BS: Water -our next war?

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 09:56 PM

...and just by chance, there is a program running right now on public TV about the world-wide problems of over fishing. The average Swordfish catch has declined from 200-300 lb. fish to 90 lb. fish, and they are having to go much farther out to find any. Fishermen from Europe are now fishing off Africa because they can't make a living near Europe any longer.

...and so it goes....

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:47 PM

Given enrgy and water, there is almost nothing that cannot be handled. Growing self-sufficient crops and livestock requires land, which is already present, and water and energy to empower cultivation.

Once those hurdles are met everything else follows.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 02:33 AM

water and energy to empower cultivation, yes, but the land required to graze livestock is not environmentally sustainable.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Boab
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 03:39 AM

An over-generalisation, Dianavan. Perhaps you are looking at livestock-grazing thro' North American eyes. The British Isles is anarea of high-density population, yet the import of meat products from the Americas is minimal. Much of the beef industry depends upon cattle-raising on land which is by and large unsuitable for the intensive cultivation which is necessary for food growing. Likewise sheepfarming is predominantly an industry of hill country and moorland. The hill farms are "sustainable" in the environmental sense, although the economics of hill farming is something else---it's a hard life, and doesn't turn out too many millionaires! Many farms in the more fertile areas tend to be managed in a "rotation" system. This applies mostly to dairy producers, who will graze dairy herds on "fallow" land for some seasons, while "rotating" the remainder growing food crops and fodder. It is a very odd farm which isn't self-sufficient in water supply---although this is more and more affected by climate change. The "water-guzzlers" are almost 100% mass-producing industries [and that WOULD include monster hydroponic growers]. That being so, strife over water supply--given the acquisitive nature of much of our "free enterprise"---seems inevitable. Overpopulation has been referred to. Greed as an added ingredient will almost surely lead to strife. Sad; we DO learn, but do enough of us really care?

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:01 AM

Has anyone not noticed the insidiousness of the bottled water industry? They have got us shunning tap water and paying mucho $$ to drink it from a bottle. For one thing, at least in the US, or most of the US, anyway, what comes from the tap is as good as anything out of the bottles. And it also has fluoride to help fight tooth decay. (Yes, this is a GOOD thing.)

Furthermore, it doesn't need an expensive delivery system (train and truck), and it doesn't disgorge millions of pounds of plastic to fill the landfills. And another thing, does anyone not also know that those self-same bottles are made from, guess what? Petroleum! See other threads for discussions of THAT shortage.

What has this to do with water being the cause of war? Dunno. There's probably a connection that I haven't made due to insufficient blood/caffeine level. But rather than working on convincing millions of third-worlders that they need water from bottles, we should focus more energy on finding ways that they can have locally based water supplies that they don't need to keep buying from some multi-national. Kind of like the old baby formula issue.

BTW, do you know that it takes approx. 3,500 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef? Interesting "food" for thought. Mother nature wants us to eat more lower on the food chain and not populate the earth beyond its capacity to support us AND her other children.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:35 PM

Bill D noted the water problem in the US West back in 2004. I've also read that northern California has a pretty strong tendency to resent Southern California-- strong enough to talk secession. Top reason--exploitation of northern California's water resources by southern California.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:58 PM

With global warming, the glaciers are melting and the water is nearly overflowing the dams in B.C.

Now we know why nobody wants to do anything about global warming.

They want the water!

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:02 PM

Northen California should rest easy; when the glaciers come down, we will be glad to share our supply of sand with THEM.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:15 PM

Touche, Amos. (where's that accent?)

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: pdq
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:47 PM

Cadillac Desert, the PBS mini-series documentary, should be mandatory viewing for all students and most adults in the US. I don't believe PBS will be airing it anymore as their website dedicated to the film is closed. The four episodes can be had for about $80.00 on DVD or VHS tape. To rich for my blood, but still believe it to be one of the best PBS efforts I have seen after This Old House, Crockett's Victory Garden and Antiques Road Show.
A definitive effort about water, power and politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 06 - 08:22 AM

Boab

"Perhaps you are looking at livestock-grazing thro' North American eyes"

And of course, we have made that mistake in Australia too. Except in the areas where you can only graze one beef cow to the acre - and there's bugger all water there anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 May 06 - 12:18 PM

When you come down to root causes, almost all wars are caused by resource control issues---They got it, we want it. [And yes, that includes the crusades. Look it up in Richardson's "The Statistics of Deadly Quarrels.] Iraq, of course is the exception. We really wanted to help those poor, misgoverned people over there to get rid of an evil dictator.

There were and are many people equally misgoverned who live in countries with few, if any, significant resources. We don't go out of our way to rescue them from their plight.

As far as water goes, we have reached the point where it is possible to clean water, either by reverse osmosis or chemically at a very low cost. It takes a lot of energy, but solar power is now efficient enough to do the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 06 - 08:06 PM

"We really wanted to help those poor, misgoverned people over there to get rid of an evil dictator"

You mean it had NOTHING to do with 710?
(can't say it out loud in this democratically free country - don't want to get mistaken for a terrorist!)