What is the Irish National anthem?

Subject: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Charcloth
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:21 PM

I just realized I didn't know what the Irish National anthem was can any body tell me. BTW what is Canada's also?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:28 PM

Irelands Natonal Anthem is " The Soldier's Song" written by Peadar Kearney or Peadar O cearnaig. It was the rallying song of the patriotic forces during the struggle for Irish freedom which marked the years 1916 - 1921. The air is stirring but is not OLD IRISH MUSIC. The air was composed by Padraig O hAonaig.

The Canadian Anthem is "Oh Canada", I believe that at one time it was "The Maple Leaf Forever" by Alexander Muir but I am not sure about this. I don't know who wrote Oh Canada.

jimmy

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:38 PM

Well I thought it was a commitee effort but it turns out that the english words are a translation. Here is a whole page about the song.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Feb 01 - 11:42 PM

And damn it all to heck I didn't get the blue clicky thing. I'll try again, by the way I'm talking about the Canadian Anthem I don't know much and haven't found anything yet about the Irish one. I hope if you click this you'll get to the right page.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 12:28 AM

The definitive answer: Republic of Ireland National Anthem in Gaelic and English

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 03:13 AM

There's a current fury going on about some other song being played as the Irish National Anthem at foreign rugby matches - a bit baffling why anything else should be played, but apparently some mistake has been made.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 03:27 AM

No mistake JTT. The Soldiers Song is the Anthem of the REPUBLIC of Ireland.
However, the Irisg Rugby team represents ALL of Ireland (Republic + Northern Ireland)
Apparently there was come concern from the Northern Ireland part of the alliance about the singing of the Republic's Anthem. Cheers Eddie.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 06:44 AM

I was doing a session in New York with Brian Conway a few years ago. There was a tap-tap-tap on my shoulder and there stood a middle-aged, somewhat inebriated American man. He asked me to sing "The Soldier's Song." I don't know all the words so I asked Brian to play it on the fiddle. He said he would and we launched into it at the unusual time of 11:15PM.

It was the busiest hour of the night and money was flying across the bar and the 2 bartenders were raking it in. But this was a very Republican bar with a 50% native Irish clientle so everything stopped when "The Soldiers Song" was played. The bartenders stood at attention and the non-Irish crowd got the idea something profound was happening and quieted down too. No one asked why a national anthem was being played halfway into the night and 5 hours before the bar closed.

After the playing stopped, everything returned to normal in a matter of seconds and it was just after that I got the tap-tap-tap again and my American friend asked for "The Soldiers Song" once more. A little miffed, I told him we'd just played it. "No, no," he said, "my name is O'Hanlon. I'm just gone sixteen."

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: alison
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:26 AM

I don't know if they are still doing it... but at the last Irish rugby match I saw on TV.. which was a while ago.... they sang "Ireland's call"(????).... which I think they may have sung in addition to the "Soldier's song"........ (New Zealand does a haka (bound to be spelt wrong to frighten their opponents..... Ireland sings to charm theirs.....*grin*)

as someone else said "The Soldier's song" is the anthem for the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland's is "God save the queen"............ prefer the tune to the soldier's song myself...........

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Fiolar
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:09 AM

To Liam's Brother. Apparently what your Yank wanted was "The Patriot Game" written I believe by Brendan Behan's brother.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: death by whisky
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 10:43 AM

Part of a line in the rugby song goes"Shoulder to Shoulder,..." Q.Do you knowThe Soldiers song?" A.do you mean the Shoulder song.. Q Have you been drinking? A do you play rugby? P.S Condolonces to Wales.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Seany
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 11:27 AM

At rugby matches an additional song is played as well as the national anthem.

'Ireland, Ireland, ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? , Shoulder to shoulder, Together holding strong ' or something like that - anyone know the rest ?

This has been happening for quite a few years now.

As far as I can tell it is only the Irish that get away with having two songs. Everyone else just gets their national anthem.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Brakn
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 11:42 AM

A couple of links.

Ireland's Call

Soldier's Song - Phonetic

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Manitas
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 02:01 PM

'Shoulder to Shoulder'

It sounds like the song that starts 'We're on the one road' (which I think is the title) and ends 'Singing the Soldiers Song!'

It used to be sung by a band at the Archway Tavern in Holloway to finish their gigs because the management thought The Soldier's Song was a bit sensitive. There was a lot of bombs going off in London at that time.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 02:19 PM

The English don't get to have a national anthem, because there isn't an English national anthem. They tend to play God Save the Queen for want of anything more appropriate. You'll Never Walk Alone gets more people singing, maybe they should adopt that.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 02:20 PM

Manitas,
The song " On The One Road" does end with " singing the soldier's song" I don't know what is sung at rugby matches.
When we were ever asked to sing the Soldier's Song in a pub we refused, unless it was the last number played. An anthem " (any anthem) is more than a song, it should be held in higher esteem than just another song, that is why we would not sing in it the middle of a show, According to etiquette is is also a sign of disrespect to applaud an anthem. At the end of an anthem there should be just silence, I get annoyed at hearing applause at most sporting events before an anthem is even finished. I also feel that an anthem should also be sung with respect, and not changed to a pop/lazz/blues/rap or whatever the singer wants, otherwise it is being treated just like a song and it should be held in higher esteem than that, Does this makes sense or am I just rambling without being clear about what I mean. ?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Greyeyes
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 02:42 PM

Scotland sing "Flower of Scotland" before rugby internationals, which is not the national anthem.
As an England fan it would seem more appropriate to me if all the home nations adopted the policy of singing a patriotic song of choice before games. It is clearly inappropriate for any team to sing "God Save the Queen", and "the Soldiers Song" throws up problems as has already been explained.
"Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" has been adopted as the anthem of English Rugby crowds, but it is hardly patriotic. Land of Hope and Glory might suit.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Charcloth
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 04:34 PM

Thank you one & all

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,colwyn dane
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 08:32 PM

Hi,

The talk about UK entities not having their own anthem brings to mind the occasion when the Commonwealth Games
were last held in Canada; a Northern Irish boxer had won a gold medal and after the medals had been presented
the 'anthem' - on record or tape - of the winning boxer's country couldn't be played for some technical reason.
So after some frantic conferring the N.I. team doctor climbed into the ring and taking the microphone gave, with great feeling, a rendition of "Danny Boy".
The TV camera zoomed in on the Irish boxer and he was so obviously overcome by emotion that I'm sure he didn't see a thing as his tears were everywhere.
Thunderous applause from a great Canadian audience.
A wonderful sporting moment.

I believe that Barry McGuigan's father used to sing in the ring after Barry's fights.
Rinty Monaghan - world flyweight champion - used to sing after his winning? contests "Irish eyes are smiling"

Colwyn.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: alison
Date: 08 Feb 01 - 09:44 PM

I saw that Colwyn.. that was a right few years ago now.... there were tears rolling down my face too (and I'm not a fan of "Danny boy" usually)..........

the tape didn't work and the fella climbed into the ring and started to sing.. and the whole room sang with him...... and when they hit the high note for him.. he thanked them................ great sporting moment in my book........

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 04:03 AM

A friend(?) once gave me a cassette tape "Here you are Mike you're half Irish, thought you'd appreciate this" He had recorded 55 versions of Danny Boy (first verse only). He didn't want it back.

Mike

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 06:24 AM

Kevin Myers, writing in The Irish Times, suggested a few months ago that There Is An Isle should be played.

Both Myers and Sean Kilfeather have been writing on this; go to www.ireland.com and down to the left of the page and click on Archive Search, and search for "there is an isle" (without quotes) and you'll find some of the articles. Interesting stuff.

But still, surely a team playing for Ireland should have the Irish national anthem?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Brendy
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 06:41 AM

Oddly enough, Jimmy, there were places we played in, in the North of Ireland during the late 70's/early 80's, where if Amhrán na bFiann was going to be sung at all, we would sometimes be asked to sing it as the very first song.

There was some feeling that the respect the song deserves would not adequately be afforded it, were it to be sung by a drunken audience.

I can see this argument as well, and, in a way, can agree with the thinking.
I must say, though, there is always something 'final' about singing it at the end of the night. There were absolutely no more encores, and as such, the gig had a definate end. But I certainly wouldn't sing it, either in English, or as a 'Polyfilla job' in the middle of a set, somewhere. Only at the start, or at the end of a night.

B.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: alison
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 08:27 AM

Jsut as a matter of interest.. was it played in discos / clubs/ cinemas at the end of the night the way "God save the queen" was in the North (well I assume not all parts of the Norht... *grin*)?......

just wondered..... there were some discos in Belfast where the DJs were threatened if they didn't play it at the end of the night.. always seemed an odd way to finish a disco to me......

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 08:37 AM

Guest JTT you say "But still, surely a team playing for Ireland should have the Irish national anthem? "

The point is that the Irish rugby team is an all-Ireland team drawn from the Republic and the North, and you would have to have both anthems or neither.

A similar situation would be a "North America" team drawn from the US and Canada. What anthem would you play then without dissing atleast some player and fans?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: sophocleese
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 09:04 AM

Well that's a project for mudcatters, come up with a medley of two anthems and see what you sense you can make blending the lyrics.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: English Jon
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 09:38 AM

Slight thread hijack:

Is a Nation a political body, a landmass, a group of people who live on that landmass, a group with a common religion? This obviously has a bearing on the meaning and sybolism of a National Anthem. It amazes me how "God save the Queen" has varying marked effects on different people, and it's not actually a terribly good tune or lyric, but it obviously has deep associations.

This is interesting to me, as I don't feel that God save the Queen is particularly "English" any more than it is Scots, Welsh, Irish etc... I appreciate that it's supposed to be British and vaguely all encompassing... I've always felt that "Jerusalem" would have been a better choice.

My Granny always sings "God save our old Tom Cat". Which to me shows a healthy disregard for patriotic fervour. But then, I don't know much about politics/modern history etc, so a lot of the importance of these songs kind of passes me by.

Cheers. Jon

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 10:16 AM

Brendy, Exactly right, we would only sing it at the end, and only in places like "The Irish Centre" in Toronto. I always objected when asked to sing it in a pub. I honestly do not think a national anthem such as" The Soldiers Song" "God Save The Queen " Oh Canada" etc should be played in a pub. Pubs are for songs,and an anthem is not a "SONG" as such. Anthems should be for International sporting events, State functons, the end of a night t.v. broadcast maybe or at the end of a musical evening in ethnic halls, Legion halls etc. Singing any anthem in a pub setting is bringing it down to the same level as " Wild Rover" , 'Paddy McGinty's Goat" " Knees Up Mother Brown " etc and I believe an anthem deserves more respect.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 10:23 AM

Aye Alison, in my days of visiting the esteemed nightclubs in the vicinity of the Border it got played at the end of the evening. I had as much interest in singing it as I did in singing "God Save The Queen (i.e. none), but in both cases mouthing the lyrics is easier than getting your head kicked in.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 11:47 AM

Theres a bit of a debate going on just now in Ireland about the suitability of the Soldier's Song for National Anthem, the argument against being that it is outdated and too militaristic. I think the anthem should be changed. Any irish citizen should be allowed to nomiate, or write, any song and then let the electorate vote for their favourite in a referendum which could be rerun every 50 years or so. My own nomination is Oro Se Do Bheatha 'Bhaile, aka, Doro Feinne (The Warrior's Chant). Nothing brings out the Irish in me like this song, of course it wouldn't win as it's too militaristic! Anyone know the background to this song, when,who composed, etc. I've seen it attributed to both Seamus Mahon (who is he?) and Patrick Pearse. I love the Soldier's Song but not as National Anthem.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: wes.w
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:10 PM

As he pulled me (English) to my feet at the end of a session in Ballyvaughan, County Clare where I'd been standing in for the bands absent guitarist, a lovely 70 year old concertina player called Mick Currucan told me with a grin on his face that the Irish National Anthem was used by the Republicans for picking out the Brits, since they wouldn't know when to stand up.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:15 PM

Big Tim - you know what'd happen. It'd end up like the bloody Eurovision Song Contest all over again, and we'd be left with some Corrs-sounding wishy-washy bland and insipid warble by a couple of girls waering next to nothing and looking in need of a good feed!

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:47 PM

But it would be democratic!

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 12:50 PM

Hmmm, yes. Sometimes democracy just ain't fair!

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 03:32 PM

Big Tim, I have to agree with you that an anthem should be changed every so often to keep abreast of the national feelings. I like your first choice, Pearse wrote that one, he took the idea from a north of Ireland song "Searlas Og" about Bonny Prince Charlie.

I don't know " The Warriors Chant" but it sounds promising. I have always thought that "The Minstrel Boy" would be a good one.

The way it's going over there sooner or later they will need a new one that appeals to all the population of a united island.

Regards

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Feb 01 - 04:03 PM

Peadar Kearney in 1937 wrote an extra verse of The Soldiers Song specially with the North in mind:

And here where Eire's glories bide
Clan London fain would flourish;
But Ulster-wide, what e'er betide
No pirate blood shall nourish.
While flames the fier of Con and Owen,
While Cave Hill guards the fame of Tone,
From Gullion's Slopes to Inishowen
We'll chant a Soldier's Song.

I wobnder, does it get sung at all?

It's my feeling that giving up The Soldier's Song as the National Anthem would be a step too far for many people, and probably most. I imagine it'd probably need a referendum, and I think it would be a horribly divisive one. And if by any chance the vote went to change it, that wouldn't stop people singing it - in fact it'd probably make more of them learn the words.

At a session in Cahir in Tipperary I go to when I'm there, which I haven't been for a couple of years, when it's time for the evening to end, the fella running it just gives a nod, and all the musicians strike up The Soldier's Song. Noone sings it, just play a verse and chorus, and everyone stands up, and no arguments, the evenings over and its time for home. I've often thought it's be really handy if we had something like that over in sessions in England - but it certainly couldn't be God Save the Queen. Maybe "Speed the Plough"...

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 10 Feb 01 - 03:20 AM

Ah yes, "it would be democratic". I was talking to a Californian last night in Dublin, and he was telling me about how southern California stole northern California's water.

"The whole state voted," he said - this is back in the 1930s - "and there were more southern Californians than northern Californians. So they got to steal our water, and we got to help pay for it."

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 03:37 PM

once again it is demonstrated that 'blue clicky links' are endangered species. Sorcha's definitive answer above is no longer active, as are many such links in the database, but that is an issue for discussion elswhere.

My point about the National Anthem of Ireland is this:

The official anthem adopted in 1926 is ONLY the Chorus of the song.

The entire three verses & chorus were written by Peadar Kearney in English in 1896 & 1907 and first published in 1912, with a later verse added by Kearney in 1937.

Many differents translations were made into Irish afterwards, including the one by Liam O'Rinn which became the 'official' translation, first published in 1925.

Since that time there have been other translations from the various Irish versions back into English, which allows for the variants in the English lyrics seen on the web.

Maybe an Irishman can tell us if the proclamation adopting the Anthem in 1926 calls it 'A Soldier's Song' or 'Amhrán na bhFiann' or both. I know Official documents are supposed to be in the Irish language, with English translation, which I assume is the case here, even though the original lyric was written in English.

Any facts?

The melody which to which it is sung is by Patrick Heeney from 1907 or so.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: DonD
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 08:54 PM

I seem to remember that A Soldier's Song was chosen as the anthem of the Republic as the result of a popular vote, and I suspect that those who voted for it never had tried singing it. The repeated run from B-flat up to D is as difficult for most amateurs as the range of the Star Bangled Banner.

Incidentally, the runner up in the competion was apparently 'O'Donnell Abou" which features the immortal lines: 'Make every Saxon feel Erin's avenging steel!'

And those who are concerned with the proper respect to be shown an anthem haven't watched an American baseball game, where the fans are urged to "honor America by joining in the singing of the National Anthem'. Then a pop star gets up and bawls a blues, jazz, funk or rap version. When the cheering starts somewhere around 'a rocket's red glare' it's a blessing!

I think 'O Canada' is great!!

My Lions Club starts every meeting patriotically with the Pledge of Allegiance and the singing of -- well, we're not about to be challenged by that unsingable anthem, so we warble 'America' -- commonly known as 'My country 'tis of thee' to that nice simple singable tune of 'God Save the Queen/King'.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Hillheader
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 09:16 PM

Guys,

What about "The Soldiers Sash"???

How ecumenical can you get?

Davebhoy

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 11:52 PM

My dad was in Dublin as a tourist in the 30s. One night he went to a movie. As he described it, before the picture started thew whole audience stood up and BELTED the national anthem. Incidentally, the proper name for "Danny Boy" is "The Londonderry Air". Londonderry is in Northern Ireland, so it was very appropriate.
I have distant relatives in Londonderry who keep a grocery shop. Just out of curiousity, are there any other Londonderry McFalls out there?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 07:12 AM

I think the The fields of Athenry should be the Irish national Anthem.
Because it's a nice song, and doesn't really offend anyone.
Unlike the soldiers song, which offends protestants.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 07:22 AM

I forgot to tell that I'm not a protestant, however I am a christian.
Jut in case anyone says anything About me.
I don't find the song offenceve in the lest, however there are certain people who do.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: boglion
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 04:14 PM

The professional sessions in the area of Kerry I disappear to three or four times a year are almost always ended with the Soldier's Song.

This is then followed by the UNOFFICIAL session which begins as soon as the musicians start packing their gear.

Terry

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 04:41 PM

And a sound bollocks to Phil Coulter for composing "Ireland`s Call", we have to wait through this wishy washy pop song and two National Anthems, before each Irish home game.
There is only one National Anthem that deserves playing time, and that is the Welsh Anthem, a musical experience when it is performed before a Rugby International at at the Welsh National Stadium. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 11:23 AM

Ray Bradbury wrote a nice short story called the Anthem Sprinters.
Check it out. It's in a collection of short stories dealing with Ireland, where he was screenwriter for John Huston's film Moby Dick which was being filmed there. 'Beggar on O'Connell Bridge' is another great one in the collection.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 01:44 PM

Seems to me that a lot of national anthems are sectarian and/or god bothering crap about showing your arse to another nation. My vote would be to stop singing them but I suppose they will persist as long as patriotism is perceived as a good thing.

As for an English anthem, I agree with Billy Connoly's suggestion of adopting the theme from the Archers without words, just the dum-te-dum-te-dum-te-dum and an impassioned rum-te-tiddely rum-te-tum at the chorus. Easy to remember, inoffensive and jolly good fun.

And in answer to the original question (partly) Canada has two official anthems, O Canada and God Save the Queen.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 02:20 PM

"The repeated run from B-flat up to D is as difficult for most amateurs as the range of the Star Bangled Banner."

Which bit would that be, DonD? (Since like any song it can be sung in all kinds of keys, so B-flat to D" doesn't really identify it.) I don't think many people have much trouble with the tune.

For that matter the Star Spangled Banner is easy enough if it's in a sensible key. It's the kind of song where it's just a matter of having the courage to go for it, and not being shy about it.

I can't see how the Soldier's Song is in any way anti-Protestant. It doesn't mention religion at any point. If people want to get offended they can get offended at anything, including the Fields of Athenry (with its line about rebelling against the Crown.)

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 03:01 PM

I cannot be sure, but I guess Don means the run-up in the before last line just before 'We'll chant a soldier's song'. When I learned the tune this was the bit that gave me difficulties. Not so much the range, but some unexpected intervals.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: diesel
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:19 AM

Sorry Ladyjean
Your ref:

"Incidentally, the proper name for "Danny Boy" is "The Londonderry Air". Londonderry is in Northern Ireland, so it was very appropriate."

That is exactly what is inapprpriate, Londonderry is what London call Derry, it is in Northern Ireland, which is why it should be called Derry (which by the way is an angicised version of the Irish 'Doire')

Maybe I give away too much of my sentiments - If the blue clicky link above doesn't work try these address's ;

www.gov.ie
OR
http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/viewitem.asp?id=254&lang=ENG

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: The O'Meara
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:55 AM

Many years ago I worked for a republican congressman in Virginia. He was voted out of office during the backlash from the Nixon debacle, thus putting us both out of work. But during his 22 years in congress the only bill he introduced was one declaring that the Star Spangled Banner must always be played and sung in A flat.

Should have kept him on.

O'Meara

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:46 AM

A-flat sounds about the right key. But I can't see how having a law like that would be consistent with the phrase "land of the free"...

My impression is that a lot of people who would never dream of calling Derry Londonderry generally would prefer that form for the tune used for Danny Boy (ansd a few other songs as well). Somehow "The Derry Air" sounds like something you'd sit on.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:12 PM

McG, God Save the Queen can indeed be rendered in any key, but is actually in G, as surely as Bach's toccata and fugue in D minor is in D minor. I would guess that military bands and professional orchestras play the Soldier's Song in whatever key it was written and that this key was chosen with communal singing in mind.

LadyJean, Danny Boy is the name of a song sung to the Londonderry Air. And as Diesel pointed out, you must be careful - your protestant roots are showing. In practice many protestants call the place Derry simply because Londonderry is such a mouthful, and hang the politics. (Obviously politicians and others trying to make political points are more careful.)

When catholic supported/supporting parties took control of the city council in 1984 (after years of gerrymandering that had kept unionists in power) they changed the council's name from Londonderry to Derry. But the city had been incorporated as Londonderry during the reign of James I, and the council had no power to change that. Before 1613 it had been Derry, as Diesel said - an anglicised version of Doire, meaning (I think) a copse of trees.

The BBC, among others, takes a neutral line, alternating between the two names. During the 1980s a Northern Ireland radio journalist, Gerry Anderson, renamed the town Stroke City, when he got tired of saying "Londonderry-stroke-Derry." It caught on for a while, but seems to have fallen out of use.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 04:11 PM

Fionn you have got it "ass about face", what the man said was, Derry stroke Londonderry, or as Ian Paisley says" LONDONDERRY STROKE LONDON DERRY". Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:02 AM

So we should all have national anthems which don't offend anyone? That should be fun.

Derry/Londonderry is known in Irish as Doire Cholm Cille - St Columbkill's Oakwood, or possibly St Columbkill's Church, as Doire usually refers to a holy oakwood, and these were usually taken over by the Christians as their holy sites.

Doire is pronounced (roughly) Dirruh, which in English became Derry.

At some stage this was transmuted to Londonderry when a bunch of Londoners came in, as I understand, ushered by one or another English royal eager to improve Ireland by making it more English with the help of 'planters' - English, Welsh or Scottish settlers moved on to land confiscated from Irish owners.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:43 PM

McG, God Save the Queen can indeed be rendered in any key, but is actually in G, as surely as Bach's toccata and fugue in D minor is in D minor.

I don't think I agree there. The analogy with Bach's toccata would be a particular arrangement of the tune, which would indeed have a correct key. And no doubt the main official arrangement of God Save the Queen for state occasions is in G major.

However a different arrangement - whether that was a formally composed arrangement, or an informal one by some people singing in a pub would still be recognisably the same tune even in a different key. (Of course maybe that last might be more likely to happen to The Soldiers Song)

I note from a book of National Anthems I picked up in a library sale (which does indeed have God Save the Queen in G) that The Star Spangled Banner is given as in Bb - no wonder people complain about it being hard to sing. I think The O'Meara's boss had a point.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM

I've never noticed anyone having the slightest difficulty in singing Amhrán na bhFiann - the Irish national anthem.

Incidentally, for Munster fans, here's
There is an Isle sung by the crowd - definitely a three-hanky job for anyone with a heart in his breast.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 08:16 PM

A sight harder to sing that one than the Soldier's Song. But they had a good crack at it anyway. Where's that from?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,C.H.
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 09:52 PM

In my youth, while touring Ireland (up & down) with plays, at the end of the sound effects tape (reel to reel) we had about a yard of stop-foil followed by a foot each or red, white & blue leader followed by "God Save The Queen" followed by another yard of stop-foil, then a foot each of green, white & yellow leader followed by "The Soldiers Song". It helped to remember which side of the border you were on! (apart from that it made no difference - but that was in the early '60s, after the last and before the current troubles)
C.H.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 06:19 AM

McG of H

Limerick!

Regards

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 05:07 PM

There is an isle!


Regards

p.s. No idea how long that link may last - copy the text?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM

Interesting. It does have a Scottish feeling about it. The same you get with Folower of Scotland.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 03:48 AM

Back in the 70s, the Irish National Anthem sung at the end of sessions in Irish clubs (in England) was almost always in English. When did it change to Irish?

As for t'other one, the start of the chorus sounds so much like Leon Rosselson's 'Coats Off For Britain' that it's almost self- satyrising to me.