threads' Has one Cat changed their mind?
From: Fadac
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 10:49 AM

Chet, No, I'm not trying to point at any one thing. It is easy to blame the obvious. However in the 1950's & 60's handguns were avabile by mail. If you could send in a check you could get the gun. I also remember seeing barrels (wood type) full of surplus rifles, with a price tag of $10-15 your choice. So I would say that firearms were much more accessable then than now. Some schools even had shooting clubs. Jr.NRA marksmenship, came under the athletic dpt. However, I don't remember hearing about anyone taking a target rifle and shooing their kinfolks. I may have happend, but I don't remember hearing about it.

Of course that was then, this is now. It is too complext a problem to point to anyone thing and say that is the cause of all our problems. Avaiblity of firearms as a contrubiting factor? Perhaps, but firearms are way less avaible now than ever before in history. (for the USA anyway.)

In MHO, (my humble opinion), there are many factors pressing down on us. Here are some factors to consider:

1. TV Violance is down, there are guide lines for that now.

2. Divorce rate is way up, The family structure is falling apart at the seams. (Here in Ca. it takes two incomes to afford a stupid apartment.)

3. At the very bottom end, well I hate to say it, but I have seen it with my own eyes, welfair pays for babies out of wedlock. So sometimes you have 13 year old girls having babies so they can get more money. (I hope I don't get flamed for this paragraph, but I lived near Chicago, and you would see reports on TV of this happing. A friend of mine used to deliver the surplus food, and told me stories that would send shivers down your spine.) I only bring this up, to show that this generates disfunctional familes.

4. Then there is the avaiblity of Drugs, and the huge profets from there sales. So you have gangs battling over "turff'

5. The schools have turned to crap. The teachers can't teach, because their hands are tied by impossable regulations.

6. You can't hire kids to work any more. (I used to work in a gas station at the age of 9-14, part time, sometimes only for a day job to get some money for a show.)

7. Perhaps we just have too much stuff. Some folks find it strange that I'm willing to take three to five years to learn to play an accordion. The concept of working today and getting the reward much later, is being lost on some people.

8. Guns are NOT as avaible as in the past. (Yes I said that but I wanted it on this list.)

Well, thats a short list of what I think are some of the causes of our shooting problems. I think this leads to other problems too, but this is a gun thread.

So I don't think you could solve the probem with any of the above, I think they all have to be addressed, somehow.

Oh dear, I have rambled on...again.

Happy Monday.

Fadac